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Old
06-29-2011, 04:40 PM
  #26
SJSharks2010
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I wouldn't mind White being back if it's at under 3 million and he doesn't have a NTC. He played very well for us before sustaining a concussion when Jarret Stoll ran him into the boards.

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06-29-2011, 04:43 PM
  #27
SJSharks2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweHockeypunk21 View Post
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.725m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.366m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)
John McCarthy ($0.550m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.540m) / Ben Eager ($0.965m)
/ / Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($3.550m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Ian White ($2.999m)
/ Justin Braun ($0.875m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,548,329; BONUSES: $587,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,751,671

That would be a good team through the regular season, with a stacked top 6. The 3rd line would be what needs improved by the deadline. I am not sure about Whites contract though. I'd be okay with a one year extension. If we signed him more long term, we'd probably have to trade one of Heatley, Clowe or Pavelski (as much as it sucks, Thornton, Marleau, Couture and Burns come first) for a package of picks/prospects/young NHL players to replenish the youth.
I don't want Eager back because his stupid penalties, and I don't like the idea of Mccarthy being a full timer. Mclaren doesn't belong anywhere near the NHL, let alone as a #13. He's a below average fighter and a terrible hockey player. No thanks.

I like how our defence looks with White back though, even though his salary may be a bit much.

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06-29-2011, 04:58 PM
  #28
SacLandshark
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I take this quote from Wilson as strong evidence that white is not in the sharks plans. An ambiguously written article holds less weight to me...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/sharks/...the-blue-line/

Quote:
And White’s situation?

“I think it has to be a fit for all of us. We look at what the options are, what the internals are. On the right side, we’ve got Boyle, Demers, Braun. We will explore, not just the UFA market. We’ll talk to 29 teams because there are trade discussions, too.

“Where does he fit in that loop? Where do the dollars fit? Where does the term fit? And what are the external options to fill somewhere else in our defense corps.”

Later Wilson added:

“I think you’ll see an addition on our defense. When? Obviously we have people that we like, that we’ve targeted for a while. If and when they come available, we’ll be poised to do that. We always work backward. We’re trying to build this team and the final day to build this team will be the trade deadline next year.”

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06-29-2011, 05:01 PM
  #29
hockeyball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SacLandshark View Post
I take this quote from Wilson as strong evidence that white is not in the sharks plans. An ambiguously written article holds less weight to me...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/sharks/...the-blue-line/
Yah, but Wilson says one thing and does something totally different all the time, so his words don't hold much weight either.

Still, it looks like this was bunk. Sounds like White really wanted to stay too, I feel for him. I wouldn't want to move that much.

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06-29-2011, 05:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Yah, but Wilson says one thing and does something totally different all the time, so his words don't hold much weight either.

Still, it looks like this was bunk. Sounds like White really wanted to stay too, I feel for him. I wouldn't want to move that much.
If he wanted to stay that much, he would take a pay cut.

Burns, Vlasic, Murray can play left ... Boyle, Demers, White can play right, and Braun can be 7th D-man. There would be a way to make it work if he really wanted to be here.

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06-29-2011, 07:41 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SacLandshark View Post
I take this quote from Wilson as strong evidence that white is not in the sharks plans. An ambiguously written article holds less weight to me...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/sharks/...the-blue-line/
These comments from DW say absolutely nothing.. just political double speak ..
Does not state the Sharks did or didn't make an offer to White or that SJ would or would not make an offer.
Further the comments were made 4 days before the trade for Burns

As for having too many of L or Right shooting dmen .. Almost all teams have an imbalance --usually it's 4 or 5 Lefts which are more common

We do not know if White would take a "hometown" discount or not since everything stated is posturing

Final analysis we will not know the facts until Friday

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06-29-2011, 07:45 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winky View Post
If he wanted to stay that much, he would take a pay cut.

Burns, Vlasic, Murray can play left ... Boyle, Demers, White can play right, and Braun can be 7th D-man. There would be a way to make it work if he really wanted to be here.
Wilson's quote really makes sense after the Burns trade.

Regarding White, maybe DW and White can agree to sign for 1 (or maybe 2 years) at a reduced salary and in return have a great chance to win the Cup. White kept mentioning after SJ acquired him how exciting he was to finally be on a playoff team and have a chance to finally WIN. He just turned 27 earlier this month, so he can still forgo cashing in as a UFA for 1 or 2 more years. If he wins a Cup with SJ and then becomes a UFA at 28 or 29 he'll likely even get a slightly higher bump in salary than what the market might dictate today.

Burns-Boyle
Vlasic-Demers
Murray-White

That would be a sick top 6 if Burns can play LD.

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06-29-2011, 09:50 PM
  #33
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if he really wants to stay, he'll need to sign 'cheap' -- 2M/2.5M. the sharks could do worse...*cough* kent huskins *cough*

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06-29-2011, 09:57 PM
  #34
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Sign White for next year at a 5 dollar raise and all should be happy if they win the Cup.

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06-29-2011, 10:06 PM
  #35
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Great sales pitch! It could work - that would be an awesome D... I like the way '11-'12 is shaping up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris39bong View Post
Wilson's quote really makes sense after the Burns trade.

Regarding White, maybe DW and White can agree to sign for 1 (or maybe 2 years) at a reduced salary and in return have a great chance to win the Cup. White kept mentioning after SJ acquired him how exciting he was to finally be on a playoff team and have a chance to finally WIN. He just turned 27 earlier this month, so he can still forgo cashing in as a UFA for 1 or 2 more years. If he wins a Cup with SJ and then becomes a UFA at 28 or 29 he'll likely even get a slightly higher bump in salary than what the market might dictate today.

Burns-Boyle
Vlasic-Demers
Murray-White

That would be a sick top 6 if Burns can play LD.

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06-29-2011, 10:17 PM
  #36
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Come on all, come back down to earth. I like White and all, but you really think he's going to take LESS on his BEST opportunity to cash in just to stay in San Jose?

I can see Montreal, Detroit, Bruins, etc making a push on him, and they would all give him raises.

Those of you who've never had a kid don't understand, but once you bring a life into this world you care to an extent about something like a job/team, but you also start thinking about what is best for you and your family.

I have no doubt that White wants to stay here - but at a fair market price. He shouldn't sign for anything less than 3.5 given his talents and his market value.

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06-29-2011, 10:25 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
Come on all, come back down to earth. I like White and all, but you really think he's going to take LESS on his BEST opportunity to cash in just to stay in San Jose?

I can see Montreal, Detroit, Bruins, etc making a push on him, and they would all give him raises.

Those of you who've never had a kid don't understand, but once you bring a life into this world you care to an extent about something like a job/team, but you also start thinking about what is best for you and your family.

I have no doubt that White wants to stay here - but at a fair market price. He shouldn't sign for anything less than 3.5 given his talents and his market value.
I don't expect White to take less than market value but I dislike the if you haven't experienced it, you don't understand angle. Especially since it is false. lol

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06-29-2011, 11:43 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I don't expect White to take less than market value but I dislike the if you haven't experienced it, you don't understand angle. Especially since it is false. lol
I often times find myself disagreeing with your posts... but not this time.

Not only is it a false claim... it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that Ian White can't take a discount to stay in San Jose because he's got to "look out for his family". That's almost as bad as Latrell Sprewell saying he couldn't feed his family on 7 mil a year.


I know that professional athletes tend to go where the paycheck is, which is understandable given their relatively short careers. However, I know a former MLB pitcher who played in the late 80's and early 90's who made roughly 6 million in his career, and neither he nor his wife have worked a day since he retired. He doesn't live in a sprawling estate, but his house is way bigger and way nicer than mine, and I work my fingers to the bone every day.

In the grand scheme of things, Ian White's family isn't going to suffer one bit if he should choose to take a discount, and it's laughable to suggest otherwise. I'll still be surprised if he does so. But if he does follow the money, it won't be because his fatherly instinct is telling him that the offer in San Jose isn't enough to put food on the table.

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06-29-2011, 11:46 PM
  #39
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I'll just be sad to see him go. I was really pulling for us to get White, and he was great for us. I was hoping he'd find a semi-permanent home here. Guy is all heart and you can never have too much of that.

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06-29-2011, 11:49 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkieFan View Post
I often times find myself disagreeing with your posts... but not this time.

Not only is it a false claim... it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that Ian White can't take a discount to stay in San Jose because he's got to "look out for his family". That's almost as bad as Latrell Sprewell saying he couldn't feed his family on 7 mil a year.


I know that professional athletes tend to go where the paycheck is, which is understandable given their relatively short careers. However, I know a former MLB pitcher who played in the late 80's and early 90's who made roughly 6 million in his career, and neither he nor his wife have worked a day since he retired. He doesn't live in a sprawling estate, but his house is way bigger and way nicer than mine, and I work my fingers to the bone every day.

In the grand scheme of things, Ian White's family isn't going to suffer one bit if he should choose to take a discount, and it's laughable to suggest otherwise. I'll still be surprised if he does so. But if he does follow the money, it won't be because his fatherly instinct is telling him that the offer in San Jose isn't enough to put food on the table.
There is a huge amount of pressure from the agents and the PA on the players not to give discounts. It is to the point of a couple instances of intervention by the PA being published. From what I have seen minor discounts happen (~$500k or so), but nothing major. If anything the discounts come in term (length) and the athletes are very circumspect at leaving years off the contract because of the fragility of careers.

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06-30-2011, 12:00 AM
  #41
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I like White, but with the addition of Burns I don't think he's a very good fit any more. Taht being said if he took a paycut I'd love to have him back. With the cap rise and UFA market his value is probably around 3 million per year, if he's willing to stay for less than that I say we sign him.

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06-30-2011, 12:05 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I don't expect White to take less than market value but I dislike the if you haven't experienced it, you don't understand angle. Especially since it is false. lol
You think Ian White would sign for what some people are saying 2.5mil because of the Cup?

Seriously, his family + NHLPA + his high demand will all but guarantee that he gets 3.5 mil. I'll eat crow otherwise.

I don't understand how fans sometimes feel that a player all of a sudden has some sort of allegiance that goes beyond his family/personal interests.

The guy will be looking for term and $$$, and if SJ can offer it to him at a reasonable rate, he may take a discount (which would be something in the low 3's), but anyone saying he'll sign in the 2's is just dreaming.

... do you really disagree with this?

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06-30-2011, 12:07 AM
  #43
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Even with Burns, this team need another D.

White is the logical choice (for the right price...)

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06-30-2011, 12:14 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by sjshrky27 View Post

White is the logical choice (for the right price...)

I don't know about that, his skill set becomes a bit redundant with Boyle/Burns/Demers already around. I'd rather bring in a more defensive minded guy like Hjeda.

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06-30-2011, 12:16 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
You think Ian White would sign for what some people are saying 2.5mil because of the Cup?

Seriously, his family + NHLPA + his high demand will all but guarantee that he gets 3.5 mil. I'll eat crow otherwise.

I don't understand how fans sometimes feel that a player all of a sudden has some sort of allegiance that goes beyond his family/personal interests.

The guy will be looking for term and $$$, and if SJ can offer it to him at a reasonable rate, he may take a discount (which would be something in the low 3's), but anyone saying he'll sign in the 2's is just dreaming.

... do you really disagree with this?
I disagreed with the notion that if you haven't experienced it, you don't understand it. Not whether or not White will take less than market value. It's likely not up to White at this point whether he returns to San Jose. DW was always looking for a better option once it opened up and he found one. Now it's likely he goes unsigned on Friday so there's no reason for him not to take the best offer for him.

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06-30-2011, 12:17 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SharksAddict View Post
I don't know about that, his skill set becomes a bit redundant with Boyle/Burns/Demers already around. I'd rather bring in a more defensive minded guy like Hjeda.
You can never have enough puck-moving defensemen.

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06-30-2011, 12:20 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SharksAddict View Post
I don't know about that, his skill set becomes a bit redundant with Boyle/Burns/Demers already around. I'd rather bring in a more defensive minded guy like Hjeda.
Pinkett-Smith might work if Will allows her to sign a contract

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06-30-2011, 12:25 AM
  #48
BrianSmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkieFan View Post
I often times find myself disagreeing with your posts... but not this time.

Not only is it a false claim... it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that Ian White can't take a discount to stay in San Jose because he's got to "look out for his family". That's almost as bad as Latrell Sprewell saying he couldn't feed his family on 7 mil a year.


I know that professional athletes tend to go where the paycheck is, which is understandable given their relatively short careers. However, I know a former MLB pitcher who played in the late 80's and early 90's who made roughly 6 million in his career, and neither he nor his wife have worked a day since he retired. He doesn't live in a sprawling estate, but his house is way bigger and way nicer than mine, and I work my fingers to the bone every day.

In the grand scheme of things, Ian White's family isn't going to suffer one bit if he should choose to take a discount, and it's laughable to suggest otherwise. I'll still be surprised if he does so. But if he does follow the money, it won't be because his fatherly instinct is telling him that the offer in San Jose isn't enough to put food on the table.
I'm not crying for White and his $$$ one bit, but what makes you think that he'll leave 500 to 1mil on the table for a year? For a guy like White, this is probably his only guaranteed chance to cash in, and in the "big picture" as you put it, cashing in for fair market value is the smart thing to do.

What if he takes that 2.5 mil/1yr that some people are suggesting and he gets critically injured this year and can't play hockey again?

Factoring in the ACTUAL $ amount that these players make, and I think you'll find that he's not raking in the dough like a basketball/football/baseball players.

Other people would know better than I, but how much of the player's salary do they actually collect?

With taxes and the money that goes into escrow, is it something like 50%?

So if he wanted a nice middle class home in San Jose, say Willow Glen or Los Gatos, he'd have to pay about 1.5mil.

Well, that's the cost of last year's salary.

Over the course of his NHL career, White's made 5,550,000.

If he only got 50% of that due to taxes and the dues he has to pay to the league, then he's made $2,775,000.

Now, by all means that isn't chump change, but it isn't the hyperbole that you've just said wherein Sprewell says he can't provide for his family for 7mil a year.

This next contract would GUARANTEE him a luxurious life for him, his family, and would be better overall for his career (see below).


I'll put it this way - Sharks can't afford to sign White long term and they can't afford to pay him fair market value. Him signing to the Sharks would also pretty much relegate him to the 2nd or 3rd pairing, and he would mos def get 2nd PP time, instead of 1st PP - all things that ultimately hold back on his value by preventing his TOI and potential points by being on the ice for that amount of time for his next contract.

So you tell me, after all that, how would it be a smart career choice for him to sign here for 2.5mil given all these factors?

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06-30-2011, 12:30 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I disagreed with the notion that if you haven't experienced it, you don't understand it. Not whether or not White will take less than market value. It's likely not up to White at this point whether he returns to San Jose. DW was always looking for a better option once it opened up and he found one. Now it's likely he goes unsigned on Friday so there's no reason for him not to take the best offer for him.
Understood, but I think you are grabbing on to a small part of the overall argument. For me, I'll just have to disagree with you, but that is because I am of the belief that you cannot truly appreciate a situation unless you've experienced it. For example, my coworker is a widow, and one day she said that she doesn't like doing "x" because it makes her think of her dead husband. I started to say "ohhh I understand," but then I realized you know I really don't understand.

Same thing with these people judging athletes and saying "damn why doesn't he take a discount for the almighty cup!" There are more things to it than that...

However, I get where you are coming from and do think it is a legit point of view, I just disagree with it.

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06-30-2011, 12:36 AM
  #50
SJeasy
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Brian,
50% is a good guess on take home. They have taxes at maximum rate, agent fees, union dues and escrow.

A quick example is JT who had a $7.2mil published salary at the time a year or two ago but only earned $6.5mil because of escrow. That was before taxes, agent fees, etc. Union dues aren't cheap for players. There are roughly 700 players with a top guy getting over $1mil/year and paying off a couple of guys who got removed from their top position. That's just one guy in their PA offices. Between the entire PA staff, expenses and offices, you are talking into well into 4 figures per player. Than you have their strike warchest. How do you or others think players were getting ~$10k/month during the lockout? That dues figure is not peanuts.

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