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Stars sign Dvorak, Fiddler, Pardy, and Dowell

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Old
07-04-2011, 11:50 PM
  #76
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I have a feeling later this season we'll regret signing Pardy and not throwing an extra mil or so at Hannan. Seems like a much better shutdown option.

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07-05-2011, 01:18 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Caseman View Post
If you have to ask who players are, then don't comment on the roster moves. The Stars weren't going to sign a superstar. Your expectations were child-like in ignorance and stupidity.
If I have to ask who the players are, then they probably aren't any GOOD.

You can't issue a rebuttal without insulting somebody, yet you claim I'm "childish". Okay.

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Read up and you'll find each player brings a strength or attribute to this Stars roster.
Wake up and you'll realize this organization is fast becoming one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league.

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07-05-2011, 01:19 PM
  #78
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This is a fun game. What would you have done?
Depends; how far back in time do you want me to go?

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07-05-2011, 01:21 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Ogi1Kenobi View Post
Just because Fiddler or Dvorak are not superstars doesn't mean their useless. An ideal team needs a gritty bottom six to be successful. Each of those players you aimlessly throw aside bring their own contributions - which is improving the PK. A true HOCKEY fan knows this. Which is why your evaluation lacks any form of credibility and reflects ignorance.
They were never "superstars".

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07-05-2011, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CampbellBetterBeGOD View Post
Don't even bother, it seems that every time I see this guy post, it's just to ***** about things regardless of the teams involved.
I'm so sorry I cause you such grief. Would you like a cookie?

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07-05-2011, 01:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Stevonidas View Post
They were never "superstars".
He didn't state that they were superstars.

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07-05-2011, 01:38 PM
  #82
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Depends; how far back in time do you want me to go?
Hmm I don't know. I could ask you to go back to circa 1996; I'm sure you had some issues with those 1998-2000 teams.

Given that this is a thread dedicated to free agent signings of the past week, perhaps you could enlighten us all as to what Nieuwendyk should have done differently this go 'round. Before you go to all that trouble though I'm curious what you think the real problem areas of the team were prior to July 1. What did the roster need? What was the team bad at last season? Point out the problems and then choose some solutions.

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07-05-2011, 02:20 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Stevonidas View Post
If I have to ask who the players are, then they probably aren't any GOOD.

You can't issue a rebuttal without insulting somebody, yet you claim I'm "childish". Okay.



Wake up and you'll realize this organization is fast becoming one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league.
How so?

I have yet to find any links or posts stating what a laughing stock we are.

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Old
07-05-2011, 02:55 PM
  #84
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In all fairness, there is no question that Joe "lost" on the Richards deal. We lost our best player for nothing. The 'win" if any of these signings is that they are short-term. Really though is getting Fiddler for three years at 1.5 a win if Konopka went for one year at 700k or Nichol at 600k. Is ryder a win if gagne went at the same price? The Pardy deal is inexplicable although again it is only for 2 years but the guy is a 7th d man-I thought for sure it had to be 2 years , $2 mill total. Souray is a gamble and Mccabe is still out there and babcock was not much more. I like Dvorek and price was ok.

Yes the lower lines need help but again we spent 10 million and the team just really is not that good if you look at the ability to score and the defense (is adding a 7th d-man and Souray an upgrade?).

I think the Stars are not very well thought of league-wide. No owner, a young GM, a rookie coach. Most pundits have them missing the playoffs.

As for the way Joe conducts business. Remember the initial rap on the Neal deal was that some teams did not know he was available. Joe's M.O. seems to be target certain guys and be willing to overpay either in assets or dollars or draft them too early. Not a great trait for a team with lots of needs on a budget. Joe is trying to walk the fine line between rebuilding and making the playoffs with a rookie coach and losing his best player. He is not good enough at what he does to succeed. Again this team won't contend for years at this rate. To ultimately lose Morrow , Robidas to age without getting something would be criminal. I suspect the deadline could be different this year and we do not delude ourselves. At least I hope so.

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07-05-2011, 03:21 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Stevonidas View Post
If I have to ask who the players are, then they probably aren't any GOOD.

You can't issue a rebuttal without insulting somebody, yet you claim I'm "childish". Okay.



Wake up and you'll realize this organization is fast becoming one of the biggest laughing stocks in the league.
Just do us a favor and just leave.... please, just get out and never come back. Cool? Thanks

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07-05-2011, 03:30 PM
  #86
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I'm torn. I really, truly believe that a lot of Stars fans under appreciated Brad Richards when he was in Dallas and I think they still do now. He was an elite two-way NHL center and you don't find them that easily.

I think Mike Ribeiro is at best a 1A who does have some defensive shortcomings, and while Jamie Benn is developing nicely, it's a big responsibility to ask him to step into Richards' shoes. Seems the Stars thought that too if the Connolly rumours were correct.

All that said, I think Nieuwendyk's moves this off-season help. The lower six will be better, Souray will add the big booming shot from the point lost (but not quite the vision), and he was right in targeting Burish out of nowhere, so if he was this adament about guys like Pardy, maybe I'm willing to give him the doubt though.

I'd still like to see another bonafide top six forward and a bit more improvement on the back end to see the team improve and to make it more marketable to fans.

San Jose and Los Angeles, in particular, have made good moves, and you'll probably have teams like the Wild and Blues pushing hard for that playoff spot as well. At the end of the day, it's still no guarantee.

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07-05-2011, 03:34 PM
  #87
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Starsdude, in all fairness, it's impossible to know if we "won" or "lost" the Richards situation; we haven't played any games yet without him and with the new crew.

However, what we do know is that the team hadn't made the playoffs with him for the past three years. It's not like he put the team on his back and carried them there. So, what's the next logical thing to do? Shift money around to get more good hockey players rather than relying on a few relatively better ones to get the job done.

I question Joe's abilities from time to time as well, especially if it was true that the league generally was out of the loop that Neal was available. You have to admit though that he's been dealt a pretty difficult hand. I really think he was put in an even more difficult spot with Richards than he would admit. The player clearly wanted to go back east; hated our travel schedule, etc. That player was going to be absolutely paid come free agency and Nieuwendyk bowed out early to concentrate on ways to use that money.

I refuse to believe we lost our best player though. The media types are wont to make grand statements like that but as someone who watches this team as much as I do it's been pretty clear to me that Loui Eriksson has been this team's best player for the better part of two seasons. If Benn can keep up the level of play he showed during the second half of last season then he would also fall into that category. I still feel that Ribeiro is better than Richards; B Rich just had the opportunity to play for a coach the last two years who knew how to better utilize him than Ribs. Did we lose a good player? No doubt. We just didn't lose our best player. I also don't see that we "lost his offense" when you add Ryder, an improving Benn, and a full season of Goligoski to the scenario. These aren't one-for-one swaps; they are systemic changes to the nature of the club.

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07-05-2011, 03:35 PM
  #88
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I'm going to have to disagree with you Beaver.

Brad Richards a two-way center? Not even. If the puck was in the defensive zone he would aimlessly waltz around waiting for Louie to gain possession and then start his work from there.

Ribeiro however, is definitely a two-way center. Guy can play D and has an active stick in our zone. He's by far one of the most underrated centers in the game today. Incredibly versatile with the puck, can slow the game down to his temp, and has immaculate hands.

This team is much, much stronger without Richards. We've added pieces to multiple lines instead of one asset.

It's a team game, not the Brad Richards show. With Gully leading this team we'll see strong possession style two-way shutdown hockey. We will be contending for our division, no question.

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07-05-2011, 03:51 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Starsdude, in all fairness, it's impossible to know if we "won" or "lost" the Richards situation; we haven't played any games yet without him and with the new crew.

However, what we do know is that the team hadn't made the playoffs with him for the past three years. It's not like he put the team on his back and carried them there. So, what's the next logical thing to do? Shift money around to get more good hockey players rather than relying on a few relatively better ones to get the job done.

I question Joe's abilities from time to time as well, especially if it was true that the league generally was out of the loop that Neal was available. You have to admit though that he's been dealt a pretty difficult hand. I really think he was put in an even more difficult spot with Richards than he would admit. The player clearly wanted to go back east; hated our travel schedule, etc. That player was going to be absolutely paid come free agency and Nieuwendyk bowed out early to concentrate on ways to use that money.

I refuse to believe we lost our best player though. The media types are wont to make grand statements like that but as someone who watches this team as much as I do it's been pretty clear to me that Loui Eriksson has been this team's best player for the better part of two seasons. If Benn can keep up the level of play he showed during the second half of last season then he would also fall into that category. I still feel that Ribeiro is better than Richards; B Rich just had the opportunity to play for a coach the last two years who knew how to better utilize him than Ribs. Did we lose a good player? No doubt. We just didn't lose our best player. I also don't see that we "lost his offense" when you add Ryder, an improving Benn, and a full season of Goligoski to the scenario. These aren't one-for-one swaps; they are systemic changes to the nature of the club.
Joe's job was never easy and being broke does not help. I however felt you had to simply get something for Richards at the deadline. Joe came in high and yeah Brad had a concussion but he had value. Joe's job is to assess the team which at best was a 6-8 seed with Brad healthy. I am less sanguine in that while the budget obviously hurt depth, all we added was depth and never addressed the defense issue in any real way. remember this team sucked without Brad and as much as I like Erikkson ,he plays off others and failed to deliver when Brad was hurt.

Joe has not earn thebenefit of anyone's doubt. he has botched one coach, made questionable draft decisions, overpaid for role players, failed to get anything for his leading scorer, and failed to make the playoffs. His great deals were to pay Lehtonen more than Vokoun and Niemi, dump old has beens and get a PP qb for a very high in demand guy who was not shopped (would Neal and Nisky and the picks that went NJ have gotten Burns ???). I also think you take abig risk with benn if you fail to provide him with too much responsibilty and not enough help.

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07-05-2011, 03:54 PM
  #90
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Eh, I don't know I'd say they are much stronger without Richards because Richards was a phenomenally huge part of the offense, and all the moves they made really don't replace the point production they lost with him. Benn may produce more points in a full-time Top 6 role, but I don't think he will produce the 130 points it would take to match him and Richards from last season.

But they are better at other areas because of the new guys, at least on paper, namely the PK and backchecking in general. The question will be is being better in that area going to be enough to replace the loss of offensive firepower.

FWIW, I wouldn't consider Ribeiro a two-way center by any stretch, but he is a much better defensive player than Richards ever dreamed of being. Richards is an all-world playmaker and can be a very strong PPQB (though I think he's slightly overrated at that particular ability and can be a liability against a good shorthanded team), but he approached defense the way Blues-era Brett Hull approached defense - a fleeting acknowledgment that he probably should get back at some point.

Ribeiro is superior to him defensively if only because he hustled more on most backchecks and had a better read of where he should play positionally. But Ribeiro, for all his flashiness, is also not the playmaker Richards is.

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07-05-2011, 03:58 PM
  #91
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I'm going to have to disagree with you Beaver.

Brad Richards a two-way center? Not even. If the puck was in the defensive zone he would aimlessly waltz around waiting for Louie to gain possession and then start his work from there.

Ribeiro however, is definitely a two-way center. Guy can play D and has an active stick in our zone. He's by far one of the most underrated centers in the game today. Incredibly versatile with the puck, can slow the game down to his temp, and has immaculate hands.

This team is much, much stronger without Richards. We've added pieces to multiple lines instead of one asset.

It's a team game, not the Brad Richards show. With Gully leading this team we'll see strong possession style two-way shutdown hockey. We will be contending for our division, no question.
That is just crazy. yeah depth helps but Brad is a great player and Conn Symthe winner. He is not some Zherdev. You need more than one asset just to play all his roles. No team wants to lose a Brad Richards. So we win the division ahead of SJ with Burns and perhaps the best puck moving defense in hockey and ahead of LA who added carter and gagne. We will be lucky to finish ahead of ANA. Cin are you Newy's brother, seriously dude?

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07-05-2011, 04:06 PM
  #92
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That's ok, I'll be sure to remember both of these posts. We actually have a competent 4th line now, not a bunch of older AHL players.

Burns isn't that great after his injuries. Thornton is overrated, and Marleau show sup when he wants to show up.

LA got much, much stronger no doubt about it. We have solid lines now, not the best but solid.

You guys will be surprised at just how much an actual coach with modern coaching philosophies can impact a team.

This team WILL compete.

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07-05-2011, 04:22 PM
  #93
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I'm going to have to disagree with you Beaver.

Brad Richards a two-way center? Not even. If the puck was in the defensive zone he would aimlessly waltz around waiting for Louie to gain possession and then start his work from there.

Ribeiro however, is definitely a two-way center. Guy can play D and has an active stick in our zone.
Wouldn't be the first time we've disagreed. Richards is much stronger positionally than Ribeiro, he's better on the faceoffs and he's where he needs to be on transition. Ribeiro is lost when it comes to picking up his assignments on the back check - actually, he and Morrow, together, probably cost them several games in their own zone.

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This team is much, much stronger without Richards. We've added pieces to multiple lines instead of one asset.
That one asset is a 90+ point player, who runs the team's power play, can kill a penalty, and is a contender for the Selke and Byng trophies for a reason. You can't convince me it's addition by subtraction there specifically.

As for multiple assets, yes, the Stars have brought in multiple assets, but they were assets the team needed to bring in regardless of whether Richards re-signed or not and ones they likely would have had to bring in unless they kept what they had or promoted from Texas.

When you look at it, Ryder is probably a 30-goal RW who shows some inconsistency, but is clutch in the playoffs. Sounds a lot like what the Stars hoped they'd get in Langenbrunner. They still haven't replaced Neal up front either and Ott remains the tweener between top and bottom lines he is.

On the back end, I love the Souray signing, but he just replaces Richards on the PP and maybe adds a little on the back end. Although everyone here loves to whip Woywitka, is Souray and Pardy a significant bonafide upgrade over Woywitka and Skrastins for almost double the salary? (Which some may argue is the savings on Niskanen). Yes, I grant Goligoski for a full year should help somewhat however.

I think Fiddler and Dvorak are upgrades over Sutherby (who was never given his due here) and Peterson, but does that upgrade on defence replace an elite hockey player?

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It's a team game, not the Brad Richards show. With Gully leading this team we'll see strong possession style two-way shutdown hockey. We will be contending for our division, no question.
It is a team game, but Richards was a consummate team player who was able to motivate those younger players and he certainly carried enough weight on his own. It's not opening day yet, so I'll reserve judgment, but I don't see the Stars as improving by leaps and bounds, which might be necessary to be a winning playoff team.


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07-05-2011, 04:23 PM
  #94
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But Ribeiro, for all his flashiness, is also not the playmaker Richards is.
I couldn't disagree with you more. But because this is a feeling thing more than anything quantitative I suppose it's one of those agree to disagree things.

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07-05-2011, 04:27 PM
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You guys will be surprised at just how much an actual coach with modern coaching philosophies can impact a team.

This team WILL compete.
I think Gulutzan could big the biggest move of this offseason. If he can get this team to compete for 60 minutes each night, I can see Dallas returning to the playoffs. Look at what Phoenix has done. On paper they are very unimpressive. Yet Tippett has gotten everything he can out of that team and they've made the playoffs the past two seasons.

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07-05-2011, 04:27 PM
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Richards is about as much of a Selke nominee as Redden is a Norris candidate, honestly. Richards is a prime offensive centerman... not a two-way centerman like Kesler...

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07-05-2011, 04:36 PM
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I couldn't disagree with you more. But because this is a feeling thing more than anything quantitative I suppose it's one of those agree to disagree things.
No, you're right. Over the past 3 seasons Ribeiro has averaged 1.09 primary assists per 60 minutes at even strength compared to Richards' .96

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07-05-2011, 04:37 PM
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That one asset is a 90+ point player, who runs the team's power play, can kill a penalty, and is a contender for the Selke and Byng trophies for a reason. You can't convince me it's addition by subtraction there specifically.
Is a 90 point player a guy who does it year in, year out, or is a 90 point player a guy who's done it twice in his career? In the six seasons since the lockout he's hit 90 points twice, broken the PPG barrier three times, and failed to break it three times. Hell, he's failed to even crack the 70+ point barrier those three times (scoring exactly 70 one of those). If anything his level of production is inconsistent. We don't need to replace a 90 point player; we need to replace a PPG player, which is a much more realistic goal.

And if Richards is regularly killing penalties for you your team is in trouble.

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07-05-2011, 05:00 PM
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I think Gulutzan could big the biggest move of this offseason. If he can get this team to compete for 60 minutes each night, I can see Dallas returning to the playoffs. Look at what Phoenix has done. On paper they are very unimpressive. Yet Tippett has gotten everything he can out of that team and they've made the playoffs the past two seasons.
This is a good point. How many games last season were the Stars ready to play from puck drop? 10? That might be generous. Even if Gulutzan can't make them get up for every game -- let's say he manages half of them -- that's still a major potential improvement with how important the first goal is.

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07-05-2011, 05:21 PM
  #100
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Wouldn't be the first time we've disagreed. Richards is much stronger positionally than Ribeiro, he's better on the faceoffs and he's where he needs to be on transition. Ribeiro is lost when it comes to picking up his assignments on the back check - actually, he and Morrow, together, probably cost them several games in their own zone.



That one asset is a 90+ point player, who runs the team's power play, can kill a penalty, and is a contender for the Selke and Byng trophies for a reason. You can't convince me it's addition by subtraction there specifically.

As for multiple assets, yes, the Stars have brought in multiple assets, but they were assets the team needed to bring in regardless of whether Richards re-signed or not and ones they likely would have had to bring in unless they kept what they had or promoted from Texas.

When you look at it, Ryder is probably a 30-goal RW who shows some inconsistency, but is clutch in the playoffs. Sounds a lot like what the Stars hoped they'd get in Langenbrunner. They still haven't replaced Neal up front either and Ott remains the tweener between top and bottom lines he is.

On the back end, I love the Souray signing, but he just replaces Richards on the PP and maybe adds a little on the back end. Although everyone here loves to whip Woywitka, is Souray and Pardy a significant bonafide upgrade over Woywitka and Skrastins for almost double the salary? (Which some may argue is the savings on Niskanen). Yes, I grant Goligoski for a full year should help somewhat however.

I think Fiddler and Dvorak are upgrades over Sutherby (who was never given his due here) and Peterson, but does that upgrade on defence replace an elite hockey player?



It is a team game, but Richards was a consummate team player who was able to motivate those younger players and he certainly carried enough weight on his own. It's not opening day yet, so I'll reserve judgment, but I don't see the Stars as improving by leaps and bounds, which might be necessary to be a winning playoff team.
I can see where you're coming from. Richard sis definitely better in transition, no doubt. However, he's no where close to being a two-way player. Honestly I don't think him and Morrow were responsible for costing this team games last season. Our horrible, small, squimish defense was.

Kari had the best save percentage in the league minus those two 8 goal games. so if your goalie is making the saves and you're team still can't score because your powerplay is horrible and your defense can't transition. Bringing in pieces to make the bottom two lines stronger as well as MASSIVELY improving the defense (adding strength and tenacity) while also adding a right shot, goal scoring winger. I think we improve.

Richards is great, no doubt. His game wasn't great for the Dallas Stars.

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