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[WSH/COL] Varlamov for a 1st in '12, 2nd in '12 or '13

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Old
03-18-2012, 08:18 PM
  #226
Carlzner
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
The "goalie is better than his stats" mantra helps Varlamov out a whole lot more than Neuvirth.
I don't recall saying that.

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03-18-2012, 09:48 PM
  #227
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Crunch time. Who's 1st rounder will be higher? Ours or COL's?

I feel like sadly, it will be ours.

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03-19-2012, 12:10 AM
  #228
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Colorado somehow got a goalie that can steal games, so not theirs.

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03-19-2012, 08:57 AM
  #229
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Who cares? We have both.

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Old
03-19-2012, 10:24 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
Don't understand why people are second guessing this. Compensation via offer sheet would have been a 2nd, we got a 1st and 2nd.

Not to mention the player had a sense of entitlement and was delivering ultimatums that he was in no position to give.
Not trying to be a dick, but that's false, your GM clearly said that he was going to match every offer sheet that isn't bringing back a 1st round pick.

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03-19-2012, 10:29 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
Not trying to be a dick, but that's false, your GM clearly said that he was going to match every offer sheet that isn't bringing back a 1st round pick.
Given that it's questionable that Varlamov would have been happy to return I don't really tend to buy that he would have matched a $3M offer sheet. It was either elsewhere in the NHL or the KHL.

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03-19-2012, 10:35 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Varlamov has been lights out for Colorado, but that's not even the point anymore.
Over the last couple months definitely. I mean lights out is an understatement IMO when describing his play in February and March.

But then again his play in November and December was God awful. His play is definitely peaking at the right time...

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Old
03-19-2012, 10:43 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Given that it's questionable that Varlamov would have been happy to return I don't really tend to buy that he would have matched a $3M offer sheet. It was either elsewhere in the NHL or the KHL.
I know that he probably wasn't returning to WAS, but your GM made it very clear (it was both in his Denver Post interview and his interview on NHL.com) he would've match the offer sheet so that Varly would remain under Caps control. The only thing that surprised him was that Sherman was willing to trade Avs 1st pick last offseason, but he said that Varly (or his RFA rights) wasn't on the market for anything less.

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03-19-2012, 10:48 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I know that he probably wasn't returning to WAS, but your GM made it very clear (it was both in his Denver Post interview and his interview on NHL.com) he would've match the offer sheet so that Varly would remain under Caps control. The only thing that surprised him was that Sherman was willing to trade Avs 1st pick last offseason, but he said that Varly (or his RFA rights) wasn't on the market for anything less.
While I think he probably would have done it, GMGM isn't above outright lying. Could have easily been helping Sherman save face.

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03-19-2012, 11:12 AM
  #235
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GMGM also made it clear he was comfortable proceeding into the year with Neuvirth and Holtby, before Vokoun came at a bargain. A supervening circumstance, much like the Avs offering a 1st with a 2nd.

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Old
03-19-2012, 11:27 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
While I think he probably would have done it, GMGM isn't above outright lying. Could have easily been helping Sherman save face.
I doubt he cares about how Sherman looks in the media.

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03-19-2012, 11:34 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I doubt he cares about how Sherman looks in the media.
Oh, I have no doubt he would say anything he could that would make it seem like a better deal for Sherman. Can't afford to burn any bridges among potential trade partners by gloating about how badly you fleeced him.

Doesn't cost him anything to say something like that whether he meant it or not. I think he would have matched the offer sheet but him saying so doesn't mean it was the truth.

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Old
03-19-2012, 11:51 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Oh, I have no doubt he would say anything he could that would make it seem like a better deal for Sherman. Can't afford to burn any bridges among potential trade partners by gloating about how badly you fleeced him.

Doesn't cost him anything to say something like that whether he meant it or not. I think he would have matched the offer sheet but him saying so doesn't mean it was the truth.
Sherman said he talked with GMGM about an offer sheet and he said GMGM told him he'll match (Avs weren't going to place an offer sheet, but it came up during their talks about Varly), GMGM could've been playing him, but IMHO (I know my opinion holds little or no value at all) he was speaking the truth.

And keep in mind that Avs weren't the only team making a play for Varly, there were reportedly 5 more teams interested in aquiring his services and that probably drove his price up, which is of course a good thing for you guys and your team.

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Old
03-19-2012, 11:55 AM
  #239
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One of those trades that can only be criticized in hindsight, I think. Given Varly's injuries, it made sense. And Neuvirth looked quite solid at the time.

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Old
03-19-2012, 12:01 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
One of those trades that can only be criticized in hindsight, I think. Given Varly's injuries, it made sense. And Neuvirth looked quite solid at the time.
I don't think you can criticize this trade at all from Caps POV considering Varly's status in WAS at the time of the trade.

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Old
03-19-2012, 12:30 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
One of those trades that can only be criticized in hindsight, I think. Given Varly's injuries, it made sense. And Neuvirth looked quite solid at the time.
And frankly if anyone is picking this moment to criticize it then they are just cherry picking. Varlamov was brutal in November and December. Now he is amazing. But his season long stats rank him 28th in both GAA and Save %, which isn't great though obviously better than Neuvirth's stats this season.

This is a trade that is going to have to be looked at say 5 years down to road to really accurately judge IMO...

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Old
03-19-2012, 12:36 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
And frankly if anyone is picking this moment to criticize it then they are just cherry picking. Varlamov was brutal in November and December. Now he is amazing. But his season long stats rank him 28th in both GAA and Save %, which isn't great though obviously better than Neuvirth's stats this season.

This is a trade that is going to have to be looked at say 5 years down to road to really accurately judge IMO...
He wasn't, the team as a whole (with the exception of O'Reilly and Landeskog) was playing bad and Giguere was saving them with the way he played, while Varly was average. There isn't a single point in the season where he costed Avs wins or points.

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03-19-2012, 12:50 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
He wasn't, the team as a whole (with the exception of O'Reilly and Landeskog) was playing bad and Giguere was saving them with the way he played, while Varly was average. There isn't a single point in the season where he costed Avs wins or points.
Really? Not a single point? He went 2-7-1 in November with a GAA of 3.39 and a Save % of .878 in 10 starts. Then he followed that up with 3.26 and .889 in 8 starts in December but the team played so well in front of him that he somehow went 5-3.

Say what you want but he was statistically brutal over 2 months and 18 starts...

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03-19-2012, 12:54 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Really? Not a single point? He went 2-7-1 in November with a GAA of 3.39 and a Save % of .878 in 10 starts. Then he followed that up with 3.26 and .889 in 8 starts in December but the team played so well in front of him that he somehow went 5-3.

Say what you want but he was statistically brutal over 2 months and 18 starts...
I saw every single one of Avs games this season so I know what I'm talking about, his stats were bad, but Avs main problem during that stretch were defensive breakdowns not Varlamov.

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03-19-2012, 12:59 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
One of those trades that can only be criticized in hindsight, I think. Given Varly's injuries, it made sense. And Neuvirth looked quite solid at the time.

I usually agree with you art, but not on this'n. If the long-term idea is to establish an elite #1 NHL goalie then drafting Varly with the 1st round pick (from Nashville for B. Witt) and developing him was the thing to do. Varly was in Boudreau's doghouse and Neuvy, an inferior talent, was in Boudreau's penthouse. Well, if you're the GM trying to build a great franchise you have to turn down all that "noise" and identify the player's talent.

The Caps goalie position is a mess because of the mismanagement of Varly and of the goalie position overall. It's possible that Holtby has the talent to bail them out--but they appear to be mishandling him, too. Vokoun supposedly "fell into our lap" but he hasn't been great and will be gone after the season.

Blunder after blunder.

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Old
03-19-2012, 01:09 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I saw every single one of Avs games this season so I know what I'm talking about, his stats were bad, but Avs main problem during that stretch were defensive breakdowns not Varlamov.
Well if you know what you are talking about then In guess we don't need to have this discussion then because I am just speaking out of my butt...

I guess all 7 of those goals he gave up against Dallas on Nov. 4 were defensive breakdowns that left him out to dry and it was really the 22 saves he did make that stole them that point in the OT loss?

How about the 4 goals on just 20 shots he gave up against the Flames on Nov. 12 when they lost 4-3? Those were all on the defense also and no chance they get a point there?

How about the 5 he gave up in a 5-4 loss to the Sharks on Dec. 15. No chance on any of those?

And those are just the ones where the goal total and/or save total are obvious and the score was close.

Don't make me go back and watch everyone of those goals he gave up those months and actually tell you how many wins/points he cost the Avs because I am just stubborn enough to do it.

Just admit that your boy as well as the rest of the team if you'd like had a tough couple of months. It is no big deal. It happens and nobody will think lesser of you for admitting it. What matters is that down the stretch he has been incredible.

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03-19-2012, 01:12 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
I saw every single one of Avs games this season so I know what I'm talking about, his stats were bad, but Avs main problem during that stretch were defensive breakdowns not Varlamov.

You are correct, Ivan.

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Old
03-19-2012, 01:21 PM
  #248
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Well if you know what you are talking about then In guess we don't need to have this discussion then because I am just speaking out of my butt...

I guess all 7 of those goals he gave up against Dallas on Nov. 4 were defensive breakdowns that left him out to dry and it was really the 22 saves he did make that stole them that point in the OT loss?

How about the 4 goals on just 20 shots he gave up against the Flames on Nov. 12 when they lost 4-3? Those were all on the defense also and no chance they get a point there?

How about the 5 he gave up in a 5-4 loss to the Sharks on Dec. 15. No chance on any of those?

And those are just the ones where the goal total and/or save total are obvious and the score was close.

Don't make me go back and watch everyone of those goals he gave up those months and actually tell you how many wins/points he cost the Avs because I am just stubborn enough to do it.

Just admit that your boy as well as the rest of the team if you'd like had a tough couple of months. It is no big deal. It happens and nobody will think lesser of you for admitting it. What matters is that down the stretch he has been incredible.
The only bad games he had were against MTL, DAL and WIN. I'm not saying he was playing good during that stretch and he wasn't playing up to his potential like he is now, but he certainly wasn't brutal as your're trying to suggest.

And he's not my boy, quite frankly he's one of my least favourite Avs.

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03-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #249
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You are correct, Ivan.
Yes I'm sure Neuvirth would have had a GAA in the 5's and a Save % in the .700's if he had been in the Avs net for those 18 games.

How Giguere was able to play so well behind the same team over those months we will never know...

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03-19-2012, 02:12 PM
  #250
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You are correct, Ivan.
Only if we grant that Varlamov's rebound control problems aren't really his responsibility and that it's merely his job to make the first save. His D is helping him out much better lately but rebound control is very much part of a goaltender's responsibility. It's the biggest barrier between a healthy Varlamov and elite status.

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