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[WSH/COL] Varlamov for a 1st in '12, 2nd in '12 or '13

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Old
03-19-2012, 03:20 PM
  #251
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Yes I'm sure Neuvirth would have had a GAA in the 5's and a Save % in the .700's if he had been in the Avs net for those 18 games.

How Giguere was able to play so well behind the same team over those months we will never know...
He was playing out of his mind and he reminded me of his ANA days just like Varly is now, that's how.

Varly could've and should've played better over that stretch, but you're trying to suggest his bad stats are solely dependant on the way he played, which simply isn't the truth.

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03-19-2012, 03:30 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
I usually agree with you art, but not on this'n. If the long-term idea is to establish an elite #1 NHL goalie then drafting Varly with the 1st round pick (from Nashville for B. Witt) and developing him was the thing to do. Varly was in Boudreau's doghouse and Neuvy, an inferior talent, was in Boudreau's penthouse. Well, if you're the GM trying to build a great franchise you have to turn down all that "noise" and identify the player's talent.

The Caps goalie position is a mess because of the mismanagement of Varly and of the goalie position overall. It's possible that Holtby has the talent to bail them out--but they appear to be mishandling him, too. Vokoun supposedly "fell into our lap" but he hasn't been great and will be gone after the season.

Blunder after blunder.
Well, look -- in general I would've loved to see Varly stay in DC, I liked and continue to like the guy. So when I heard that he was traded, I was not happy. But when I read about the return (that at the time looked like a somewhat possible lottery pick), and given the fact that Varly never did manage to fully get on track in DC and had almost chronic injuries (which you never know how they might pan out).. I thought it was an understandable trade under the circumstances.

It's been a bit of the same thing for me with Green. I still have an overall sense that he's fragile (among other things, but let's leave that aside). So if the Caps were to trade Green for a decent return, and Green went on to become Dan Boyle somewhere else.. I'd be ok with that.

I don't know, maybe in overall scope of blunders the Varlamov trade just doesn't stand out that much to me

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03-19-2012, 03:33 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
He was playing out of his mind and he reminded me of his ANA days just like Varly is now, that's how.

Varly could've and should've played better over that stretch, but you're trying to suggest his bad stats are solely dependant on the way he played, which simply isn't the truth.
I will concede that nobodies bad stats in a team sport are solely dependent on their own play. And for that matter the same applies to good stats.

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03-19-2012, 03:33 PM
  #254
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I'm one that thinks this is definitely a win/win for both teams. The only thing that's stopping us from seeing it that way is the amount of homers on each side that can't accept that their GM isn't straight pwning n00bs ala NHL 2012.

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03-19-2012, 05:33 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Holyhell View Post
I'm one that thinks this is definitely a win/win for both teams. The only thing that's stopping us from seeing it that way is the amount of homers on each side that can't accept that their GM isn't straight pwning n00bs ala NHL 2012.
I also think it's a win/win and I definitely like it for both teams but I think the reason most can't see it that way is that many Caps fans probably are disappointed the 1st round pick didn't end up being a lottery pick while many Avs fans feel like "told you so!"..
It's been absolutely tough for an Avs fan to read the main boards after the trade was made. Everybody was jumping all over the Avalanche how stupid they could be to give up a lottery pick for an injury prone inconsistent goalie and now it just feels good to see that it turned out another way (although the final word isn't said yet).

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03-19-2012, 06:38 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Kschey View Post
I also think it's a win/win and I definitely like it for both teams but I think the reason most can't see it that way is that many Caps fans probably are disappointed the 1st round pick didn't end up being a lottery pick while many Avs fans feel like "told you so!"..
It's been absolutely tough for an Avs fan to read the main boards after the trade was made. Everybody was jumping all over the Avalanche how stupid they could be to give up a lottery pick for an injury prone inconsistent goalie and now it just feels good to see that it turned out another way (although the final word isn't said yet).
That's because people get so invested in the obvious future they see that they forget a lot of things can happen in the course of a year. There are still Avs fans that insist that taking risks is a one way ticket to horrible hockey teams and we should just try and get as many lottery picks as possible.

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03-19-2012, 07:02 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
I usually agree with you art, but not on this'n. If the long-term idea is to establish an elite #1 NHL goalie then drafting Varly with the 1st round pick (from Nashville for B. Witt) and developing him was the thing to do. Varly was in Boudreau's doghouse and Neuvy, an inferior talent, was in Boudreau's penthouse. Well, if you're the GM trying to build a great franchise you have to turn down all that "noise" and identify the player's talent.

The Caps goalie position is a mess because of the mismanagement of Varly and of the goalie position overall. It's possible that Holtby has the talent to bail them out--but they appear to be mishandling him, too. Vokoun supposedly "fell into our lap" but he hasn't been great and will be gone after the season.

Blunder after blunder.
Let's be honest an take off our Varly-fan glasses for a sec. He was in no way in Boudreau's doghouse. Guy couldn't stay healthy and lost his starting job. Happens in pro sports.

Add that to a sense of entitlement and threats to go home, it's easy for an objective person to see why Varly is gone. Sad because I was a big fan, but that's reality.

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Old
03-19-2012, 07:16 PM
  #258
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Question from an Avs fan: How did Varly used to get injured so much? Was it from making a ridiculous save or was it just randomly in practice or something?

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03-19-2012, 07:18 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Let's be honest an take off our Varly-fan glasses for a sec. He was in no way in Boudreau's doghouse. Guy couldn't stay healthy and lost his starting job. Happens in pro sports.

Add that to a sense of entitlement and threats to go home, it's easy for an objective person to see why Varly is gone. Sad because I was a big fan, but that's reality.
Let's get some facts straight...Varly never stated he wanted to go to the KHL, he always insisted he wanted to be an NHL goaltender.

His AGENT was the one who threw out the KHL threats...so who knows if that was a ploy to force McPhee's hands to get him out of his situation in Washington.

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03-19-2012, 07:19 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Let's get some facts straight...Varly never stated he wanted to go to the KHL, he always insisted he wanted to be an NHL goaltender.

His AGENT was the one who threw out the KHL threats...so who knows if that was a ploy to force McPhee's hands to get him out of his situation in Washington.
He said he would go to the KHL if not traded. He would not return to Washington no matter what.

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03-19-2012, 08:01 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Question from an Avs fan: How did Varly used to get injured so much? Was it from making a ridiculous save or was it just randomly in practice or something?
both

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03-19-2012, 08:02 PM
  #262
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both
There was that one time Malone just randomly sat on him, too. He was getting hot at the time IINM, really unfortunate.

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Old
03-19-2012, 11:42 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Let's get some facts straight...Varly never stated he wanted to go to the KHL, he always insisted he wanted to be an NHL goaltender.

His AGENT was the one who threw out the KHL threats...so who knows if that was a ploy to force McPhee's hands to get him out of his situation in Washington.
Good point, but the possibility was there and getting 1st at the time was a great deal... now, if Varly turns out even 3/4 of what Roy was for the Avs and we pick another Eric Fehr, then it will not look so good.

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03-19-2012, 11:49 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Kschey View Post
I also think it's a win/win and I definitely like it for both teams but I think the reason most can't see it that way is that many Caps fans probably are disappointed the 1st round pick didn't end up being a lottery pick while many Avs fans feel like "told you so!"..
It's been absolutely tough for an Avs fan to read the main boards after the trade was made. Everybody was jumping all over the Avalanche how stupid they could be to give up a lottery pick for an injury prone inconsistent goalie and now it just feels good to see that it turned out another way (although the final word isn't said yet).
Trade may work out well for both sides but the "told you so" comment is silly. Instead of being a top 10 pick it is going to be 13th or 14th when the Avs miss the playoffs. Congrats on that victory I guess.

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03-20-2012, 12:33 PM
  #265
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Trade may work out well for both sides but the "told you so" comment is silly. Instead of being a top 10 pick it is going to be 13th or 14th when the Avs miss the playoffs. Congrats on that victory I guess.
Except it goes much deeper than that. First, we were told that we were acquiring a goalie, who, despite had talent, was made of glass and would never make it through a season. We were told that we gave up a top 5 pick, and not a top 10 pick that you're stating. We were told that our goaltending wouldn't be any better than previous seasons and that team wouldn't see any progress from the year before. (since a top 5 pick was all but guaranteed to Washington according to hf)

It's a "I told you so" in the sense that avs fans were right about where that pick would be, what kind of goalie varlamov would be and that the avs would be fighting for a spot in the playoffs.

In the end, if the avs do make the playoffs, then the pick is most likely 15th or 16th. And, if they can cause an upset in the first round, that pick drops a further 8 spots.
The end result is exactly what avs fans expected.

The difference between 5th overall and 15th overall is very big.

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Old
03-20-2012, 12:58 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Question from an Avs fan: How did Varly used to get injured so much? Was it from making a ridiculous save or was it just randomly in practice or something?
varly was all skill and athleticism and not nearly enough technique and mental game.
he overused his explosion and broke down. he got injured in other ways as all goalies do but his main problem was relying on his gifts more than his body could handle.

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03-20-2012, 01:32 PM
  #267
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Except it goes much deeper than that. First, we were told that we were acquiring a goalie, who, despite had talent, was made of glass and would never make it through a season. We were told that we gave up a top 5 pick, and not a top 10 pick that you're stating. We were told that our goaltending wouldn't be any better than previous seasons and that team wouldn't see any progress from the year before. (since a top 5 pick was all but guaranteed to Washington according to hf)

It's a "I told you so" in the sense that avs fans were right about where that pick would be, what kind of goalie varlamov would be and that the avs would be fighting for a spot in the playoffs.

In the end, if the avs do make the playoffs, then the pick is most likely 15th or 16th. And, if they can cause an upset in the first round, that pick drops a further 8 spots.
The end result is exactly what avs fans expected.

The difference between 5th overall and 15th overall is very big.
The season's not over yet.

The people claiming that he was/is made of glass are correct though. He played in 26 and 27 games the previous two seasons. Part of that time was due to Neuvirth
getting the nod from the coaching staff, but that is a testament to his inconsistent play.

You've seen the inconsistent play. I bet you'll see the injuries start popping up soon enough.

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03-20-2012, 01:46 PM
  #268
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Varly has played a whopping 46 games this year and his numbers are statistically worse than his short time in Washington.

Unless GMGM really bombs on those two draft picks, I have a hard time seeing any scenario in which Washington loses this deal.

The one thing I can give Avs fans is that their team is a hell of a lot more fun to watch than the Caps right now.

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03-20-2012, 02:17 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
The season's not over yet.

The people claiming that he was/is made of glass are correct though. He played in 26 and 27 games the previous two seasons. Part of that time was due to Neuvirth
getting the nod from the coaching staff, but that is a testament to his inconsistent play.

You've seen the inconsistent play. I bet you'll see the injuries start popping up soon enough.
Of course there's inconsistent play. There's inconsistent play from nearly every player in the league. There's a reason why 23 year olds are rarely starters on NHL teams, and it's due to the difficulty of the position in general.

The inconsistent play is expected from nearly all starting goalies, except for the truly elite ones. What's very important is that he's shown extended periods of consistency early in his career, as well as this season. And he also appears to play his best at the most critical times of the season.

His erraticness in nets has caused some of his injuries. But watching him play, he's much more stable in net. He still scrambles a lot, but doesn't rely as much on highlight reel, fully stretched out saves. There's no doubt he'll mature as he gets older, and it's natural to think his style of play will mature as well.

His numbers in Washington, especially on a game by game basis, actually show a very consistent goalie. So I don't know why there was this grand opinion of him being inconsistent when his numbers never reflected that in the past.

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03-20-2012, 02:27 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by amjay13 View Post
Varly has played a whopping 46 games this year and his numbers are statistically worse than his short time in Washington.

Unless GMGM really bombs on those two draft picks, I have a hard time seeing any scenario in which Washington loses this deal.

The one thing I can give Avs fans is that their team is a hell of a lot more fun to watch than the Caps right now.
He's mos likely going to finish with over 50 starts this year. He would have more if it weren't for giguere's amazing play this year.

I think 50+ starts for a 23 year old is great. No one expects young goalies to play 65+ games in their first couple of years. It's best to gradually increase their workload, so that their play doesn't suffer from over extended use.

I don't think anyone is really claiming the caps lost on this deal. I think most avs fans accept it as a fair deal for both sides. We're just more vocal about it because of all the hoopla at the time of trade that made it seem like we made the worst deal of all time.

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03-20-2012, 02:57 PM
  #271
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The only thing that held him back in Washington were injuries. He was consistent. He is a good goalie and may be great. Most fans hold him in high regard for his stud playoff play when few thought he would play at all.

I for one am pissed we didn't play him last year in the playoffs. Bruce said he didn't play him because he had been injured. Past tense. The problem I have is that Bruce turned to him previously after he had been barely used, presumed rusty, yet did just fine.

While I was bummed he wanted the number one job promised to him, he believed he was worth than we were offering and he was right, as he fetched George a nice return and himself a fat paycheck.

It looks like a win win for now, but as hockey deals go, we will know a lot more in about 5 years.

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03-20-2012, 04:33 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
varly was all skill and athleticism and not nearly enough technique and mental game.
he overused his explosion and broke down. he got injured in other ways as all goalies do but his main problem was relying on his gifts more than his body could handle.
For what it's worth, his technical game has improved a lot over the course of the year. Might be the Giguere effect.

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03-20-2012, 04:40 PM
  #273
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Varlamov may be playing well for the Avalanche right now or whatever but I still don't think it matters. He's an extremely talented enigma

Any goalie who says pay me like a starter give me the starting role or I'm taking my ball and running home is a diva with character problems.

You want the starting job? Earn it you bum, not like it would have been that hard to beat out Neuvirth?

He's been healthy for seventy games? Who the **** cares, this is a guy who had a groin injury EVERY ****ING YEAR SINCE HE WAS 14.

That's unbelievable, I'll trust history over a 70 game stretch and with NHL goalies history of groin injuries it doesn't look good for him.

I'll never forget what he did for 4 GAMES against Pitt but everyones acting like we trade Brodeur and Roy combined into one,

He's a nice guy and all but it's extremely ignorant to deny he acted like an entitled brat

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03-20-2012, 05:09 PM
  #274
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He did earn it. You seem to have forgotten that Boudreau is an idiot when it comes to his pets.

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03-20-2012, 05:22 PM
  #275
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He did earn it. You seem to have forgotten that Boudreau is an idiot when it comes to his pets.
With all the effort you're putting towards complaining about the trade, you could be building a time machine to go back and stop it or something...

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