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Teams that can form credible package for Malkin

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Old
06-30-2011, 01:04 AM
  #51
LickTheEnvelope
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Tampa... Stamkos?

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Old
06-30-2011, 01:08 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
I don't see Malkin leaving Pittsburg except by trade. I also don't see Tavares becoming a top 10 forward either. Hmm.... who are the top 10 forwards in the league right now? Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Towes, Datsyuk, Stamkos, St. Louis, Henrik + Daniel Sedin, Cory Parry? Most of these guys are still young and I don't see Tavares cracking it.
When I said bolt via UFA, I meant if the islanders were to acquire him. He's not leaving Pittsburgh for sure. So I'm saying it's not worth trading Tavares (who wants to be an islander for his career) for Malkin off an injury (who may leave soon after we get him)

Also, 3 years from now I definitely think Tavares will be at least top 10 in the league for forwards. But that's my opinion based on seeing him play and develop these 2 years while playing with very very little support around him. As he progresses and players around him improve (Strome, Nino, etc) his game will be taken to another level.

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06-30-2011, 01:10 AM
  #53
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I'm saying if the Islanders acquired him he might bolt via UFA. Not Pittsburgh

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06-30-2011, 01:10 AM
  #54
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If we had no choice to accept one, I'd go with Boston's by far!

Seguin can fill in the 2nd line in the near future.
Marchand can play right wing and is a Bylsma type player.
Doug Hamilton is a big strong defenseman and I'm high on his skills.

I have to say that there's a lot of uncertainty since 2 players are not proven and the other had a good playoff run but would need to repeat this season to show he's the real deal

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06-30-2011, 01:15 AM
  #55
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The Ducks. Actually, it'd probably be one for one with Getzlaf.

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06-30-2011, 01:16 AM
  #56
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SWEET AVATAR!
haha yeah. im pretty sure you were the one to post it? hope you dont mind that i put it up... i love it.

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06-30-2011, 01:17 AM
  #57
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Another 1st and it should get done, right? EJ can easily turn his career around, Mueller showed flashes of being a fist line winger and those 1st's will more than likely be top 15 so... Yeah that could get it done if they wanted to move him (which they don't)
No it couldn't. It would never in any realm be considered. A guy "getting his career on track", a guy that shows flashes of being a good player every once in awhile, and unproven draft picks....umm please god stop.


Malkin has the potential to be the best player in the NHL at any given time. That trade is not feasible any way you look at it.

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06-30-2011, 01:20 AM
  #58
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LOL @ not wanting to give up Tavares for Malkin. You are saying a top young player who hasn't done much in the NHL is worth more than a franchise player who already won the scoring race once and was the most valuable player in the playoffs?
I don't see the Islanders trading John Tavares. This isn't simply about one-for-one talent of two different types of players. You would have to take cap hit into account when equating the deal from the NYI. The only way I'd see Pittsburgh moving Malkin is if they wanted to maneuver around and shed payroll. The NYI deal allows them to do this.

Obviously, Malkin has a lot of tools. He's an amazing package of a player. I don't want to take anything away from him. That said, the NYI aren't enough of a better team with him when we take into account the opportunity cost of this deal.

For one, John Tavares has shown strong incremental improvement over the course of two seasons. (I think many of us have been spoiled with a handful of players coming in and making huge impacts, Malkin included, but that doesn't mean that other players who need the time to physically adjust aren't going to be special players. Apparently, scoring 67 points in 79 games in your second season as a 20-21 year old and leading your team in scoring in your first two professional seasons isn't proving anything because of the new standards.) John Tavares is never going to be as dynamic offensively as Malkin, but I do think JT is going to be awfully important to his club and extremely effective at less of a cost. Since we're building actual teams here, that's an important consideration.

In NHL 2011, I'd trade John Tavares one-for-one for Malkin without even questioning it. However, when considering salary, opportunity cost, the intangibles of trading the drafted face of the franchise, and the rest of the assets that would be required to obtain Malkin, it's not really in the NYI's best interest to pursue the trade.

I'd love to add Malkin, but the NYI would have to give up pieces that they would wish to play on the same team with him and add more salary than they can at this time.

Since the OP was looking for value, and I consider cap hit part of the value, I think the NYI deal is a good starting point. How much much beyond that is required depends on what the rest of the league starts throwing out there. That said, the NYI aren't interested in making this kind of deal because of the opportunity cost of the deal.

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Mitch


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06-30-2011, 01:27 AM
  #59
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In about 3 years from now, Hall and RNH would make Pittsburgh a better team than Malkin would, IMO.

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06-30-2011, 01:31 AM
  #60
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Yah...No for the Boston trade. No need for an overpayment with Boston's best prospect, Seguin, and a guy who just put up twenty goals and beasted every team he played against.

Unnecessary, pointless.

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06-30-2011, 01:33 AM
  #61
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OK, here are some reasoning:
  • LA Kings
    • Dustin Brown
    • Jonathan Bernier
    • Kyle Clifford
    • 1st in 12 or 13
    Here, Brown can play on the top line and be a physical force, Clifford seems to be a potential top 6 player. Bernier was a little off the wall, but he should be cheaper, and plays at a similar level and Fleury; in the future, Fleury can be swapped for another organizational need. If Bernier doesn't work, then maybe someone like Hickey would do.
  • Philadephia Flyers
    • James vanRiemsdyk
    • Wayne Simmonds
    • Eric Gustafsson
    The Pens get two future top 6 wings, and plus a pretty sure shot top 4 D. Although there isn't Malkin Cliber player here, the next several years the Pens get a lot deeper. Phillie can really use a world class center, so someone like Briere can slide to 2nd.
  • Phoenix Coyotes
    • Keith Yandle
    • Mikkel Bodker
    • Brandon Gormley
    Yandle would be #1 D on the Pens, and is close to Malkin caliber player. And this probably gives Pitts the most formidable D corps for next year. Bodker and Gormley sigificantly add to Pens' prospect pool depth. Upfront they will be a little thinner; but it could work out in the long term
  • St. Louis Blues
    • David Backes
    • T.J. Oshie
    • Roman Polak
    • 1st in 12 or 13
    Backes would look pretty sick playing PF along side of Crosby. Oshie would slide in nicely along side of Staal; so the Pens top 6 would be set. Polak is a decent young 4-5 D that rounds out the D corps, and the future of the team should be very balanced.
  • Boston Bruins
    • Tyler Seguin
    • Doug Hamilton
    • Brad Marchand
    OK, perhaps adding Hamilton was a bit much. But maybe we can switch out Hamilton with someone like Kampfer. That would probably make this a futures for the present trade. With Malkin, the Bruins probably would be unchallenged in terms of strength at forwards, and would likely repeat this year, which is what really counts.
  • NY Islanders
    • John Tavares
    • Andrew MacDonald
    • Kiril Petrov
    Similarly, Tavares has the utmost potential of someone like Malkin, but is a huge risk. MacDonald is a signficant piece that mitigates the risk of development; and Petrov is just a throw-in to add a bit depth to the prospect pool.

Are any of these values terribly off?

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06-30-2011, 01:34 AM
  #62
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I don't see the Islanders trading John Tavares. This isn't simply about one-for-one talent of two different types of players. You would have to take cap hit into account when equating the deal from the NYI. The only way I'd see Pittsburgh moving Malkin is if they wanted to maneuver around and shed payroll. The NYI deal allows them to do this.

Obviously, Malkin has a lot of tools. He's an amazing package of a player. I don't want to take anything away from him. That said, the NYI aren't enough of a better team with him when we take into account the opportunity cost of this deal.

For one, John Tavares has shown strong incremental improvement over the course of two seasons. (I think many of us have been spoiled with a handful of players coming in and making huge impacts, Malkin included, but that doesn't mean that other players who need the time to physically adjust aren't going to be special players. Apparently, scoring 67 points in 79 games in your second season as a 20-21 year old and leading your team in scoring in your first two professional seasons isn't proving anything because of the new standards.) John Tavares is never going to be as dynamic offensively as Malkin, but I do think JT is going to be awfully important to his club and extremely effective at less of a cost. Since we're building actual teams here, that's an important consideration.

In NHL 2011, I'd trade John Tavares one-for-one for Malkin without even questioning it. However, hen considering salary, opportunity cost, the intangibles of trading the drafted face of the franchise, and the rest of the assets that would be required to obtain Malkin, it's not really in the NYI's best interest to pursue the trade.

I'd love to add Malkin, but the NYI would have to give up pieces that they would wish to play on the same team with him and add more salary than they can at this time.

Since the OP was looking for value, and I consider cap hit part of the value, I think the NYI deal is a good starting point. How much much beyond that is required depends on what the rest of the league starts throwing out there. That said, the NYI aren't interested in making this kind of deal because of the opportunity cost of the deal.

,
Mitch
I dont know about that what I have watched of Tavares he will soon be a scoring beast, He also did not have a Crosby as a pp linemate as Malkin did when first breaking in. J Tavares to imo will be in the top 5 in scoring for many years to come.

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06-30-2011, 01:38 AM
  #63
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Malkin to the KHL so these threads go away
quit being a fan of hockey if you would prefer the NHL have less top talent so your internet browsing has less topics that you don't enjoy, and don't even have to read.

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06-30-2011, 01:38 AM
  #64
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OK, here are some reasoning:
[list][*]LA Kings
  • Dustin Brown
  • Jonathan Bernier
  • Kyle Clifford
  • 1st in 12 or 13
Here, Brown can play on the top line and be a physical force, Clifford seems to be a potential top 6 player. Bernier was a little off the wall, but he should be cheaper, and plays at a similar level and Fleury; in the future, Fleury can be swapped for another organizational need. If Bernier doesn't work, then maybe someone like Hickey would do.
Some corrections.

Bernier is an absolute stud. he is a potential franchise goalie, did very well in the AHL before jumping into the NHL as a backup, he will challenge Quick for the number 1 spot, did very well as the season got down to the final games.

Clifford is the perfect 3rd line left winger. he will fight anyone and everyone, will stick up for teamates, has actual hockey sense, so he's not just an agitator.

don't involve Hickey in this conversation, he is miles away from being anywhere close to Bernier's level.

Kings will not do this deal. ever.

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06-30-2011, 01:45 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by newoilburnsclean View Post
I dont know about that what I have watched of Tavares he will soon be a scoring beast, He also did not have a Crosby as a pp linemate as Malkin did when first breaking in. J Tavares to imo will be in the top 5 in scoring for many years to come.
Eh, this is probably just semantics, I just meant that John Tavares doesn't have the same physical tools to create offense as Malkin. The players are going to put up offense in different ways. John Tavares won't be able to create as much offense on his own with the puck starting in the defensive end. John Tavares won't be creating offense as directly as Malkin could on a rush with the puck. John Tavares doesn't own an extremely hard shot that can help him score from far out.

That said, once the play is already in the offensive zone, John Tavares is/will be deadly on his own. John Tavares reads plays extremely well (in all zones, actually.) John Tavares made PA Parenteau a 50-point player. Obviously, I'm not putting down John Tavares. I actually think he's a special player. He just doesn't have all of the physical tools that Malkin does. Of course, JT's best tools are his brains and vision, and those are a lot harder to judge (and Malkin isn't exactly an idiot out there.)

In the end, the value of these players will come down to the points and wins they help produce. For now, Malkin easily wins that race. How many points and wins will JT help produce in the future? I'm not sure, but I'm not interested in trading those away, especially when all other costs are factored in.

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Mitch

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06-30-2011, 01:49 AM
  #66
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this whole thread...



You START with other superstars. The NYI one is the only one here that's even remotely close. Teams to start discussion with are Anaheim (Perry+), Chicago (Kane+), New Jersey (Kovalchuk+), and not many others.

STOP POSTING MALKIN TRADE THREADS. us pens fans are getting ********

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06-30-2011, 01:49 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by mitchy22 View Post
Eh, this is probably just semantics, I just meant that John Tavares doesn't have the same physical tools to create offense as Malkin. The players are going to put up offense in different ways. John Tavares won't be able to create as much offense on his own with the puck starting in the defensive end. John Tavares won't be creating offensive as directly as Malkin could on a rush with the puck. John Tavares doesn't own an extremely hard shot that can help him score from far out.

That said, once the play is already in the offensive zone, John Tavares is/will be deadly on his own. John Tavares reads plays extremely well (in all zones, actually.) John Tavares made PA Parenteau a 50-point player. Obviously, I'm not putting down John Tavares. I actually think he's a special player. He just doesn't have all of the physical tools that Malkin does. Of course, JT's best tools are his brains and vision, and those are a lot harder to judge (and Malkin isn't exactly an idiot out there.)

,
Mitch
Agreed but one thing that Malkin does not have is J Tavares hands probably the best I have seen in the last 4 decades of hockey.

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06-30-2011, 01:53 AM
  #68
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Some corrections.

Bernier is an absolute stud. he is a potential franchise goalie, did very well in the AHL before jumping into the NHL as a backup, he will challenge Quick for the number 1 spot, did very well as the season got down to the final games.

Clifford is the perfect 3rd line left winger. he will fight anyone and everyone, will stick up for teamates, has actual hockey sense, so he's not just an agitator.

don't involve Hickey in this conversation, he is miles away from being anywhere close to Bernier's level.

Kings will not do this deal. ever.
Neither would the Pens, so no point of even discussing this trade.

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06-30-2011, 01:56 AM
  #69
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Agreed but one thing that Malkin does not have is J Tavares hands probably the best I have seen in the last 4 decades of hockey.
I wasn't trying to get into a one-to-one comparison of the players. JT has very good hands, can use them well in traffic, starts and stops extremely well, and plays an odd sort of power game for a finesse forward down low. His strength, top-end speed and stamina were his biggest weaknesses when he got here. He's continued to actually improve in all of those areas. Even if his top-end speed won't be the greatest, he still has a strong first two strides. He's not immobile at all. His outside shot will probably end up being the weakest thing about him, but even that I can't judge until I see him playing at his strongest.

The fact that JT has done so well in working on his weaknesses during his first two seasons is actually why I'd hate to see him traded. I didn't even get to mention all of the good things about him. I just think it's silly to think that he has all of the same physical tools as Malkin because he really just doesn't. Let's also not pretend like Malkin has bad hands or zero finesse with the puck or that he can't do things with the puck at high speed (speeds that JT will never reach.)

,
Mitch

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06-30-2011, 02:03 AM
  #70
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Tampa... Stamkos?
As lucrative as a trade that would be, Malkin fits better in Pit, Stammers fits better in Tampa

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06-30-2011, 02:08 AM
  #71
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Source?
http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Te...ary_cap_thou=3

There you go - Malkin is an UFA in 2014. There is by definition ZERO guarantee an UFA will resign with any given team. So......the player you sell the farm for may bolt in 3 years and there's jack all you can do about it if he wants to.

Malkin isn't worth ANY of these proposals until he proves he's healthy and returned to form. He has the second highest cap hit in the league and that matters. Even if he returns to form it's less and less likely he gets any return like what is being asked for the closer he gets to UFA.

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06-30-2011, 02:13 AM
  #72
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Malkin has been dealing with injuries the past couple years and his production has dropped. I'm a huge fan of Malkin, but his value is being slightly overrated. Pittsburgh would still get a good return since I'm sure he can still be a PPG player in this league easily, but at this point in time you really don't know what you're going to get out of him. That hurts his trade value.

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06-30-2011, 02:25 AM
  #73
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Parise (signed), urbom and henrique
Parise signed for 6-7 years at a good price with Larsson would have me extremely intrigued.

Can people stop using this major injury excuse? Malkin was healthy enough to return in the playoffs had we made it far enough. He's "in the best shape of his life" and working "harder than ever" according to some inside sources.

Malkin is returning to his original form. The lowball offers over his injury are pretty awful when people don't do research about it.

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06-30-2011, 02:38 AM
  #74
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Parise signed for 6-7 years at a good price with Larsson would have me extremely intrigued.

Can people stop using this major injury excuse? Malkin was healthy enough to return in the playoffs had we made it far enough. He's "in the best shape of his life" and working "harder than ever" according to some inside sources.

Malkin is returning to his original form. The lowball offers over his injury are pretty awful when people don't do research about it.
Malkin is the 2nd highest compensated player in the league and hasn't played like it in 3 years. Until he ACTUALLY does Pens fans should stop expecting to be compensated like he has.

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06-30-2011, 02:44 AM
  #75
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Malkin is the 2nd highest compensated player in the league and hasn't played like it in 3 years. Until he ACTUALLY does Pens fans should stop expecting to be compensated like he has.




Picture taken just over 2 years ago. When he was unarguably the best player in the universe.

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