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Stars sign Souray

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Old
07-01-2011, 09:29 PM
  #26
Cin
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Because of a freak accident and a ****** team.

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07-01-2011, 11:38 PM
  #27
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Because of a freak accident and a ****** team.
That still didn't really miss him when he was out.

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07-01-2011, 11:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
Punishment would be a Stars fan watching him play his 20-30 games before he gets waived or sent down.
It's not like we signed him to some long term deal or something. One year with him is fine.

If it doesn't work out, well ok, it doesn't work out. But if it does, then we'll be the benefactors of it. Not like anyone is expecting us to do anything anyways.

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07-02-2011, 01:02 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
That still didn't really miss him when he was out.
yeah the Oilers were such an amazing team the last two seasons without Shelden Souray.

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07-02-2011, 02:48 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Vofty View Post
Well Souray stay healthy and we will see where this goes...

That's the thing. Look at sourays history. Since he came in the league he has had trouble staying healthy, he was unable to stayheaalthy in the AHL last year and whar really scared off a few teams were the reports he has lost a stap

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07-02-2011, 03:13 AM
  #31
ColeJ
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there is no risk to this signing. there is only potential award.

and i freaking love the guy, so i'm thrilled.

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07-02-2011, 11:22 AM
  #32
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I also really like this signing, if Souray stays healthy and keeps his focus I believe he will bring something of value to this D corps. If he doesn't...oh well, it was only a one year deal and we payed him next to nothing. There is a very limited risk here, it is definetely worth the gamble.

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07-02-2011, 12:19 PM
  #33
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Great! Just what we needed: another D-man who can't play D. Great job, Joe!


ETA: I'd just like to remind everyone here that the worst team in the NHL for the past TWO years didn't even want this guy. They even paid several million to get rid of him!


Last edited by Stevonidas: 07-02-2011 at 12:39 PM.
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07-02-2011, 01:32 PM
  #34
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You are a parody of a hockey fan.

No one wanted to pay him $4.5 million. It's a zero risk (low-cost/1 year), potential high reward (bullet of a shot/2 years removed from 20 goals as a D) contract.

It's the type of move teams make to supplement a roster when they have terrible owners or no owners at all. It's the type of move the Texas Rangers made to tread water ... and make it to the World Series ... until their ownership was resolved.

Your silly anger should be directed at Tom Hicks. GM Joe and the scouts for the Dallas Stars work with what they are given.

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Old
07-02-2011, 01:57 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
yeah the Oilers were such an amazing team the last two seasons without Shelden Souray.

That's a strawman. My point is that the Oilers, despite being a horrible team, didn't find use for a man who once potted 25+ goals and 60+ points from the back-end. How they did without him is immaterial. This man's role was inconsequential enough to bury him in the minors.

BTW, I agree (to some extent) with some here that it's only 1 year and if it doesn't work then it's only $1.65 M wasted. However, the flip-side to that is that where we wasted $1.65M, we could've better spent that amount elsewhere on a (moderately) long-term solution (:cough: Babchuk :cough!: ).

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07-02-2011, 02:01 PM
  #36
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I don't think you really followed what happened. It had nothing to do with his role or how he could help their team. It was about the Oilers throwing a fit when called out on their shoddy medical practices and making an example out of someone.

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07-02-2011, 02:19 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
That's a strawman. My point is that the Oilers, despite being a horrible team, didn't find use for a man who once potted 25+ goals and 60+ points from the back-end. How they did without him is immaterial. This man's role was inconsequential enough to bury him in the minors.

BTW, I agree (to some extent) with some here that it's only 1 year and if it doesn't work then it's only $1.65 M wasted. However, the flip-side to that is that where we wasted $1.65M, we could've better spent that amount elsewhere on a (moderately) long-term solution (:cough: Babchuk :cough!: ).
People throw out the term "strawman" too much. I thought the same thing he did. You made it sound like the Oilers were able to find some sort of success with his absence.

I'm on board with this move. Like everyone else has said, zero risk-only reward potential.

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07-02-2011, 02:19 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
I don't think you really followed what happened. It had nothing to do with his role or how he could help their team. It was about the Oilers throwing a fit when called out on their shoddy medical practices and making an example out of someone.
He has had injury issues throughout his career, mate. He has NEVER played an entire 82 game season, getting to 70+ games only 4 times in his 13 year career. Yes the Oilers are to blame somewhat since they signed him to that deal, despite his history of injuries- the man had (and probably still has) mad offensive skills, agreed. However, the Oilers staff throwing a fit (his version of the story?) has little or no bearing on his propensity to be injured.

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07-02-2011, 02:25 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SolidusAKA View Post
People throw out the term "strawman" too much.
And the problem is....you don't get what it means?

Quote:
I thought the same thing he did. You made it sound like the Oilers were able to find some sort of success with his absence.
If you construed it that way then it's your fault. I only said that even a lousy squad had no use for him. Do you want me to use crayons to illustrate that point further?

Quote:
I'm on board with this move. Like everyone else has said, zero risk-only reward potential.
And I'm not on board like "everyone else."

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07-02-2011, 02:34 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
He has had injury issues throughout his career, mate. He has NEVER played an entire 82 game season, getting to 70+ games only 4 times in his 13 year career. Yes the Oilers are to blame somewhat since they signed him to that deal, despite his history of injuries- the man had (and probably still has) mad offensive skills, agreed. However, the Oilers staff throwing a fit (his version of the story?) has little or no bearing on his propensity to be injured.
That's not it at all.

Souray's problem with the Oilers was he felt the Edmonton team doctors (under direction from Oilers management) told him to play through injuries that he shouldn't have been playing with, and then as a result he ****ed up his shoulder even worse to the point where it's now a permanent problem. When he tried to talk to management about it they told him to **** off and wouldn't return his calls.

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to be upset about, and while people have different opinions on whether he should have went to the media with it, I think it's a joke that the Edmonton media (which is basically a mouthpiece for the Oilers - most of the guys on radio are employed by the team) put that back on him and Souray became the bad guy in this thing.

I live in Edmonton, and when Souray came to town all anyone was talking about was how great a team leader he was and how great he would be for the culture of the Oilers. It was that way for the first two years and then suddenly it was a problem. I tend to believe Souray when he says that Edmonton is a bush league organization based on this case and other evidence I've observed throughout the years.

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Old
07-02-2011, 02:50 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
That's not it at all.

Souray's problem with the Oilers was he felt the Edmonton team doctors (under direction from Oilers management) told him to play through injuries that he shouldn't have been playing with, and then as a result he ****ed up his shoulder even worse to the point where it's now a permanent problem. When he tried to talk to management about it they told him to **** off and wouldn't return his calls.

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to be upset about, and while people have different opinions on whether he should have went to the media with it, I think it's a joke that the Edmonton media (which is basically a mouthpiece for the Oilers - most of the guys on radio are employed by the team) put that back on him and Souray became the bad guy in this thing.

I live in Edmonton, and when Souray came to town all anyone was talking about was how great a team leader he was and how great he would be for the culture of the Oilers. It was that way for the first two years and then suddenly it was a problem. I tend to believe Souray when he says that Edmonton is a bush league organization based on this case and other evidence I've observed throughout the years.
Exactly. This wasn't about his level of play, it was about payback. The Oilers didn't even allow him to attend training camp.


I can understand your desire to spend a little more money and go after someone like Babchuk, but we have no idea what kind of money/term he's looking for. After seeing some of the deals handed out this past week, sticking with small one and two year deals is the way to go.

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Old
07-02-2011, 03:17 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
And the problem is....you don't get what it means?
No, I know what strawman means. I was implying that you just wanted to sound like a smart ass. The real problem was that your post was poorly communicated.

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07-02-2011, 03:35 PM
  #43
StarsFan74
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Originally Posted by SolidusAKA View Post
No, I know what strawman means.
No you don't. If you did, then you'd know that

I said/implied: Souray is so lousy that even a lousy Oiler's squad didn't want him

Alistar said/implied: Oilers are a lousy squad that didn't do well without Souray either.

That's a strawman on his part. I was commenting on Souray's capability as a player and not the Oilers' capacity to perform as a team- with or without Souray.

Need crayons, still?

Quote:
I was implying that you just wanted to sound like a smart ass. The real problem was that your post was poorly communicated.
You mean this post to Alistar was poorly communicated?

"That's a strawman. My point is that the Oilers, despite being a horrible team, didn't find use for a man who once potted 25+ goals and 60+ points from the back-end. How they did without him is immaterial. This man's role was inconsequential enough to bury him in the minors.

BTW, I agree (to some extent) with some here that it's only 1 year and if it doesn't work then it's only $1.65 M wasted. However, the flip-side to that is that where we wasted $1.65M, we could've better spent that amount elsewhere on a (moderately) long-term solution (:cough: Babchuk :cough!: ).
"

Where is the "poorly communicated" part? I didn't make one negative remark about the poster and even agree when I think the argument made for Souray is right.

Here's the real problem mate: You strode into the midst of an argument, with incomplete information, and tried to sound like a smart ass in trying to shut me up and when you get told duly, you tried to play "Mr. Upholder of Message Forum Morals" and are now shifting focus on my "poor communication" method. Pathetic!

BTW, If indeed you think my post to you was "poorly communicated" then be advised that I didn't owe you any modicum of decency when you didn't afford me one in the first place, capiche?

Go stuff your strawmen with your "morals."

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Old
07-02-2011, 03:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Alistar View Post
That's not it at all.

Souray's problem with the Oilers was he felt the Edmonton team doctors (under direction from Oilers management) told him to play through injuries that he shouldn't have been playing with, and then as a result he ****ed up his shoulder even worse to the point where it's now a permanent problem. When he tried to talk to management about it they told him to **** off and wouldn't return his calls.

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to be upset about, and while people have different opinions on whether he should have went to the media with it, I think it's a joke that the Edmonton media (which is basically a mouthpiece for the Oilers - most of the guys on radio are employed by the team) put that back on him and Souray became the bad guy in this thing.

I live in Edmonton, and when Souray came to town all anyone was talking about was how great a team leader he was and how great he would be for the culture of the Oilers. It was that way for the first two years and then suddenly it was a problem. I tend to believe Souray when he says that Edmonton is a bush league organization based on this case and other evidence I've observed throughout the years.
Sounds like what Lindros went through with the Flyers, but my point is (and has always been even before Souray landed with the Oilers) that his entire career has been somewhat injury-prone- even when he was a strapping, young lad. At 35+ (which is what he'd be when he begins playing) I'd be nervous reg. his ability to play out this season.

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07-02-2011, 03:56 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Stevonidas View Post
Great! Just what we needed: another D-man who can't play D. Great job, Joe!


ETA: I'd just like to remind everyone here that the worst team in the NHL for the past TWO years didn't even want this guy. They even paid several million to get rid of him!
And they signed a worse defensemen for 2.25 million.

This pessimistic behaviour needs to end.

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Old
07-02-2011, 04:04 PM
  #46
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And they signed a worse defensemen for 2.25 million.
That's a pretty good point.

On Souray: I agree with the no risk all reward assesment. I like not giving out long term deals to someone like Babchuk because it leaves room for prospects to move up. And, you never know when he's going to decide to go back to Russia. I'd imagine that is a turnoff for a lot of teams.

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07-02-2011, 04:33 PM
  #47
Dominic Roussel
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Can we create a thread specifically for some of these disgruntled fans to sit around and ***** about everything this team does so we can avoid that in the rest of the threads?

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Old
07-02-2011, 05:26 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
If you construed it that way then it's your fault. I only said that even a lousy squad had no use for him. Do you want me to use crayons to illustrate that point further?
Oooh oooh do you have markers instead? I really like markers. Crayons make my hands all waxy.

"A lousy squad had no use for him." Your contention with this statement is that Souray would not have helped the Oilers, is that right? And you deduced that from the fact that they said "GTFO we don't want you."

This is a stance that doesn't take into account the personal relationships between Souray and management that became irreparable. Whether he could have helped the Oilers on the ice was immaterial to their dismissal of him. They didn't want that type of situation around their young talented players, therefore they made him disappear. Good for them. However, that has nothing to do with their opinion of him as a player. There is no player they would have kept around under such circumstances, the only difference being if they had Crosby on their team and there was a rift there they could have found a dozen or so takers for him. You're boiling this down to an irresponsibly small number of factors. It's not as if a bad team saw a player who is so terrible he would hurt them if suited up, which IS what your statement implies, strawman b.s. aside.

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Old
07-02-2011, 05:26 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by StarsFan74 View Post
That still didn't really miss him when he was out.
^^^ This is the message you poorly communicated.

It was somewhat ambiguous and Alistar (mis)read it as something you didnt say. Instead of just suggesting that he misunderstood, you accused him of strawman-ing you. Sure you could say he "strawmaned" you, but it seemed excessive and thats why I had a problem with it.

And yes, I do know what a strawman is.

Edit: The fact that he was able to reply to your suggestion without changing your premises would suggest it is not a strawman. Regardless of what you intended, the two of us both thought you meant something else. It was a misunderstanding, nothing more.


Last edited by SolidusAKA: 07-02-2011 at 05:42 PM.
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Old
07-02-2011, 05:56 PM
  #50
piqued
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It's official, Souray's nickname will be Strawman. Move over, Studly Wonderbomb.

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