HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Hamrlik has refused 1 yr offer. (post #363)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-28-2011, 11:28 PM
  #101
Toro
Registered User
 
Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,756
vCash: 500
If Hammer is retained Spacek needs to go and the Wiz signed.

Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:30 PM
  #102
Markowicz
Simple Jacques
 
Markowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think if that happens, and we also re-sign Wiz or another top PMD on open market, it means Gauthier will be packaging something along the lines of Spacek+Weber.
I don't see how we could start with 9 Dmen of that caliber on our team.
I just find it counter productive to sign Wiz as well. Why force yourself to trade Weber when he might end up being really good (and cheap) for awhile? In the salary cap era, you have to hang on to your cheap young players as long as humanly possible in hopes that they flourish. I am the only one here who saw Weber transform into a good, confident player in the last couple of months of the season?

Markowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:32 PM
  #103
Maxpac
Registered User
 
Maxpac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: hockey city
Posts: 14,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
I think the PP is set, Markov and Subban.. and thats the main reason why we didnt resign Wiz.. Diaz will become a pretty good defenseman for us and should be able to play on the 2nd PP wave soon.. and Erhoff isnt the type of defenseman we need, too soft and too costy
You keep saying that, except Markov on the right side never worked. His best asset is finding either his d shooter or the top right forward for one timers, you limit the possibilities if you put him on tr wrong side.

Maxpac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:50 PM
  #104
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Thank you for not reading my point. He's a top 4 on almost every team in the East right now which is dirrectly contrary to what you said about him not being at top 4 player anymore. He's also good enough to be a top-2 on a non-contender, showing that he's not at top 4 by the skin of his teeth. On a good playoff team he's a 3-4.
showing how he can be a top 2 on the most garbage teams in the conference doesn't show he can be a top 4 on a good team. The fact is we have a glorious opportunity to stack our defence and there seems to be resistance. Its almost like th eorganization and a lot fo the posters here, such as yourself, are afraid of taking the next step.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-28-2011, 11:50 PM
  #105
Little Nilan
Registered User
 
Little Nilan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Praha
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 8,209
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Little Nilan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toro View Post
If Hammer is retained Spacek needs to go and the Wiz signed.
My thoughts as well.

Little Nilan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:08 AM
  #106
Blob Buster
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 292
vCash: 500
I don't understand where all the hate for Hamrlik comes from. He's been terrific for us in the last 4 years, and we would have been nowhere near our level of success without him. Those who thinks Wiz could have brought us similar results are being naive. Just last year, he logged 22+ minutes, finished at +6, often played against the best players from opposing team and still had 34 points. He would be top 4 on basically any team in the league, and if you can have the luxury of having him play 17-18 minutes a night, he'd be even better and wouldn't run out of gas.

Of course, he does seem redundant if we also keep Spacek, and I'd like to see Weber and Emelin get ice time, so there is no way we can keep Spacek, Wiz and Hammer at the same time. At the right salary (below 3M), I say we keep Hammer and use his experience to help break through a young D.

Blob Buster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:13 AM
  #107
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
showing how he can be a top 2 on the most garbage teams in the conference doesn't show he can be a top 4 on a good team. The fact is we have a glorious opportunity to stack our defence and there seems to be resistance. Its almost like th eorganization and a lot fo the posters here, such as yourself, are afraid of taking the next step.
I'd rather have a younger top-4 defender than Hamrlik and would strongly prefer Wisniewski. I just object to people saying flat out inaccurate things about Hamrlik.

On Boston he's 2/3. Philadelphia he's somewhere with Carle and Coburn as a 4-5, Pittsburgh 4-5. Washington 3/4. Tampa he's a 2/3. Buffalo he's a 2/3 with Reghr in and New York he's 2/3 after Staal.

On the whole I prefer re-signing Wisniewski to Hamrlik but, if that isn't possible, Hamrlik is an acceptable stop gap 3rd defenseman for a competitive team.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:14 AM
  #108
Habsawce
Registered User
 
Habsawce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 13,325
vCash: 691
Wisniewski is not being re-signed, people need to give up on that. There isn't room for him in the line up, PG is trying to trade his rights and James himself stated that it's either him or Markov being re-signed. Markov has been re-signed.

Give it up people.

Habsawce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:17 AM
  #109
habs_24x
Registered User
 
habs_24x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,380
vCash: 500
Im pretty much with all of you. If they can trade Spacek, Hamrlik is a definite upgrade, if not, i hope Roman turns down the offer. Acutally as others have said, Gill would of been enough. They needed to replace Hamrlik and Spacek with younger blood. Hell, i wouldnt mind seeing Weber take one of those spots. The other should of went to Emelin or Diaz.

Anyway, i doubt Hamrlik takes a one year deal. I think we can say goodbye to Hammer and thanks for the 4 good years.

habs_24x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:19 AM
  #110
not quite yoda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Qatar
Posts: 3,506
vCash: 500
The timing of this "last minute" offer (days before July 1) makes me think we might have a deal pending for Spacek. Hamrlik Would move in on his 3rd pairing spot and should perform better. We pick up a late pick, pay Hamrlik 2 to 2.5 million, save money on the cap hit.

It's a no-brainer if there is a taker for Spacek.

not quite yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:21 AM
  #111
Little Nilan
Registered User
 
Little Nilan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Praha
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 8,209
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Little Nilan
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
Im pretty much with all of you. If they can trade Spacek, Hamrlik is a definite upgrade, if not, i hope Roman turns down the offer. Acutally as others have said, Gill would of been enough. They needed to replace Hamrlik and Spacek with younger blood. Hell, i wouldnt mind seeing Weber take one of those spots. The other should of went to Emelin or Diaz.
Why would you want that? Hamrlik is a much better player than all of those three and one of them will be lucky to one day have half of his career.

Little Nilan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:23 AM
  #112
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
The timing of this "last minute" offer (days before July 1) makes me think we might have a deal pending for Spacek. Hamrlik Would move in on his 3rd pairing spot and should perform better. We pick up a late pick, pay Hamrlik 2 to 2.5 million, save money on the cap hit.

It's a no-brainer if there is a taker for Spacek.
There are a bunch of teams that need to reach the cap floor still. I think Spacek and his one year contract has become very movable. If he is then Hamrlik resigning for a year is fantastic.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:24 AM
  #113
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,844
vCash: 500
I asked that question in the other thread: to those who pray Hammer be gone, who do you see replacing him?

Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:34 AM
  #114
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 22,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
The timing of this "last minute" offer (days before July 1) makes me think we might have a deal pending for Spacek. Hamrlik Would move in on his 3rd pairing spot and should perform better. We pick up a late pick, pay Hamrlik 2 to 2.5 million, save money on the cap hit.

It's a no-brainer if there is a taker for Spacek.
You might be right. In that scenario, I think what may be taking time is finding a partner that Spacek wouldn't be opposed to joining. Not that he has a NMC, but I don't expect PG to simply ship Spacek off somewhere and ask him to understand that it makes the most sense for the team. He's been too good of an employee and the Habs brass has too much class for that. So, it could have been more than just finding a way to unload him and keep Hammer, it might also have been choosing a destination with Spacek's other interests in mind.

I wonder if St.Louis might be an option. They have most of their team signed, it would seem, tonnes of cap space, it would reunite him with Halak, they have no one irreplaceable on the left side of their D, and no defenders over the age of 30. Lots of reasons they might be interested in having him in the bottom 4 over there.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:35 AM
  #115
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Would love this if we can move Spacegoat.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:41 AM
  #116
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Jr View Post
I just find it counter productive to sign Wiz as well. Why force yourself to trade Weber when he might end up being really good (and cheap) for awhile? In the salary cap era, you have to hang on to your cheap young players as long as humanly possible in hopes that they flourish. I am the only one here who saw Weber transform into a good, confident player in the last couple of months of the season?
I don't want Weber moved either. I just have a hard time seeing us start with 9 Ds. So, at least Spacek is out, but then I figured maybe Gauthier could package him and Weber for a good return on offense.
Obviously, I'm only talking about if Wiz were to be re-signed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
showing how he can be a top 2 on the most garbage teams in the conference doesn't show he can be a top 4 on a good team. The fact is we have a glorious opportunity to stack our defence and there seems to be resistance. Its almost like th eorganization and a lot fo the posters here, such as yourself, are afraid of taking the next step.
To be honest, I think management might be looking at Weber as a suitable replacement for Wiz. Young, cheap, great shot, good PMD, fast, maybe a little less physical, showed improvement on his defensive front. He might just end up being a very key addition to our team next year.
Maybe they prefer risking going with him, and signing a good veteran like Hammer, that they know can step up and form a decent pair with Spacek if ever Emelin chokes and Weber needs another year as the 7th D, instead of going all out and signing Wiz to, most likely, an overpaid long term contract.

Maybe they'd prefer to risk things on Emelin/Weber/Spacek/Weber, and concentrate some of the money on bringing in offensive help. Let's be frank, if you look at last year, no matter how slow or old our Defense was, our primary problem was offense. Yes, some of it came from the poor puck moving from our Dmen last year and their poor decision making (noticeably guys like Mara, Picard and Sopel), but we are getting Markov and Gorges back and they alone improve it tremendously over the 3 guys I just mentioned, Weber will have another year in his system and perhaps they rate him much higher than you and many other fans do. Emelin is also believed to be a decent puck mover, it'll be interesting to see how he adapts here in a faster game. But our main offensive issue came from our offensive players, not the defenders. So, maybe, after many years, Gauthier will focus on bringing in top 6 talent, and perhaps, more than just one player.
Maybe he is thinking about getting a cheap solid veteran like Hammer, and passing up on Wiz, so he can get a Jagr+Cole (or Jokinen). Maybe he's also thinking about adding to them an tough role player like Torres, or Konopka. Maybe he's working on a major deal upfront via the trade route.

One thing is for sure, Markov-PK-Gorges-Hammer is not a bad top 4. Having Markov-PK as our top 2 could be comparable to the best Dmen duo in the NHL. Following that up with solid Dmen like Gorges and Hammer is nothing to be sad about.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we are June 29th, the POs ended just a couple weeks ago, and you've already assumed that there is some type of resistance from management that they're not willing to stack their team.

If by training camp, our team looks as it is now with Hammer, our qualified FAs and a depth center like Gordon, then I will agree that management really missed the boat. But with guys like Pouliot and Pyatt not being qualified, and as of today, not re-signing Wiz, it seems very unlikely that Gauthier's plan is to start the year with about 8M of free space.


Last edited by Kriss E: 06-29-2011 at 12:48 AM.
Kriss E is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:43 AM
  #117
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 42,246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Especially Boston, he's basically equal to Seidenberg.
Seidenberg is way ****ing better than Hamrlik.

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 12:58 AM
  #118
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Seidenberg is way ****ing better than Hamrlik.
Hmm, No. Faster yes, better? No.
Make him play with O'Byrne, Weber, a rookie Streit, Spacek, etc...and then you'll notice it.
Wiz can unsuccessfully chase a guy in his zone all the way to the blueline because he forgot he needs to play defense, and when that results into a goal, people will blame Hammer for it. That's the kind of good judgment some Mtl fans have of Hammer.

Kriss E is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:02 AM
  #119
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Seidenberg is way ****ing better than Hamrlik.
Last year Hamrlik had slightly better offense: 34 points in 79 games on a lower scoring team compared to Seidenberg's 32 points in 81.

Hamrlik was +6, Seidenberg was +3.

Seidenberg played more minutes but not by a lot (23:32 vs. 22:16)

Hamrlik played first line competition for most of the season except at the end when Subban-Gill took over. Seidenberg played 2nd pairing competition for the entire year until the end of the playoffs when they combined him and Chara to face the Sedins.

And one of these played behind a Norris trophy winner and in front of a Vezina winner while the other didn't.

As I said, basically equivalent. But if one of these guys was better than the other last season it was Hamrlik, not Seidenberg.

Talks to Goalposts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:12 AM
  #120
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,392
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
awfull?
....it sickens me to know PG is probably thrilled with our blueline going forward. Like FOTS said, if Markov goes down, which it appears he is one hit away from the glue factory, we are left with a very immobile, slow, aging backend.

You can't go into next season with a defense this old, there's too great a risk for injury. You can't give this slow, older guys that many minutes and count on them in that fashion. I don't like it, not one bit.

PG and Gainey are probably high-fiving each other, thinking they have it all figured out for next year. Its as if they never learn from their mistakes.

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:28 AM
  #121
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
HFBoards: Night's Watch
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABSINCE76 View Post
Without Hamrlik and Spacek we would have never beat Washington or Pittsburgh period.
You remember game three of that series, the game Washington buried us? Guess who was completely and mind numbingly awful? They were decent overall but our miracle run was because of Halak by a country mile, and then some. Gorges, Gill, Cammalleri and Gionta all come in behind him. If this was a top ten list, Halak takes the first six spots.

With regards to Hamrlik. If he signs for under 3m and we deal Spacek. This will be an acceptable signing. In any other scenario, this is simply pure management. What I find particularly irksome is the likelihood PG will allow Wisniewski to walk because he refuses to ink him to a $5m deal. We will regret that decision, imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
....it sickens me to know PG is probably thrilled with our blueline going forward. Like FOTS said, if Markov goes down, which it appears he is one hit away from the glue factory, we are left with a very immobile, slow, aging backend.

You can't go into next season with a defense this old, there's too great a risk for injury. You can't give this slow, older guys that many minutes and count on them in that fashion. I don't like it, not one bit.

PG and Gainey are probably high-fiving each other, thinking they have it all figured out for next year. Its as if they never learn from their mistakes.
They never learn. This is why we about to allow our fourth offensive defenseman walk for nothing. Schneider was understandable and Souray simply demanded too much for his worth but Streit and now possibly Wisniewski are simply inept moves to have allowed them to walk away.

Bourne Endeavor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:37 AM
  #122
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
....it sickens me to know PG is probably thrilled with our blueline going forward. Like FOTS said, if Markov goes down, which it appears he is one hit away from the glue factory, we are left with a very immobile, slow, aging backend.

You can't go into next season with a defense this old, there's too great a risk for injury. You can't give this slow, older guys that many minutes and count on them in that fashion. I don't like it, not one bit.

PG and Gainey are probably high-fiving each other, thinking they have it all figured out for next year. Its as if they never learn from their mistakes.
Considering we managed just fine with a similar defense last year, ya, I think you're probably having a tougher time going to sleep over it than they are.
Gorges, Subban, Weber and Emelin are all under 26. Markov is 32, but they made their decision when they chose him over Wiz, and I agree with it. I wasn't in agreement with bringing Gill back, but it was done. Spacek, hopefully will be moved. Which leaves Hammer and I have no problem with him as he's solid.

I don't mind if this is our D squad and they focus on offense.

What really strikes me is the lack of faith some fans have in management. At least wait until the open market to really base your decision. Maybe nothing will happen, personally, I strongly doubt it. Would make little sense, and Gauthier so far has been pretty logical overall in his moves.

Kriss E is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:37 AM
  #123
King Kovalev
Registered User
 
King Kovalev's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Poland
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
I dont like this .. really don't. Weber is weak.. Spacek 37, Gill 36 and Hammer 37 aren't getting younger nor faster (scary) .. Markov and Gorges are both coming off season ending knee surgerys. I think PG is taking a big risk not signing Wiz at his point and should be looking to get a deal done with him rather than Hammer

King Kovalev is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:43 AM
  #124
Kimota
Nation of Poutine
 
Kimota's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: La Vieille Capitale
Country: France
Posts: 22,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodKiwi View Post
If tomorrow we hear that Hamrlik is back at around 4M, what's not to love about the deal...


2.5 max or else. Like him test FA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toro View Post
If Hammer is retained Spacek needs to go and the Wiz signed.
I would prefer that the three don't come back.

I really hope Hammer doesn't re-sign and am dreading what tomorrow will bring.

Kimota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2011, 01:44 AM
  #125
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 50,284
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Considering we managed just fine with a similar defense last year, ya, I think you're probably having a tougher time going to sleep over it than they are.
Gorges, Subban, Weber and Emelin are all under 26. Markov is 32, but they made their decision when they chose him over Wiz, and I agree with it. I wasn't in agreement with bringing Gill back, but it was done. Spacek, hopefully will be moved. Which leaves Hammer and I have no problem with him as he's solid.

I don't mind if this is our D squad and they focus on offense.

What really strikes me is the lack of faith some fans have in management. At least wait until the open market to really base your decision. Maybe nothing will happen, personally, I strongly doubt it. Would make little sense, and Gauthier so far has been pretty logical overall in his moves.
We did not manage just fine last season. We finished 6th and were bounced in the first round. That result should never be considered fine, and I'm sick and tired of that being the standard around here.

Fish on The Sand is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.