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[CBJ/MTL] Wisniewski's rights for a Cond. 7th (5th if he signs in CBJ) (post #302)

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06-14-2011, 10:33 PM
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[CBJ/MTL] Wisniewski's rights for a Cond. 7th (5th if he signs in CBJ) (post #302)

I wanted to ask if the people who watched him play every single day this past season could give me some information on this guy. The Red Wings (among others) and their fans are really high on this guy as a possible Rafalski replacement. I was wondering if you all would be able to tell me his strengths/weaknesses and how is offense and defense is. How is his poise? Does he take stupid penalties? What are your pet peeves about him? What would you miss about him if he leaves as a UFA?

Thanks for any info!

Original 6

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06-14-2011, 10:39 PM
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He shows alot of composure with the puck, although he's usually good for a glaring brainfart every now and then that remind you of brisebois.

He's got a good outlet pass, decent shot... can be used as either a PP QB or PP triggerman... stands up for teammates, and plays with an edge.

He's not nearly as bad defensively as some isles fans will try to tell you. He's an excellent 2nd pairing d-man and a strong first team powerplay guy.

Would I miss him? Yeah, but with markov (assuming he returns to form) and subban, wiz is more of a luxury than a necessity for the habs.

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06-14-2011, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Konnan511 View Post
I wanted to ask if the people who watched him play every single day this past season could give me some information on this guy. The Red Wings (among others) and their fans are really high on this guy as a possible Rafalski replacement. I was wondering if you all would be able to tell me his strengths/weaknesses and how is offense and defense is. How is his poise? Does he take stupid penalties? What are your pet peeves about him? What would you miss about him if he leaves as a UFA?

Thanks for any info!

Original 6

if he ends up going to Det as a replacement for Rafalski, I think you guys will be a bit disapointed (especially if you have to outbid everyone else for his services and end up paying 5M+).

Wiz is a solid top-4 dman B/C of his aggressive play on the PP and his overall offensive production. Unlike Rafalski, who to my estimation was both a solid point producer AND a very good positional dman who offset his physical limitations with skill/poise, Wiz seems to me as a guy who is still getting by thanks to a relatively one-dimensional skill set combined with a very solid competitive edge.

he plays with aggression and intensity, and he has a pretty good feel in the offensive zone, but ultimately he is sub-par in his defensive-zone coverage and defensive transition game. He needs to play with an edge to be effective, but that intensity also leads him to overcommit far too often defensively, which lead to pretty troublesome breakdowns in his own end.

not the kind of player you want to see playing vital minutes in a must win game...

his offensive contributions certainly cover up some of his shortcomings, and he is by all means a very solid top-4 player... just not in the same caliber as a Rafalski, even though he's primed to get paid that way this offseason.

if he is willing to take less than "market" value, I'd be shocked to see him leave montreal since he claims to love it here, but I'd see Detroit as one of the few other teams he'd go to at less than 5M$, in which case he would be a solid addition (imo, 4M would be his fair price point, but 50pt UFA dmen don't generally go that cheap).

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06-14-2011, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Konnan511 View Post
I wanted to ask if the people who watched him play every single day this past season could give me some information on this guy. The Red Wings (among others) and their fans are really high on this guy as a possible Rafalski replacement. I was wondering if you all would be able to tell me his strengths/weaknesses and how is offense and defense is. How is his poise? Does he take stupid penalties? What are your pet peeves about him? What would you miss about him if he leaves as a UFA?

Thanks for any info!

Original 6
Puck moving defenseman with a strong shot. Very mobile. Point shot is both hard and much more importantly accurate. Not large but plays with an edge and gets physcially involved. Actually draws more penalties than he takes which is rare for a defenseman. Not a great positional defender but isn't a liability on 2nd pairing minutes with a more defensively minded partner (this year's Hamrlik). Provides offense both on even strength and powerplay but powerplay is more important to his production. Was a plus player at even strength in Montreal, a minus in New York.

He'd be about as close to Rafalski before he got old as you could find on the UFA market. I'd prefer it if the Habs retained him but if not, then I'd like you to take him out of the Eastern Conference.

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06-14-2011, 10:55 PM
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Well I always wanted to say at Spacek's age...and salary cap hit, I much rather have that money used in retaining the services of JW...In all likelihood we will not retain JW and keep a very old Spacek as a stopgap measure for 1 more year. Sigh...very disappointing indeed...

Especially since I was very impressed with JW in his time with Montreal. I actually have been a fan of JW for a long time and was delighted when we traded for him!

His stats with Montreal...

Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG

2010-11 Montreal 43 7 23 30 4 20 4 0 2

87 SHOTS 0.70 points per game ratio

As some wise people will point out he is not as bad defensively as some will point out, if anything his defensive skills are ok its just his offensive skills are above average.

If he joins the redwings I will eat my hat! Or make Spacek eat it...

Spacek is not a bad player its just I have to all probability...live with him for 1 year more at that age...declining..diminishing skills and stamina, and everytime I will look at spacek's number on the ice and name I will think wow this could have been JW money and long term contract with us...but as many say every year we lose our pp defensive trigger man...for nothing...

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06-14-2011, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by giovannicanella View Post
Well I always wanted to say at Spacek's age...and salary cap hit, I much rather have that money used in retaining the services of JW...In all likelihood we will not retain JW and keep a very old Spacek as a stopgap measure for 1 more year. Sigh...very disappointing indeed...

Especially since I was very impressed with JW in his time with Montreal. I actually have been a fan of JW for a long time and was delighted when we traded for him!

His stats with Montreal...

Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG

2010-11 Montreal 43 7 23 30 4 20 4 0 2

87 SHOTS 0.70 points per game ratio

As some wise people will point out he is not as bad defensively as some will point out, if anything his defensive skills are ok its just his offensive skills are above average.

If he joins the redwings I will eat my hat! Or make Spacek eat it...

Spacek is not a bad player its just I have to all probability...live with him for 1 year more at that age...declining..diminishing skills and stamina, and everytime I will look at spacek's number on the ice and name I will think wow this could have been JW money and long term contract with us...but as many say every year we lose our pp defensive trigger man...for nothing...
+1.
Our management team deciding to keep Spacek over Wisniewski explains why we will never take the next step.

Good GM's find ways to make things happen that benefit the team.

Very disappointing indeed.

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06-14-2011, 11:09 PM
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At this point I hope we re-sign him and Markov both. We have 18(read 22 if cap is indeed going up 4 mill) million cap space and almost nobody getting raises. I dare say this is the year we don't go after a top 6 guy, but rather keep our core in tact and hope someone can step up next year like Palushaj. The only real concerning thing is we have three right D with big shots in Subban/Wiz/Weber, which means someone would have to go eventually.

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06-14-2011, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konnan511 View Post
I wanted to ask if the people who watched him play every single day this past season could give me some information on this guy. The Red Wings (among others) and their fans are really high on this guy as a possible Rafalski replacement. I was wondering if you all would be able to tell me his strengths/weaknesses and how is offense and defense is. How is his poise? Does he take stupid penalties? What are your pet peeves about him? What would you miss about him if he leaves as a UFA?

Thanks for any info!

Original 6
Montreal has an ongoing habit of letting really good players go......only to see them prosper with another team.

Wiz in Detroit would would be just as good if not better than Rafalski. And I am afraid that this is what will happen. We will have to suffer with the same Dmen that we had this season. PG is nothing more than a carbon copy of Gainey.

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06-14-2011, 11:14 PM
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if he ends up going to Det as a replacement for Rafalski, I think you guys will be a bit disapointed (especially if you have to outbid everyone else for his services and end up paying 5M+).

Wiz is a solid top-4 dman B/C of his aggressive play on the PP and his overall offensive production. Unlike Rafalski, who to my estimation was both a solid point producer AND a very good positional dman who offset his physical limitations with skill/poise, Wiz seems to me as a guy who is still getting by thanks to a relatively one-dimensional skill set combined with a very solid competitive edge.

he plays with aggression and intensity, and he has a pretty good feel in the offensive zone, but ultimately he is sub-par in his defensive-zone coverage and defensive transition game. He needs to play with an edge to be effective, but that intensity also leads him to overcommit far too often defensively, which lead to pretty troublesome breakdowns in his own end.

not the kind of player you want to see playing vital minutes in a must win game...

his offensive contributions certainly cover up some of his shortcomings, and he is by all means a very solid top-4 player... just not in the same caliber as a Rafalski, even though he's primed to get paid that way this offseason.

if he is willing to take less than "market" value, I'd be shocked to see him leave montreal since he claims to love it here, but I'd see Detroit as one of the few other teams he'd go to at less than 5M$, in which case he would be a solid addition (imo, 4M would be his fair price point, but 50pt UFA dmen don't generally go that cheap).
Good post.

The Wiz will do the job on the O, he will have brain farts on the D. He over commits at times. He is physical. He means well.

That about sums it up.

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06-14-2011, 11:16 PM
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i doubt PG will resign him

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06-14-2011, 11:18 PM
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i doubt PG will resign him
If PG doesn't cowboy up in the next 2 weeks we might be without Wisniewski and Markov next year.

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06-14-2011, 11:29 PM
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I hear he takes stupid penalties at terrible times and his mean streak also comes from frustration at times.

So basically everyone agrees he is an ideal mobile offensive defenseman, who pinches too often and has the occasional brain fart who also has a mean streak while playing sub-standard to standard defense?

PS, thanks for all the replies! The more replies the better as well since I maybe watch one game of his (Habs) a season.

So Offense is about a B to B+?
Defense is a C- to C?
PP is about a B+ to A-?
Pk is an F? lol


What about his hockey sense and poise (which someone touched on)? Do you think it'd be a bad move to use him as a top pairing DMan instead of a 3/4 guy?

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06-14-2011, 11:31 PM
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James Wisniewski:

Out-of-this-world slapper

Solid skater, good but not great in all aspects, speed, agility, balance

Great puck mover, but tends to turn the puck over when pressured in own zone

Has a tendancy to make mistakes in defensive zone

Likes to play the body. Isn't overly physical but won't get intimidated and get throw decent checks.

Can make a PP work by himself. Has tremendous offensive instincs and a howitzer from the point. Potential for 20+ goals yearly.

Is a leader. Never complains about anything and always a smile on his face, looks like a great guy to hang around.

Is a legit top-4 defenseman... can be trusted in all situations, although is considered an offensive dman over a defensive guy... can be trusted to play 20+ solid minutes a night.

Still is young and growing into a bonafide NHL player... could be a solid replacement for Rafalski for sure IMO... with good coaching could developp into a similar presence for the Wings.

Question is... are you willing to throw $5M at him? I'd be hesitant in signing him for anything over $4,25M on a long term deal.

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06-14-2011, 11:35 PM
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Question is... are you willing to throw $5M at him? I'd be hesitant in signing him for anything over $4,25M on a long term deal.
that's why PG will not resign him

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06-14-2011, 11:37 PM
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So Offense is about a B to B+?
Defense is a C- to C?
PP is about a B+ to A-?
Pk is an F? lol

What about his hockey sense and poise (which someone touched on)? Do you think it'd be a bad move to use him as a top pairing DMan instead of a 3/4 guy?
Offense B+
Defense C+
PP A
PK he can play decent.. he's a smart player knows how to play defense... just isn't that good at it... C+

Hockey sense.. no problem there. Isn't a master at reading the play defensively but understands the game and has good enough skill to play solid defense... as said before offensively he is very very very good. He did play on the top-pair at times this year and didn't look out of place at all. Wizz for a 2nd rounder was a STEAL for the Canadiens and we might not have made the playoffs without this deal.

Now the problem is Gorges, Markov, Hammer and Wizz all need new deals. That's basically 16+ million and you need to re-sign Subban and Price next year. Can't sign everyone, Hammer is almost 100% gone, you've already re-signed Gill and you're stuck with Spacek and now it is between Marky and Wiz... can PG sign both? And at what prize...

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06-14-2011, 11:40 PM
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Also it should be pointed out that JW was eating a huge amount of mins for us...

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06-14-2011, 11:45 PM
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I wanted to ask if the people who watched him play every single day this past season could give me some information on this guy. The Red Wings (among others) and their fans are really high on this guy as a possible Rafalski replacement. I was wondering if you all would be able to tell me his strengths/weaknesses and how is offense and defense is. How is his poise? Does he take stupid penalties? What are your pet peeves about him? What would you miss about him if he leaves as a UFA?

Thanks for any info!

Original 6
Top 4 d-man, but if you have him in your top 2 you have problems. A good all round player. Takes and makes hits along the boards, although will lose some board battles to bigger players, is a mean fighter, can skate, has a great shot, a solid outlet pass & is a solid PP man. He's fine defensively on the second pairing. He's aggressive all over the ice. He's young too just 27.

He would be perfect in Detroit. I would love to have him back. I doubt we're able to afford him though.

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06-14-2011, 11:48 PM
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I hear he takes stupid penalties at terrible times and his mean streak also comes from frustration at times.

So basically everyone agrees he is an ideal mobile offensive defenseman, who pinches too often and has the occasional brain fart who also has a mean streak while playing sub-standard to standard defense?

PS, thanks for all the replies! The more replies the better as well since I maybe watch one game of his (Habs) a season.

So Offense is about a B to B+?
Defense is a C- to C?
PP is about a B+ to A-?
Pk is an F? lol


What about his hockey sense and poise (which someone touched on)? Do you think it'd be a bad move to use him as a top pairing DMan instead of a 3/4 guy?
The penalty thing is either false or effectively irrelevant. Wisniewski gets in guys faces but ends up drawing more penalties than taking them (this is consistent for the last 4 years of his career) while most defensemen take more penalties than they draw.

He can play decent penalty kill especially because of his mobility but its not a strength, I'd say C- to C. You don't score the 7th most points as a defenseman without some skills so I'd put offense in the B+ to A- range while PP would be some flavor of A (He's not a Markov or Lidstrom but definitely high end).

He could play top-pairing if the other guy is Lidstrom. If he comes back I'd be very comfortable with Markov-Wisniewski as the top pairing by way of comparison. With guys like Stuart or Kronwall though its best if he was on the second pair.

For salary, in a 63 million cap world I'd be comfortable with 4.5 as standard UFA overpayment, 5 million if he fills a desperate need that your team needs right away. For the Habs I'd want something in the 4-4.5 range, for Detroit, it would depend on your budget, but I'd say anything 4.25-4.75 is reasonable for him as another team's UFA.

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06-14-2011, 11:50 PM
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My only Problem with Wiz is his Backwards skating ability which is huge for a defenseman. Going straight forward hes fine, but when he tries to skate backwards its like hes in sand and I often see him getting turned on by forwards. Thats my only real qualm about Wiz. I think he would be a great fit with the wings, especially paired with Lidstrom. Usually makes a nice first pass, is physical, will drop the gloves and obviously has that great slapshot.

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06-14-2011, 11:51 PM
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He's slightly bigger than Rafalski, a helluva lot tougher will get less points and he's just as bad defensively. If you get him for 5 opposed to 6.5, or whatever for Rafalski, you'll be much pleased.

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06-14-2011, 11:52 PM
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Wow, you guys are awesome on the feedback. So he doesn't take stupid penalties then? Do you all know where or why or how that even got started then?

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06-14-2011, 11:56 PM
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Wow, you guys are awesome on the feedback. So he doesn't take stupid penalties then? Do you all know where or why or how that even got started then?
I'm not sure a guy with 38 PiM with a couple fights over a season can be someone who takes "stupid penalties". He's not exactly Roman Hamrlik taking a hooking/tripping/slashing call every single time he gets beaten in a race.

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06-14-2011, 11:59 PM
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Maybe everyone has the memory of him running Seabrook or doing the BJ impression to Avery. Because when he was with us I noticed nothing like that. He was very good at not taking penalties.

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06-15-2011, 12:02 AM
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Rafalski is-was a lot better than wisniewski will ever be. Wisniewski is a very gifted offensive dman with a good offensive hockey sense and a hard shot at the point. He has got a good vision and a decent first pass.

That's the good. The bad he is pretty slow for a guy his size i think, Pk and Gorges are a lot faster than him. Can hit sometimes but not often enough for me. Tends to turnover the puck when his pressured a bit like Bergeron did ( he is better than Bergeron overall no doubt). Will make a dumbass at least once per game and it can be very costly.

Not a great positioning on the ice and doesn't have a great timing for cutting passes of.

So he is pretty good on the offense but is decent at best on the defense. And i like him al ot but players like hamrlik or Gill or even Subban all outplayed him on the defensive aspect. He was just a bit better than Spacek in his own zone. Say what you want about harmlik but he saved his ass a lot this year.

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06-15-2011, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
So he doesn't take stupid penalties then? Do you all know where or why or how that even got started then?
JW had a mere 20 PIM in 43 games for us...

302 PIM in 329 games played in the NHL...

Barring the Bj / Seabrook incidents he is not very dirty or undisciplined...

Of course it is important to note Rafalski was a very disciplined hockey player who hardly took any penalties...

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