If we're talking about Evander Kane, might as well shoot for Jamie Benn. Kid has back to back 22 goal seasons already (56 points last year I think) and he's played well with Richards and is a little more of the physical banger than Kane, IMO.
Either would suffice I am just a big Kane fan think the kid's going to really impress then again he might just rot away in WPG.
Trade deadline guys, wait and see if we're sitting in the 4-6 seed and looking strong Sather will make a move to get us over the hump. The guy knows how to trade, and apparently just learned how to sign UFA's to good cap hits.
The Stars would never do that trade. Not in a million years. I do that, and run off laughing. Benn is pretty much Dubinsky on steroids (in a metaphoric sense, not literal).
It would take Staal to even get talks started.
He is looking for Zuboff replacement. MDZ is it (Because MDZ's value is at a low point he may ask for a sweetener, I'll give you that). Dubi can play C. Their Centers are Mike Ribeiro, Steve Ott, Jake Dowell. Dubi fills a need.
By the way, as a rangers fan I would not make this trade, the pack line already has something that takes years to acquire, chemistry. Dubi - AA and Cally got something going and I would hate to break that up.
He is looking for Zuboff replacement. MDZ is it (Because MDZ's value is at a low point he may ask for a sweetener, I'll give you that). Dubi can play C. Their Centers are Mike Ribeiro, Steve Ott, Jake Dowell. Dubi fills a need.
They began grooming Benn to be a center last season and he was successful there. 56 points in 69 games at 20 years old. MDZ's value is at an all-time low and his is as high as it gets. A sweetener? This is exactly what we were saying about fans overvaluing their players a few pages back. MDZ + Kreider + Anisimov might get it done. What's their incentive to move him? It's not like he's expensive.
If you cant get the right deal, meaning one where you're not overpaying then you experiment with what you have. Dubinsky would be my first option. I'd definitely consider Christian Thomas for that 1st line.
Otherwise wait til the trade deadline when asking prices might come down and/or their might be someone available due to impending UFA status at the end of the season, or a team is out of the playoff race, etc.
They began grooming Benn to be a center last season and he was successful there. 56 points in 69 games at 20 years old. MDZ's value is at an all-time low and his is as high as it gets. A sweetener? This is exactly what we were saying about fans overvaluing their players a few pages back. MDZ + Kreider + Anisimov might get it done. What's their incentive to move him? It's not like he's expensive.
But he is young and full of potential. Dubi is consistent and has proven himself under pressure. Like I said earlier, as a rangers fan, I would not make this trade. But I am confident sure Joey would bite.
Sweetener is not Kreider and AA, that is a discussion stopper. To me a sweetener is more like picks.
Dubi has become a household name since the fight with Ovie and the 24/7, Unless you are a real hockey fan, Jamie is an unknown.
Last edited by Kwayry: 07-03-2011 at 02:02 AM.
Reason: Edit
He is looking for Zuboff replacement. MDZ is it (Because MDZ's value is at a low point he may ask for a sweetener, I'll give you that).
Zuboff? I think you mean Zubov.
As for Del Zotto, Zubov was 1st in scoring on a cup winning team, over legends such as Mark Messier and Brian Leetch. Del Zotto is a good kid, and talented, but to compare the two at this point is simply ludicrous in terms of accomplishments, skill, and potential. Zubov is a borderline hall of famer. Del Zotto is a 20 year old kid trying to make a name for himself in the NHL. He had an excellent rookie season, better than most 19 year olds, but nothing he's done has indicated that he is even close in caliber with Sergei Zubov. A more apt compairson would be Tomas Kaberle with a mean streak. Great outlet pass, phenomenal vision, but average at best in the defensive zone. The major difference between the two, though, is that Del Zotto isn't afraid to initiate contact while defending against an opposing rush, whilst Kaberle nearly 100% of the time will go with the poke check.
Also, the Stars don't really need MDZ. They have Alex Goligoski, who emerged as a top-notch defenseman in Dallas. He put up 48 points last season as a 25 year old, in his 2nd full NHL season. He's the real deal, and with Philip Larsen in tow, Del Zotto isn't much of a need at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry
Dubi can play C. Their Centers are Mike Ribeiro, Steve Ott, Jake Dowell. Dubi fills a need.
Dubinsky is not nearly as good of a center as a winger -- you should know this as a Ranger fan. He doesn't have the vision or hockey sense to be a legitimate #2 option, in my estimation. He's a fantastic 2nd line winger, though, because of his excellent puck control abilities. He can make use of his size and lower body strength more so at wing that at center. He would be a nice fit in Dallas, but they don't really need him. They basically take a major downgrade to get Dubinsky in giving up Benn, who is vastly superior to Dubinsky in nearly every facet of the game. So, in the end, it actually hurts the Stars forward depth. Instead of trading their best player for a LW, which they don't need, they'd be better of going after a legit #2 center, not someone who has been converted to a different position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry
By the way, as a rangers fan I would not make this trade, the pack line already has something that takes years to acquire, chemistry. Dubi - AA and Cally got something going and I would hate to break that up.
"Chemistry" is a nice concept, but when you have a chance to get Jamie Benn at that price, you do it. Benn is a much, much rarer comoddity than Dubinsky is, although Dubinsky is a solid player. Dallas would never even consider that, though, so it's essentiall a moot point.
But he is young and full of potential. Dubi is consistent and has proven himself under pressure. Like I said earlier, as a rangers fan, I would not make this trade. But I am confident sure Joey would bite.
Sweetener is not Kreider and AA, that is a discussion stopper. To me a sweetener is more like picks.
Benn is 3 years younger than Dubinsky. In terms of "potential" Benn completely blows Dubinsky out of the water.
He had 10 goals by November and finished the year with 24. Did he have a good year? Yes, but I'm going to be completely honest in saying I was extremely disappointed with his play from December, and onwards. He should have topped 30 goals. Instead, he yet again started to believe he was a reincarnation of Jagr, tried to play a skill game, and subsequently disappeared from the score sheet. This is his problem. Arrogance can be a good thing, but Dubinsky is far too arrogant for his own good.
As for Del Zotto, Zubov was 1st in scoring on a cup winning team, over legends such as Mark Messier and Brian Leetch. Del Zotto is a good kid, and talented, but to compare the two at this point is simply ludicrous in terms of accomplishments, skill, and potential. Zubov is a borderline hall of famer. Del Zotto is a 20 year old kid trying to make a name for himself in the NHL. He had an excellent rookie season, better than most 19 year olds, but nothing he's done has indicated that he is even close in caliber with Sergei Zubov. A more apt compairson would be Tomas Kaberle with a mean streak. Great outlet pass, phenomenal vision, but average at best in the defensive zone. The major difference between the two, though, is that Del Zotto isn't afraid to initiate contact while defending against an opposing rush, whilst Kaberle nearly 100% of the time will go with the poke check.
Also, the Stars don't really need MDZ. They have Alex Goligoski, who emerged as a top-notch defenseman in Dallas. He put up 48 points last season as a 25 year old, in his 2nd full NHL season. He's the real deal, and with Philip Larsen in tow, Del Zotto isn't much of a need at all.
Dubinsky is not nearly as good of a center as a winger -- you should know this as a Ranger fan. He doesn't have the vision or hockey sense to be a legitimate #2 option, in my estimation. He's a fantastic 2nd line winger, though, because of his excellent puck control abilities. He can make use of his size and lower body strength more so at wing that at center. He would be a nice fit in Dallas, but they don't really need him. They basically take a major downgrade to get Dubinsky in giving up Benn, who is vastly superior to Dubinsky in nearly every facet of the game. So, in the end, it actually hurts the Stars forward depth. Instead of trading their best player for a LW, which they don't need, they'd be better of going after a legit #2 center, not someone who has been converted to a different position.
"Chemistry" is a nice concept, but when you have a chance to get Jamie Benn at that price, you do it. Benn is a much, much rarer comoddity than Dubinsky is, although Dubinsky is a solid player. Dallas would never even consider that, though, so it's essentiall a moot point.
That's a long response, let me see if I can get to all your points.
Yes I meant Zubov.
Having heard Torts say it enough, Dubi is a better wing than C, but that does not mean Dubi cannot be an good C.
Dallas needs a lot of things right now, one of them is a C with jam who is willing to drop 'em.
We can argue about potential until the cows come home, but I would rather cash in any potential now while I can. I have seen a lot of players (And stocks for that matter) that had great potential but flamed out.
Chemistry is one of those things that you will know you found when you see it. It is difficult to quatify. I don't mean to get too deep on you, But if you find it, keep it. For all we know, Jamie may no like the bright lights of NYC, this is not a video game (No shot again), he may not like the food, the weather, whatever the crap it is. He may not mesh with Torts, with the players, too many unknowns to take a chance. I am not saying Jamie is a good value, but to trade him for Dubi, who like Torts likes to say, we know him and he knows us, is not worth it to me
You can't take variables such as that into account.
If I get offered, let's say, Bobby Ryan for Brandon Dubinsky, I'm not keeping Dubinsky simply because of what Tortorella thinks of him -- honestly, I don't think he thinks as much of Dubinsky as a lot on here say. If he doesn't get a letter next season, I think that would speak volumes of his perceived maturity.
Benn is a Torts kinda guy. 100% effort, big, physical, and smart. He can take a team and put it on his back. He did that when Richards went down earlier in the year, and was playing at a PPG clip at the end of the season. Honestly, Tortorella would probably like Benn more as a player than Dubinsky, simply because he is a much, much, much less frustrating player. The thing that sets them apart is hockey IQ, which is one of the reasons Dubinsky is so inconsistent.
You can't take variables such as that into account.
If I get offered, let's say, Bobby Ryan for Brandon Dubinsky, I'm not keeping Dubinsky simply because of what Tortorella thinks of him -- honestly, I don't think he thinks as much of Dubinsky as a lot on here say. If he doesn't get a letter next season, I think that would speak volumes of his perceived maturity.
Benn is a Torts kinda guy. 100% effort, big, physical, and smart. He can take a team and put it on his back. He did that when Richards went down earlier in the year, and was playing at a PPG clip at the end of the season. Honestly, Tortorella would probably like Benn more as a player than Dubinsky, simply because he is a much, much, much less frustrating player. The thing that sets them apart is hockey IQ, which is one of the reasons Dubinsky is so inconsistent.
No way man, not dubi for Benn. On the other hand Dubi for Ryan I will do in a blink of an eye, Bobby ryan is more established than Benn.
Please tell me you don't hold a grudge against Dubi because of the hold out. Because Rupp said it, Brad said it, Ovie said it, even crybaby Crosby said it, Dubi and Cally are the heart and soul of this rangers rebirth.
No way man, not dubi for Benn. On the other hand Dubi for Ryan I will do in a blink of an eye, Bobby ryan is more established than Benn.
Please tell me you don't hold a grudge against Dubi because of the hold out. Because Rupp said it, Brad said it, Ovie said it, even crybaby Crosby said it, Dubi and Cally are the heart and soul of this rangers rebirth.
I have no grudge against Dubinsky; I just don't think he's a mature player in any sense. His play on the ice, is what makes me consider him "immature". The dumb penalites and ill-advised stick handles is what ticks me off. I couldn't care less about the "holdout", considering Sather was offering him peanuts. He rightfully held out for more.
As for the comparison, I really don't understand. Benn is superior to Dubinsky in every way. He scored more points last season, playing 13 less games, and being in his 2nd year. He has PPG potential. Dubinsky's high-end potential is 60-65 points. In terms of offensive caliber, Benn is by far the more skilled player. Which is why I do not see why ANYBODY would even consider saying no to Dubinsky for Benn, unless you haven't watched Benn.
I have no grudge against Dubinsky; I just don't think he's a mature player in any sense. His play on the ice, is what makes me consider him "immature". The dumb penalites and ill-advised stick handles is what ticks me off. I couldn't care less about the "holdout", considering Sather was offering him peanuts. He rightfully held out for more.
As for the comparison, I really don't understand. Benn is superior to Dubinsky in every way. He scored more points last season, playing 13 less games, and being in his 2nd year. He has PPG potential. Dubinsky's high-end potential is 60-65 points. In terms of offensive caliber, Benn is by far the more skilled player. Which is why I do not see why ANYBODY would even consider saying no to Dubinsky for Benn, unless you haven't watched Benn.
I live in Dallas, I have seen a lot of the stars games.
Let Wolski get first crack at it. If you show him you want him to be a big part of the team, he might just step right up and be a great option on LW for us. That, and it's his contract year, which he'll be a RFA with arbitration rights. You don't think he'll want a big payday?
He had 10 goals by November and finished the year with 24. Did he have a good year? Yes, but I'm going to be completely honest in saying I was extremely disappointed with his play from December, and onwards. He should have topped 30 goals. Instead, he yet again started to believe he was a reincarnation of Jagr, tried to play a skill game, and subsequently disappeared from the score sheet. This is his problem. Arrogance can be a good thing, but Dubinsky is far too arrogant for his own good.
agreed, I thought he was going to take a huge step in his career, but instead he took a step in a huge pile of ****
I think Wolski gets a shot at it. It is a low rish/high reward type of move, and if he can get going we all know that he could put up 60 points in the NHL
Some of the trades here involve breaking up the team just after we get what many thought was the final piece. This is not NHL 11 or some crappy fantasy stat league.
The Rangers have very good team chemistry and needed an additional offensive talent to make them more competitive. They've got that now. So let's stand pat, rather than chase that dream of putting together a fantasy roster by trading our youth and homegrown talent. That is the old Rangers method that everyone correctly ridicules.
Depending on camp, Wolski or Dubinsky get first crack. I don't mind Boyle getting an audition for the top spot either, though I bet if Rupp has got enough gas in that tank and meshes with Prust and Boyle, that that line eventually ends up getting 3d line minutes b/c of Rupp's FO ability.
