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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2011-12 Season Thread (Pt.2)

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Old
07-27-2011, 10:24 AM
  #151
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So it's official. Windsor will be hosting the 2012 U17 Tournament. The Tournament has been moved here from Winnipeg. (As per windsorspitfires.com)

I'm guessing maybe that this is due to lack of ice time available at the MTS Centre what with having an NHL franchise now?

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07-27-2011, 10:27 AM
  #152
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think u are being too harsh

all the above players are nhl drafted and appear to be fastracking their careers

barber and schmaltz are both 17,i expect barber next year after he is drafted by

the nhl and schmaltz maybe depending on who drafts him

afterall windsor got ryan and campbell post nhl drafted and u did not say anything

there
You're right about fastracking but Campbell didn't even sign his LOI to Michigan. He knew in November that he wasn't going to be at Michigan in September. I think in the case of Ryan he just didn't want university as he did actually show up on campus. I just have a tough time figuring out how Rychel can't recruit these guys. The team is absolutely starving for talent. Schmaltz would probably be the best D on Windsor. Barber would be a top line guy at forward. Rychel has a lot to sell these kids and can't get them to bite? If you can't sell past success, lots of ice time and lots of scouts to see you play it's to re-examine the blueprint because it's not working.

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07-27-2011, 10:49 AM
  #153
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You're right about fastracking but Campbell didn't even sign his LOI to Michigan. He knew in November that he wasn't going to be at Michigan in September. I think in the case of Ryan he just didn't want university as he did actually show up on campus. I just have a tough time figuring out how Rychel can't recruit these guys. The team is absolutely starving for talent. Schmaltz would probably be the best D on Windsor. Barber would be a top line guy at forward. Rychel has a lot to sell these kids and can't get them to bite? If you can't sell past success, lots of ice time and lots of scouts to see you play it's to re-examine the blueprint because it's not working.
This is surprising, especially since Sarnia is signing everything is sight. There is supposedly a news conference today where there is rumour that they will sign Murphy and possibly even Boucher.

Not sure why people would all of a sudden shy away from Windsor, especially since the graduating players are having success getting to the pros.

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07-27-2011, 11:33 AM
  #154
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This is surprising, especially since Sarnia is signing everything is sight. There is supposedly a news conference today where there is rumour that they will sign Murphy and possibly even Boucher.

Not sure why people would all of a sudden shy away from Windsor, especially since the graduating players are having success getting to the pros.
I really don't think that's the case... Rayzor is being a bit too critical of the situation.

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07-27-2011, 11:35 AM
  #155
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Sometimes a team is not going to get everybody they draft

recently the spits signed sought after forward ben johnson

i dont see a problem with windsor yet

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07-27-2011, 11:49 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
Sometimes a team is not going to get everybody they draft

recently the spits signed sought after forward ben johnson

i dont see a problem with windsor yet
I don't expect a team to get everybody but since Campbell it looks like Rychel is pulling and ofer. Johns, Barber, Schmaltz and Pietila. We can haggle on Johns but the last 3 we can't because it is what it is. As for Johnson we shall see big step up from MHSAA to OHL. Will be interesting to see how he shows.

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07-27-2011, 11:57 AM
  #157
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I really don't think that's the case... Rayzor is being a bit too critical of the situation.
I don't think I am being too criticial I think I am just discussing the reality of the situation. Right now I think the organization top priority now is to make a lot of money and not necessarily put the best product out on the ice. Before I get people start saying if they have a great team they get more fans. At this time the organization isn't going to stop drawing less than 5000 a game regardless of the team that's on the ice they will be making a large profit. I think we have even seen it with London, not necessarily concerned with getting a championship more concerned with getting fans through the gates and making money. It's a big business now and with the recent success of Windsor it's probably bought them a few years of poor teams coming up.

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07-27-2011, 01:05 PM
  #158
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Rayzor would I be mistaken if I was to guess that your real issue with the Spitfire organization is that they are charging top dollar, making it a real crunch for many fans your self maybe included. Because it isn't a cheap night out no doubts about it. And that they cannot provide the team to justify that cost do to the fact it is impossible to maintain a championship level finished product at the junior level year after year.

Really cost to the fan aside the direction of the team is clear for this coming season. The roster is filled with young prospects and two impact imports coming back. A championship team, no way and it will be a struggle on many nights but a good foundation for the next cycle in the coming years. It will be like most of the other seasons in the past 30 years of Spitfire hockey really but I have faith the guys calling the shots will develop a good team again in the years to come.

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07-27-2011, 01:39 PM
  #159
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This situation reminds me of baseball.

A player goes 4/5 in his first game, but then 1/10 in this next three. People go "what the hell?", not realizing he's still batting .300, which is extremely good.

Is WR swinging a missing on a few guys? Sure. It happens, though. You're not going to win every battle and props to Sarnia for being able to get a few guys in there.

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07-27-2011, 01:43 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I don't expect a team to get everybody but since Campbell it looks like Rychel is pulling and ofer. Johns, Barber, Schmaltz and Pietila. We can haggle on Johns but the last 3 we can't because it is what it is. As for Johnson we shall see big step up from MHSAA to OHL. Will be interesting to see how he shows.
One thing i know is rychel is relentless in his pursuit of talented usa born players

with barber he offered the gold package,he still would not come

as a hedge he signed johnson,who received a gold package to sign

johnson had the -18 program and various universities on his trail

keep in mind a team is only allowed 7 gold packs windsor is at 5

u have to think about next year as 1 will go to the ist rder[league rule}

windsor only has 1 to play with because of next year and i know they are trying

to sign mark freidman-dman

you can bet he is only signing with gold package in his pocket

i think that takes schmaltz out of the mix

besides he would here for 2 years tops ,gone before the supposed 2013-14 run

as i mentioned before the majority of players signing are older then barber

and schmaltz and have decided to fast track

pielita not a big loss to me,again only here for 2

as for johns,would have been better he were here

at least he can fite in the O,now he will take some beatings in the ahl when he

leaves college

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Old
07-27-2011, 02:01 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I don't think I am being too criticial I think I am just discussing the reality of the situation. Right now I think the organization top priority now is to make a lot of money and not necessarily put the best product out on the ice. Before I get people start saying if they have a great team they get more fans. At this time the organization isn't going to stop drawing less than 5000 a game regardless of the team that's on the ice they will be making a large profit. I think we have even seen it with London, not necessarily concerned with getting a championship more concerned with getting fans through the gates and making money. It's a big business now and with the recent success of Windsor it's probably bought them a few years of poor teams coming up.
I do notice your posts generally have a negative slant,dont know if u have a hard on

for rychel or something

I would take his success record against anybody in the O ,or anywhere in the CHL

2 mem cups, and a final four spot pretty impressive last 3 years

i think its natural that a drop off is evident,but the the sky is falling attitude u

portray is a bit unrealistic and disengenous

heck the Knights have only 1 mem cup under the Hunters,and that was during

the lockout year,and home ice to boot

windsor had to endure losses of josh bailey for mm cup 1.loss of loktionov

in mem cup 2, and losses fo hall and fowler this past year for the final 4 spot

because of early graduation

kitchener loses skinner and morin and cant get past the ist rd

just sayin

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07-27-2011, 02:23 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
I do notice your posts generally have a negative slant,dont know if u have a hard on

for rychel or something

I would take his success record against anybody in the O ,or anywhere in the CHL

2 mem cups, and a final four spot pretty impressive last 3 years

i think its natural that a drop off is evident,but the the sky is falling attitude u

portray is a bit unrealistic and disengenous

heck the Knights have only 1 mem cup under the Hunters,and that was during

the lockout year,and home ice to boot

windsor had to endure losses of josh bailey for mm cup 1.loss of loktionov

in mem cup 2, and losses fo hall and fowler this past year for the final 4 spot

because of early graduation

kitchener loses skinner and morin and cant get past the ist rd

just sayin
I think Rychel has done a terrific job up until this point but if you look over the past 2 years player development and drafting has taken a bit of a hit. I don't think anybody has been happy with the development of Duininck and Webermin. The Brassard trade was necessary to get another OHL title but do you believe by himself Brassard was a good 1st round draft pick by the Spitfires? We already discussed the Watson trade and it will continue to be a good debate. If you look at the recent drafts the best player out of the past 2 drafts 09 10 the best player to come out of those 2 drafts was Khokhlachev and Eric Locke and he's not even in the organization anymore. You can make a case for Ebert but that was also part of dealing away assets to get him. I am talking purely draft and development and that is Locke. I have no doubt Rychel works hard but we need to look at the big picture as far as drafting and development goes and the Spits haven't done a good job of that the past 2 years.

Yes I agree the track record to this point is very good but looking big picture it's quite likely the Spits are either looking at an 8th seed or out of the playoffs this year. If that happens through 6 years it's 2 non playoff years. I recall that Rychel stated he would never go through another year like he did his first in Windsor well it's kind of shaping up like his first year right now.

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07-27-2011, 02:45 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I think Rychel has done a terrific job up until this point but if you look over the past 2 years player development and drafting has taken a bit of a hit. I don't think anybody has been happy with the development of Duininck and Webermin. The Brassard trade was necessary to get another OHL title but do you believe by himself Brassard was a good 1st round draft pick by the Spitfires? We already discussed the Watson trade and it will continue to be a good debate. If you look at the recent drafts the best player out of the past 2 drafts 09 10 the best player to come out of those 2 drafts was Khokhlachev and Eric Locke and he's not even in the organization anymore. You can make a case for Ebert but that was also part of dealing away assets to get him. I am talking purely draft and development and that is Locke. I have no doubt Rychel works hard but we need to look at the big picture as far as drafting and development goes and the Spits haven't done a good job of that the past 2 years.

Yes I agree the track record to this point is very good but looking big picture it's quite likely the Spits are either looking at an 8th seed or out of the playoffs this year. If that happens through 6 years it's 2 non playoff years. I recall that Rychel stated he would never go through another year like he did his first in Windsor well it's kind of shaping up like his first year right now.

u forgot kuhnhackl,he was drafted in 2009

i still think windsor will get a playoff spot,6th to 8th and thats find by me

as for brassard the fact that windsor got assets to help them win a mem cup

then i have no problem where windsor drafted him

i think he has talent,winnipeg does too,but he has to want it to be successful

as for duininck vancouver has invited him to rookie camp i think his progress

overall is fine,i beat up a 17 year old playing major minutes like he did last year

re webermin an injury really stalled his development at the start of last season

and he really had trouble adjusting especially with lack of suze and strength

i think the jury is still out on this kid,this year is large for him

rayzor if u asked the folks out there,would they take 2 mem cups,a final 4,

a tie for ist in division in year 2,a missed playoff spot and a 6th to 8th finsih

every 6 years most would do it

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07-27-2011, 02:45 PM
  #164
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Webermin and Vail were very unhappy last season and Campbell struggled. Duininck wasn't drafted. The lockerroom was a mess. Now Boughner is probably coming back to coach so maybe that will be seen as a blip.

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07-27-2011, 02:51 PM
  #165
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Webermin and Vail were very unhappy last season and Campbell struggled. Duininck wasn't drafted. The lockerroom was a mess. Now Boughner is probably coming back to coach so maybe that will be seen as a blip.
just because duinink was not drafted should not matter,heck petgrave for OS

was not drafted either and he is better then many drafted d-men

cant argue about campbell however going to the final 4 despite his troubles

was pretty impressive

i would agree boughner returning will calm the waters,players were not happy

with jones and smith

most went to matsos with their problems

windsor not the ist team to have issues

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07-27-2011, 03:08 PM
  #166
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When you're in the midst of 2 championship runs, drafting and development can be put on the back-burner.

Last year was a very odd season. With the amount of talent turnover we were expecting, a decision to rebuild was made in the summer with the trade with Missy. Combine Ellis carrying the team and the young guys over-achieving, the rebuild was put on hold and the team made the Conference championships. Some development was put on the back burner again (Webermin).

There's no way around it this year... development has to be and will be the main focus this season. With Boughner returning to the mix, one would hope the internal turmoil last year will be sorted out.

As for the drafting, during the runs Rychel could afford to go with the US kids as it wasn't all that important to get the warm body draft picks. Last draft Rychel changed it up and went for more warm bodies. That draft showed from promise in camp and and hopefully some of them are ready to step into the lineup this season. The same thing for this years draft. Time will only tell when the likes of Maletta, Dekort, Smith and Studnika can do.

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07-27-2011, 03:11 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by hockeylegend11 View Post
u forgot kuhnhackl,he was drafted in 2009

i still think windsor will get a playoff spot,6th to 8th and thats find by me

as for brassard the fact that windsor got assets to help them win a mem cup

then i have no problem where windsor drafted him

i think he has talent,winnipeg does too,but he has to want it to be successful

as for duininck vancouver has invited him to rookie camp i think his progress

overall is fine,i beat up a 17 year old playing major minutes like he did last year

re webermin an injury really stalled his development at the start of last season

and he really had trouble adjusting especially with lack of suze and strength

i think the jury is still out on this kid,this year is large for him

rayzor if u asked the folks out there,would they take 2 mem cups,a final 4,

a tie for ist in division in year 2,a missed playoff spot and a 6th to 8th finsih

every 6 years most would do it
True on Kuhnhackl. We disagree on Duininck any time in your draft eligible year and being a high pick in the OHL you don't get drafted that's a disappointment and reflects on the organization. We can agree on Webermin problem is though this year his draft eligible year will in essence be his rookie year and first year of development.

Over 6 years I think everybody would accept that the catch is you can't expect something like that every 6 years or so. If the Spits in the following 6 years have a year of no playoffs, some nice playoff runs but no championships I don't think people would be as forgiving. To put it in perspective fans can say they will look forward to watching the kids play because they have thoughts of guys like Nemisz, Henrique, Cundari, Watson, Ellis, Hall, Blacker dancing in their heads. Fact is not all prospects pan out to be NHL drafted and very good OHL players.

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07-27-2011, 03:18 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
True on Kuhnhackl. We disagree on Duininck any time in your draft eligible year and being a high pick in the OHL you don't get drafted that's a disappointment and reflects on the organization. We can agree on Webermin problem is though this year his draft eligible year will in essence be his rookie year and first year of development.

Over 6 years I think everybody would accept that the catch is you can't expect something like that every 6 years or so. If the Spits in the following 6 years have a year of no playoffs, some nice playoff runs but no championships I don't think people would be as forgiving. To put it in perspective fans can say they will look forward to watching the kids play because they have thoughts of guys like Nemisz, Henrique, Cundari, Watson, Ellis, Hall, Blacker dancing in their heads. Fact is not all prospects pan out to be NHL drafted and very good OHL players.
It was more than chance that all these guys were drafted by the Spits, became good/great OHL players and get drafted into the NHL. You don't catch lightning in a bottle like that so many times. Credit has to be given to Boughner and the coaching staff for turning those players into what they are.

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07-27-2011, 03:19 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Libbs View Post
When you're in the midst of 2 championship runs, drafting and development can be put on the back-burner.

Last year was a very odd season. With the amount of talent turnover we were expecting, a decision to rebuild was made in the summer with the trade with Missy. Combine Ellis carrying the team and the young guys over-achieving, the rebuild was put on hold and the team made the Conference championships. Some development was put on the back burner again (Webermin).

There's no way around it this year... development has to be and will be the main focus this season. With Boughner returning to the mix, one would hope the internal turmoil last year will be sorted out.

As for the drafting, during the runs Rychel could afford to go with the US kids as it wasn't all that important to get the warm body draft picks. Last draft Rychel changed it up and went for more warm bodies. That draft showed from promise in camp and and hopefully some of them are ready to step into the lineup this season. The same thing for this years draft. Time will only tell when the likes of Maletta, Dekort, Smith and Studnika can do.
very good pts libbs

i have taught u well i see lol

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07-27-2011, 03:22 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Ottomatic View Post
Webermin and Vail were very unhappy last season and Campbell struggled. Duininck wasn't drafted. The lockerroom was a mess. Now Boughner is probably coming back to coach so maybe that will be seen as a blip.
I talked to vail acouple of weeks ago and from the last time i seen him before that he is strong and your can notice it...
he is taking what happened to him last year and putting it into a positive way.

he is going to be a good 3rd line center next year

also i have seen studnicka and kerby on the ice last sunday at a power point camp... and DAMN do they look good together
i didnt get time to talk to him .

hockeylegend11 - do you know if he signed with the spits?
he was in spit gear and it looked like he is going to suit up next year wearing number 15 ?

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07-27-2011, 03:24 PM
  #171
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Do you foresee any changes to your past post of best/worse case scenario for 2011/2012?

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07-27-2011, 03:28 PM
  #172
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I talked to vail acouple of weeks ago and from the last time i seen him before that he is strong and your can notice it...
he is taking what happened to him last year and putting it into a positive way.

he is going to be a good 3rd line center next year

also i have seen studnicka and kerby on the ice last sunday at a power point camp... and DAMN do they look good together
i didnt get time to talk to him .

hockeylegend11 - do you know if he signed with the spits?
he was in spit gear and it looked like he is going to suit up next year wearing number 15 ?
dont think he will wearing #15 next year

that number is retired previously worn by Ernie Godden

dont know if he has been signed,do know they are high on him

i expect studnika,smith dekort and maletta to be signed before camp

goes to exibition season

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07-27-2011, 03:30 PM
  #173
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It was more than chance that all these guys were drafted by the Spits, became good/great OHL players and get drafted into the NHL. You don't catch lightning in a bottle like that so many times. Credit has to be given to Boughner and the coaching staff for turning those players into what they are.
I agree with that but just as the organization deserves credit for all them they should receive criticism over the past two years regardless if the organization is trying to make runs.

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07-27-2011, 03:45 PM
  #174
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Rayzor would I be mistaken if I was to guess that your real issue with the Spitfire organization is that they are charging top dollar, making it a real crunch for many fans your self maybe included. Because it isn't a cheap night out no doubts about it. And that they cannot provide the team to justify that cost do to the fact it is impossible to maintain a championship level finished product at the junior level year after year.

Really cost to the fan aside the direction of the team is clear for this coming season. The roster is filled with young prospects and two impact imports coming back. A championship team, no way and it will be a struggle on many nights but a good foundation for the next cycle in the coming years. It will be like most of the other seasons in the past 30 years of Spitfire hockey really but I have faith the guys calling the shots will develop a good team again in the years to come.
In regards to your first paragraph absolutely it's become too expensive. For a team and league that prides itself on development and being geared towards families it isn't that anymore. It doesn't even have to do with how good the team is either, I guess if the team was better they could justify the prices but still prices are too high.

I am fine with the direction of the team just don't like hearing how this will be an exciting team and how it's like the rookie year of Hall and Ellis. That's not even close to being true and it's ridiculous to make statements like that.

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07-27-2011, 03:51 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
In regards to your first paragraph absolutely it's become too expensive. For a team and league that prides itself on development and being geared towards families it isn't that anymore. It doesn't even have to do with how good the team is either, I guess if the team was better they could justify the prices but still prices are too high.

I am fine with the direction of the team just don't like hearing how this will be an exciting team and how it's like the rookie year of Hall and Ellis. That's not even close to being true and it's ridiculous to make statements like that.
u are correct prices are too high,good team or not

windsor should not be the highest price ticket in the league

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