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Center situation looking better (NHL + prospect) + we have pieces to trade for more

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Old
07-02-2011, 09:20 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
I think its more likely that the thinking in the war room right now is that Roy-Leino-Adam-Gaustad wouldn't suck. Or at least, would be good enough to support our ~$31M cadre of wingers. Or good enough to hold the fort until certain draft picks mature.
If they think that, I'm worried.

They also probably think that between Hecht & Leino they can get 82 games of halfway decent center play.


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07-02-2011, 09:30 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SoFFacet View Post
I think its more likely that the thinking in the war room right now is that Roy-Leino-Adam-Gaustad wouldn't suck. Or at least, would be good enough to support our ~$31M cadre of wingers. Or good enough to hold the fort until certain draft picks mature.
I don't know... given a bolstered defense that, on paper, should be able to both help out offensively (Ehrhoff) and terrorize down deep (Regehr), is that such a bad assumption for the FO to make?

We won't know until a few months after the season starts, but I'm really not unhappy with that lineup to at least start with (especially given the extremely limited upgrade options at this point).

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07-02-2011, 10:04 AM
  #53
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One thing that I feel is being overlooked here a bit, particularly as far as the Leino signing is concerned:

If the Rags or Flames (or both) miss out on Richards, they have Tim Connolly as their consolation prize, as he's the only other "skilled" center left in FA...the same Tim Connolly we've been so desperate to get rid of the last several years.

They've put all their eggs in one basket, and if they miss, they will be forced to trade significant assets to fill a hole that needs to be filled--assuming the want to fill the hole properly.

It's disappointing that we never talked to Brad directly yesterday, because had we, I have a feeling we'd be one of those teams still in the discussion right now. However, standing pat and waiting/hoping on one player like this when there are numerous other ways to improve your team is absolutely insane.

If Leino doesn't work out, we still have the assets necessary to get something done on the trade front. But the important thing is that we don't have to trade anything until we see how that situation pans out.

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07-02-2011, 11:04 AM
  #54
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Moar Finns Moar Wins
You mean more 2nd place finishes.

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07-02-2011, 11:39 AM
  #55
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If they play Leino at center and stick with it. Keep Roy and Gaustad. Then I'd be looking for a Right handed center for PK and faceoffs.

What's Novotny doing these days?


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07-02-2011, 12:21 PM
  #56
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The Leino signing is upgrading the roster with a proven playoff preformer...period. He's shown over the last 2 playoffs, that he can play when it's needed most...something that our core has not done consistently....I have no problem with the Leino signing, as he was one of the guys I'd of loved to sign before FA.

Also remember, that Philly wanted him back and offered him a substantial contract for 4 years. We needed to overpay to get him out of Philly, or what was his incentive???? They are already a contending team too.

NOW.....

I will bet my left n....oops,....that the Sabres will make a deal for a center. We have WAY TOO MANY pieces right now. Before the season starts we will have another center, maybe not as good as Roy but atleast a solid #2/#3 center, and I'd put it on a guy as good as Brassard.

There is no way they won't add to our center depth. It's only the second day of FA. I bet they already have a deal on the table and the other team has to do something first....bet anything.

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07-02-2011, 01:23 PM
  #57
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The goal every off season should be to get better, and we definitely accomplished that already. Regardless of whether Leino turns out to be a viable center, you'll have a hard time convincing me he's a downgrade to Connolly.

Let's not forget too, we're just a Sekera/Filppula swap away from being in even better shape.

If this is all we do for the rest of the off season, I give Darcy and Pegula an A. If we make that Sekera/Filppula swap (or one like it), it turns into an A+.

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07-02-2011, 01:38 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
The goal every off season should be to get better, and we definitely accomplished that already. Regardless of whether Leino turns out to be a viable center, you'll have a hard time convincing me he's a downgrade to Connolly.

Let's not forget too, we're just a Sekera/Filppula swap away from being in even better shape.

If this is all we do for the rest of the off season, I give Darcy and Pegula an A. If we make that Sekera/Filppula swap (or one like it), it turns into an A+.
I still think it makes a ton of sense...I'll have to look up Flips contract status , not familar with it off-hand...

I think it would help with A. Gaustad to the 4C role where given limited minutes he can be more effective...and B. Moving Hecht back to the wing where he's more effective as well.

If we did acquire Flip without losing another forward, who does it displace?

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07-02-2011, 01:43 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Imagining Defeat View Post
If we did acquire Flip without losing another forward, who does it displace?
In all likelihood it'll be one of either McCormick or Kaleta, but I don't really view it as a displacement. We've gone through a lot of injuries in the bottom 6 the last couple seasons, and the "extra" is going to get a ton of ice time due to that + spot starts

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07-02-2011, 01:45 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Imagining Defeat View Post
I still think it makes a ton of sense...I'll have to look up Flips contract status , not familar with it off-hand...

I think it would help with A. Gaustad to the 4C role where given limited minutes he can be more effective...and B. Moving Hecht back to the wing where he's more effective as well.

If we did acquire Flip without losing another forward, who does it displace?
Flip has 1 year left for 3M. If we did acquire him I'd imagine that he displaces Hecht to 3rd line LW, who then displaces Gerbe to the 4th line.

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07-02-2011, 01:51 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
In all likelihood it'll be one of either McCormick or Kaleta, but I don't really view it as a displacement. We've gone through a lot of injuries in the bottom 6 the last couple seasons, and the "extra" is going to get a ton of ice time due to that + spot starts
Very good point. There will always be questions about Kaleta's health...and it never hurts to have guys pushing the starters for ice-time.

I don't want to start a riot, but I've never personally been a hugh Kaleta fan...and with the league really starting to focus on head shots/late hits etc...I fear that his effectiveness will hampered by too much thinking on the ice...

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07-02-2011, 03:59 PM
  #62
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I wonder if White signing on with DET hurts the idea of the Sekera/Filppula swap?

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07-03-2011, 01:14 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by OcAirlines View Post
Okay then we seem to disagree in our assessment of last years Centers. I think Roy-Connolly-Hecht wasn't good enough. Connolly sucked and now got replaced with a guy that still has a lot to prove and so far isn't a better option. Hecht is better on the wing and all our other potential 3rd-line centers aren't ideal options. Once we sign/trade for another Center to fill that spot or battle with Leino for the 2nd C, i'm happy.
Where did I say they were good enough? and you're still missing the point. Those 3 weren't our centers in the playoffs. So we have no idea how the team would have done had all 3 been in the lineup. I can't think of many if any teams that could lose 2 of their 3 best center options and succeed in the playoffs.


To expand this further and I mnetioned this in another thread. Last season, with Hecht/Connolly/Goose as our top 3 centers, we tore up the league from Jan 1st on. Hell Goose was on a 17g 40pt pace from that point on and no one would consider him an offensive dynamo. Even though those centers aren't good enough the team was still good enough with them to have an incredible 2nd half of the season.

I think too many posters are missing the bigger picture. Our depth of talent on wings allows us to ice an incredible lineup offensively. No one center is going to be tasked with much heavy lifting with the lines we will be able to ice. If Goose can produce those types of numbers in the setup we had. I'm fairly confident far more talented players like Leino and Adam will be able to do just fine.

Going into the season with Roy/Leino/Hecht/Adam/Goose is better than entering with Roy/Connolly/Hecht/Goose and infinately better than our playoff centers Connolly/Boyes/Goose/Nieds with Goose and evenutally Nieds being our two better centers.

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07-07-2011, 06:31 AM
  #64
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Sabres...

Roy
Leino(never played center at the NHL level)
Gaustad(4th liner)
McCormick(4th liner)
Hecht(winger who has filled in at center in the past because of no other options)

Rochester

Adam(It has been rumored that some people on the Sabres staff feel he would be better suited at wing)

Juniors(All drafted in the 3rd round or later)

Sundher
Shipley
Catenacci
Jacobs

Yet they pass on McNeil and take Armia. When is Darcy going to address the lack of center depth at every level of the organization?


Last edited by LabattBlue: 07-07-2011 at 06:38 AM.
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07-07-2011, 06:54 AM
  #65
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They took Armia because he has the upside of a top 10 pick and because McNeill wasn't a sure thing.

You don't draft the 7th or 8th best center at 16 overall. He did go on to pick 3 more centers this past draft though. Not everything can be done in one draft/offseason.

And it's far too early to judge Leino's game at center when we haven't even seen him lace up for us. He could be great, drastically helping the teams depth.

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07-07-2011, 07:11 AM
  #66
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Relax, the Sabres are fine at center for the immediate future. Roy and Leino are a good 1a/1b and Gaustad is fine on the 3rd or 4th line. Hecht can hold his own and Adam will get better. It'd be nice to have another good center for the 3rd line. I imagine they might look for help at the deadline if necessary.

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07-07-2011, 07:24 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by LabattBlue View Post
Yet they pass on McNeil and take Armia. When is Darcy going to address the lack of center depth at every level of the organization?
They passed on McNeill, because Armia was the better prospect in their eyes. The fact that they invited both McNeill and Beaulieu to their combine and ended up selecting neither one of them is an indication that they were very high on Armia. In that case selecting BPA was the right decision. It's unlikely that McNeill will make an impact in the next 2 years and maybe by then they have already solved the center issue.

Selecting three centers was a step in the right direction. You also forgot Isackson and Navin.

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07-07-2011, 07:34 AM
  #68
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To Labattblue

Why are you dimissing the centers we've drafted because of the round they were picked?

Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg were drafted in the 7th round or so.

Combined with you commentary on Adam, Leino and Goose. Its safe to say you have about as pessimistic a take on our center situation as there can be.


Last edited by joshjull: 07-07-2011 at 07:42 AM.
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07-07-2011, 10:12 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Miller30Sabres* View Post
We still are lacking a # 1 center that can score! Roy was good but im talking about a player like Stamkos, Backstrom, Stasney (from the Avs), or Parise!
Roy is more than capable of being our scoring centre - If not for the injury last year, I think a lot of Roy haters would be eating large amounts of crow right now... With the defensive improvements added, our forwards dont have to be quite as cautious in the offensive zone, which should lead to more aggressive attacking & scoring from Roy & others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LabattBlue View Post
Sabres...

Roy - 1st line centre - no issues here.
Leino(never played center at the NHL level) - I am quite sure that the Sabres probably scouted Leino prior to giving him a 6 yr deal, don't you think? If Buffalo wasn't certain he was going to be an upgrade at centre, Darcy wouldn't have signed him - give management some credit here, they obviously know something you dont.
Gaustad(4th liner) - I am gonna say "situational 3rd"/4th liner. One of the best faceoff men in the league, gritty bruiser who knows his job... problem?
McCormick(4th liner) - True, probably better suited to wing
Hecht(winger who has filled in at center in the past because of no other options) - Jochen Hecht is a natural centre who was moved to wing, not the other way around. Got noticably better at centre the more he played it last year... shook some rust off (has been playing wing for years, thats a lot of rust). If Adam makes the team out of camp, I would have no issue with Hecht being our 3rd line centre with Luke on his wing.

Rochester

Adam(It has been rumored that some people on the Sabres staff feel he would be better suited at wing) - Agreed. Should join the big club as a winger/"sometimes centre"

Juniors(All drafted in the 3rd round or later)

Sundher
Shipley
Catenacci
Jacobs

- counting junior players as depth is irrelevant, as is their draft round. Since only 10-12% of drafted players stick in the bigs, this is literally counting chickens before they hatch.

Yet they pass on McNeil and take Armia. When is Darcy going to address the lack of center depth at every level of the organization?

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07-07-2011, 10:31 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
To Labattblue

Why are you dimissing the centers we've drafted because of the round they were picked?

Guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg were drafted in the 7th round or so.

Combined with you commentary on Adam, Leino and Goose. Its safe to say you have about as pessimistic a take on our center situation as there can be.
I wasn't dismissing them because they were drafted in the 3rd round or later. You don't think that the later the round a player is drafted in, the lesser the talent(not in all cases, but in most?).

As far as me being pessimistic, excuse me if I grow tired every year of seeing guys like Hecht/Boyes filling in at center because there is no depth on the farm or having Gaustad on any of the top 3 lines.

What exactly did I state about Adam, Leino or Gaustad that is not true?

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07-07-2011, 11:30 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by LabattBlue View Post
I wasn't dismissing them because they were drafted in the 3rd round or later. You don't think that the later the round a player is drafted in, the lesser the talent(not in all cases, but in most?).

As far as me being pessimistic, excuse me if I grow tired every year of seeing guys like Hecht/Boyes filling in at center because there is no depth on the farm or having Gaustad on any of the top 3 lines.

What exactly did I state about Adam, Leino or Gaustad that is not true?
Joshjull didn't say you were lying, he said you are being a pessimist, big difference. You're analysis of those players is completely based on what you percieve as their apparent shortcomings, without listing any of their strengths (ie: Goose-Faceoffs, Hecht-PK, etc.). Glass is half empty sorta thing.

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07-07-2011, 11:48 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by LabattBlue View Post
I wasn't dismissing them because they were drafted in the 3rd round or later. You don't think that the later the round a player is drafted in, the lesser the talent(not in all cases, but in most?).

As far as me being pessimistic, excuse me if I grow tired every year of seeing guys like Hecht/Boyes filling in at center because there is no depth on the farm or having Gaustad on any of the top 3 lines.

What exactly did I state about Adam, Leino or Gaustad that is not true?
Just because a guy is father along at 18 years old doesn't mean he's going to be better at 22. How many 1st round picks turn into nothing because they were further along in their development and hence looked like they were more talented? The NHL is the biggest crapshoot around.

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07-07-2011, 12:51 PM
  #73
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I'd like to come out and say that Jochen is a pretty good center. He's not a bad center at all. He's better suited for the wing, to be sure, but that doesn't mean he is a bad center. He filled in admirably on the second line last season and is a pretty good option for a 3rd line center. Ideally we'd have an even better option that would allow him to move back to wing, but that doesn't take anything away from him.

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07-07-2011, 01:05 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
I'd like to come out and say that Jochen is a pretty good center. He's not a bad center at all. He's better suited for the wing, to be sure, but that doesn't mean he is a bad center. He filled in admirably on the second line last season and is a pretty good option for a 3rd line center. Ideally we'd have an even better option that would allow him to move back to wing, but that doesn't take anything away from him.
Agreed. And people forget that his offensive really came around after Roy went down last year and he was moved to center. Hecht had 20 pts in 33 games after Roy's injury, and only one of those came on the PP. They're probably thinking that he can contribute about 40 pts and play solid positional defense at that position. I wouldn't be surprised if they're having him work on faceoffs this offseason. Goose should be running a clinic with Leino and Hecht this summer.

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Old
07-07-2011, 11:13 PM
  #75
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For the immediate future I'd bite the bullet and sign Brendan Morrison. He made $725K last year with Calgary and put up Connollyesque numbers (66GP, 9G, 34A). We're not even sure Derek Roy will be 100%. It could take him half the season to regain his form. Nothing against Hecht. He was fine last season. But he was awful when he had to play center in 2008-09. He's not getting any younger either. Morrison would be nice insurance.

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