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Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

LD Olli Määttä (2012, 22nd overall, Pittsburgh)

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Old
05-25-2012, 07:45 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
I think it depends on the situation, player's playing style, position, motivation etc.

It seemed to work pretty well for Landeskog, Radulov, maybe Krejci and Voracek if you count them.

Though those players (esp. the first two) have so much talent that they would have probably developed well/succeeded no matter where they had played.
It's literally pointless to put that issue on the individual player level. You never know how the alternative would have worked out. It's just like anything else inthis world - to get a valid picture, you need to look at large numbers of cases and see what emerges from that. And if you do, it is quite clear that European prospects who go through the CHL succeed much more rarely than those who develop in Europe and who were drafted in the same round. Also much worse than North American players drafted out of the CHL.

An analysis of the first rounds 1991-2004, with update for more recent years, is here. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...merican&page=2

Also, IIHF made a study some years ago that looked at this from a slightly different angle, investigating all european players who had a pro contract in NA over a certain timespan. This documented essentially the same conclusion. For that matter, anyone can establish the same point themselves by sitting down with the draft results for a couple of hours, it's pretty obvious once you start looking at it at a more systematic level than just recalling the handful of players who have done well out of the CHL.

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05-25-2012, 08:31 AM
  #402
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
It's literally pointless to put that issue on the individual player level. You never know how the alternative would have worked out. It's just like anything else inthis world - to get a valid picture, you need to look at large numbers of cases and see what emerges from that.
No, it's the exact opposite. Player development is always individual, no matter the sport. You can do studies and researches but they don't show how each player develops individually. You could do a similar study on how countries develop players but no one is going start saying "you should have been born in Canada!".

On topic, according to his hometown papers, Määttä has changed his mind and is going to stay in North America next season.

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05-25-2012, 09:26 AM
  #403
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Qvist - do you know where I could read more about that study?

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05-25-2012, 09:27 AM
  #404
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No, it's the exact opposite. Player development is always individual, no matter the sport. You can do studies and researches but they don't show how each player develops individually. You could do a similar study on how countries develop players but no one is going start saying "you should have been born in Canada!".

On topic, according to his hometown papers, Määttä has changed his mind and is going to stay in North America next season.
Did Määttä ever say he's coming back or was it just speculation form teh papers?

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05-25-2012, 09:31 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
It's literally pointless to put that issue on the individual player level. You never know how the alternative would have worked out. It's just like anything else inthis world - to get a valid picture, you need to look at large numbers of cases and see what emerges from that. And if you do, it is quite clear that European prospects who go through the CHL succeed much more rarely than those who develop in Europe and who were drafted in the same round. Also much worse than North American players drafted out of the CHL.

An analysis of the first rounds 1991-2004, with update for more recent years, is here. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...merican&page=2

Also, IIHF made a study some years ago that looked at this from a slightly different angle, investigating all european players who had a pro contract in NA over a certain timespan. This documented essentially the same conclusion. For that matter, anyone can establish the same point themselves by sitting down with the draft results for a couple of hours, it's pretty obvious once you start looking at it at a more systematic level than just recalling the handful of players who have done well out of the CHL.
Works both ways.

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05-25-2012, 10:40 AM
  #406
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
No, it's the exact opposite. Player development is always individual, no matter the sport. You can do studies and researches but they don't show how each player develops individually. You could do a similar study on how countries develop players but no one is going start saying "you should have been born in Canada!".

On topic, according to his hometown papers, Määttä has changed his mind and is going to stay in North America next season.
Yeah, that'd be a real good point if you wanted to use data predictively at the individual level, as opposed to as one input to likely outcomes for different courses of action - or more simply, just to learn how different choices in the past have panned out. Since however nobody is suggesting any such thing, your point is 100% irrelevant.


Last edited by Qvist: 05-25-2012 at 10:49 AM.
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05-25-2012, 10:43 AM
  #407
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Qvist - do you know where I could read more about that study?
Yeah, it's at the IIHF site, somewhere. I recall it was a little hard to find. I don't think I have a link anymore.

EDIT: Here it is. http://www.iihf.com/fileadmin/user_u...IIHF_Study.pdf

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05-25-2012, 10:43 AM
  #408
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Did Määttä ever say he's coming back or was it just speculation form teh papers?
This is my source: http://keskustelu.jatkoaika.com/show...postcount=2594

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05-25-2012, 10:47 AM
  #409
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Works both ways.
Yes, as I said the question has no meaning at the individual player level.You can't use experience to say "this player will have that result if he does this". Either way. But you can use experience as guidance to probabilities. It's like smoking. Nobody can tell how much sooner you will die if you smoke for 40 years (or indeed if you will die sooner at all). But experience strongly suggests that you will, and by a certain amount of time. Which is more than good enough to be a meaningful input to you if you're weighing whether to quit or not.

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05-25-2012, 10:48 AM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
Yeah, that'd be a real good point if you wanted to use data predictively, as opposed to as one input to likely outcomes for different courses of action - or more simply, just to learn how different choices in the past have panned out. Since however nobody is suggesting any such thing, your point is 100% irrelevant.
No it isn't since predictive is all what this site is about.

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05-25-2012, 10:52 AM
  #411
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No it isn't since predictive is all what this site is about.
Oh God, it's you. Look, if you still haven't figured out this simple point about how basic human knowledge works despite numerous explanations past and present, your problem. Nighty night.

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05-25-2012, 10:56 AM
  #412
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I meant coming back to JYP. But thanks anyway.

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05-25-2012, 11:06 AM
  #413
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Originally Posted by Qvist View Post
Yeah, it's at the IIHF site, somewhere. I recall it was a little hard to find. I don't think I have a link anymore.

EDIT: Here it is. http://www.iihf.com/fileadmin/user_u...IIHF_Study.pdf
Thanks.

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06-22-2012, 09:02 PM
  #414
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PIT loading up on D-men in successive drafts and first picks.

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06-22-2012, 09:03 PM
  #415
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A better prospect than our 8th overall pick in my opinion. Love it. Love, love, love, love, love it.

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06-23-2012, 05:13 AM
  #416
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One pick away from falling to the Panthers.

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02-07-2013, 08:21 AM
  #417
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How has he been this season?

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03-16-2013, 08:03 PM
  #418
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Olli [Maatta] .... the goalie?

http://www.ontariohockeyleague.com/s...how/game/64314

Had another poster (Flyers fan ) point this out to me. Is he really a back-up goalie, in case of emergency?

Any London Knight fans know what this is about? I'm curious

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03-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #419
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Mike Ribeiro was the Stars' emergency goaltender. Not that crazy.

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03-17-2013, 04:40 AM
  #420
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its a typo, they put him in the wrong section. he played defense as usual saturday and put up an assist in London's win

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10-08-2013, 09:49 PM
  #421
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What a terrific game by Olli, deserved 2nd star and first 2 NHL points. Could´ve had even more. He´s extremely solid so far and it will be so tough to send him back to London. He´s clearly NHL ready, also he´s played 3 NHL games so far and hasn´t been on the ice for a single goal against.

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10-14-2013, 02:11 AM
  #422
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Maatta's crushing his tryout. The kid rarely makes a mistake, and when he does, learns from it does not repeat said mistake again. What a ceribrial player the Pens have on their hands.

Coaches are raving about him, which is so rare for this staff. His outlets have been pretty much the best on the team with Letang out, and he looks to have a lot of untapped offensive potential to go along with a real charismatic flare to his game, the kid is just so much fun to watch.

Chances are he gets sent back down soon with the glut of defenseman at the NHL and AHL level, and he is going to absolutely dominate the O this year.

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10-14-2013, 11:09 PM
  #423
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Maatta's crushing his tryout. The kid rarely makes a mistake, and when he does, learns from it does not repeat said mistake again. What a ceribrial player the Pens have on their hands.

Coaches are raving about him, which is so rare for this staff. His outlets have been pretty much the best on the team with Letang out, and he looks to have a lot of untapped offensive potential to go along with a real charismatic flare to his game, the kid is just so much fun to watch.

Chances are he gets sent back down soon with the glut of defenseman at the NHL and AHL level, and he is going to absolutely dominate the O this year.
100% agree.

Seeing him at the Memorial Cup recently, I was completely blown away by Maata. Hindsight is always 20/20, but this kid's easily top 10 draft material for me.

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10-14-2013, 11:27 PM
  #424
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100% agree.

Seeing him at the Memorial Cup recently, I was completely blown away by Maata. Hindsight is always 20/20, but this kid's easily top 10 draft material for me.
If I recall correctly, some people were surprised Maatta dropped so low and Pouliot went so high and predicted them to be picked roughly in the others draft spot.

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10-14-2013, 11:44 PM
  #425
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If I recall correctly, some people were surprised Maatta dropped so low and Pouliot went so high and predicted them to be picked roughly in the others draft spot.
I did for sure. I had Maatta going to the Lightning at 10 and Pouliot going to the Lightning as well but at 19. I was shocked that Maatta dropped as far as he did, given the prevalence of steady defensemen who can skate in today's NHL. Olli might not have any explosive talents, but he doesn't turn the puck over a lot and can break out of his zone really well and coaches love that kind of talent. Hope he starts messing up a bit though so he ends up back in London, they're pretty shorthanded without him or Zadorov

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