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Old
07-04-2011, 01:39 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief View Post
Wow!!! In 6 seasons the team has spent to the cap every year, missed the playoffs once, never made it out of the second round and "Sather = firmly in the top 10, if not top 5"???? And this while handing out three of the worst UFA contracts of all time, which resulted in wasted years.

Sather may be entering his finest moment as Rangers GM but other the the last couple of years he's been more bad than good.
We are also one of the league's few clubs to have made the playoffs every season but one.

More importantly, the organization has improved its infrastructure every year since the lockout, and we're beginning to see the fruits of all that work. To me the trend is by far the more important element of this equation 5-10 more points in the regular season and a few more wins in the playoffs.

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07-05-2011, 09:01 AM
  #152
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As much as this looks to be heading in a positive direction, it's too early to annoint Sather for ANYTHING. A good GM would have had this team heading in a positive direction in 3-5 years, not 12.

HOPEFULLY he finally has this team positioned to be perennial Stanley Cup contenders...but you win on the ice, not by declaring it in an internet forum.

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07-05-2011, 09:05 AM
  #153
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Yeah I'm pretty sure people were singing his praises on July 5th, 2007, also.

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07-05-2011, 09:36 AM
  #154
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As of right now, I am very happy the Rangers have Sather as GM. Has he made some mistakes? Of course he did. He has also pulled off some moves that flat out fleeced other teams GMs.

My thinking is that our prospects were so bad, that Sather felt that he needed to over pay for garbage like Redden, Drury, and Gomez. Now that we have a great prospect pool, I really believe he will spend the money wisely on UFA. No more 6-7m contracts on mediocre players.

I just dont see Sather dropping money like he did before. There just isnt any reason to do it now. We have plenty of kids coming through the pipeline. Assuming Sather has learned his lesson, Sather has done a great job these past couple seasons.

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07-05-2011, 09:47 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Like that has really stopped us before... Remember Chris Drury? He was disposed of about a week ago, NMC and all.
Ummm, some perspective is in order here...Drury wasn't 'disposed of'...because of Drury's NMC, his buyout is still tying up dead cap space of $3.7 million this coming season and $1.67 million next season.

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07-05-2011, 09:56 AM
  #156
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If a true GM were on top of his game, 11 yrs should be sufficient to move a team from one end of the spectrum to the other end. Other teams have done that in half the time but to be fair, none of those teams would have been able to do that in a NY market. Bottoming out is unacceptable, so that leaves you with the FA market or trade bait. You have to draft properly to have trade bait and the history of that takes at least a couple of years to prove if you are on the right side of the evaluation process or not. With the current scouting program finally in place, the last three to four years are alot better than the previous seven. And we all know the history of the FA market.
Rating: beginning dismal, to a current acceptable.

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07-05-2011, 09:59 AM
  #157
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Yes, he overpaid some contracts in the past...... Drury, Gomez, Redden, Rozzy. That coincide with personnel change around him. Maloney, Renney and other persons gone, somehow those bad contracts stopped, it would me wonder.

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07-05-2011, 10:11 AM
  #158
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If Sather didnt have Barnett, Gorton, Clark, etc holding his hand the last few years he'd have made the same mistakes, pretty sure of that. The mistakes stopped once those guys came on board, though the reaching for size and muscle has continued, figure they'll get that right some year.

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07-05-2011, 10:14 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
If Sather didnt have Barnett, Gorton, Clark, etc holding his hand the last few years he'd have made the same mistakes, pretty sure of that. The mistakes stopped once those guys came on board, though the reaching for size and muscle has continued, figure they'll get that right some year.
Clark and Gorton are a big part of why the Rangers are a good team today. Do we know who is responsible for bringing them in? I am assuming its Sather.

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07-05-2011, 11:06 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadHookUp View Post
Clark and Gorton are a big part of why the Rangers are a good team today. Do we know who is responsible for bringing them in? I am assuming its Sather.
Right. You can't commend the work of upper and middle management without commending the principal for making those personnel decisions and getting the right people for the job.

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07-05-2011, 11:15 AM
  #161
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I think ever since Torts came on board this team has been heading in the right direction. He has cleared out nearly all the dead weight and had Sather make some very positive moves.

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07-05-2011, 04:22 PM
  #162
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i think torts has some what of an influence on sather. i really think glen asks torts about some moves,players they like and what not. is it ultimately torts decision? no, but i think he has played a minor role in the turnover of our organization's philosophy. big,big kudos to clark,gorton and company. finally we all have something to feel good about.

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07-05-2011, 04:25 PM
  #163
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he still needs to sign our RFAs and if Richards has a full NMC throughout the life of his contract, that is going to be an epic failure down the road.

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07-05-2011, 04:34 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
If Sather didnt have Barnett, Gorton, Clark, etc holding his hand the last few years he'd have made the same mistakes, pretty sure of that. The mistakes stopped once those guys came on board, though the reaching for size and muscle has continued, figure they'll get that right some year.
I agree, and I think the perception of where the Rangers are headed permeates from this. Management has not made any glaring mistakes the past couple of years. Im convinced people measure that against decisions that were truly debacles and inflate the job performance because of it.

The Rangers farm system is the best example of this. It was a mess under Sather the first half of his tenure here. You'll find people on this board that think the system is the greatest thing since sliced bread these days. Is that because it is truly great, or are we measuring a respectable (yet mediocre) farm system against the travesty of the past? Im going with the latter.

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07-05-2011, 05:05 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree, and I think the perception of where the Rangers are headed permeates from this. Management has not made any glaring mistakes the past couple of years. Im convinced people measure that against decisions that were truly debacles and inflate the job performance because of it.

The Rangers farm system is the best example of this. It was a mess under Sather the first half of his tenure here. You'll find people on this board that think the system is the greatest thing since sliced bread these days. Is that because it is truly great, or are we measuring a respectable (yet mediocre) farm system against the travesty of the past? Im going with the latter.
While your first point has *some* merit, your second point essentially kills the whole argument. HF ranks our "mediocre" farm system 7th overall, even after several top prospects were lost to graduation.

People need to stop looking at things in a vacuum. For a team routinely picking in the teens, our drafting record in the past 4-5 years has been outstanding.

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07-05-2011, 05:14 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
People need to stop looking at things in a vacuum. For a team routinely picking in the teens, our drafting record in the past 4-5 years has been outstanding.
That remains to be seen. The last three years have been Kreider, McIlraith and Miller in the first rounds. A bit premature to call them outstanding just yet.

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07-05-2011, 05:15 PM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
While your first point has *some* merit, your second point essentially kills the whole argument. HF ranks our "mediocre" farm system 7th overall, even after several top prospects were lost to graduation.

People need to stop looking at things in a vacuum. For a team routinely picking in the teens, our drafting record in the past 4-5 years has been outstanding.
Regarding the system, 3 words for you:

Quantity over quality

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07-05-2011, 05:25 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
That remains to be seen. The last three years have been Kreider, McIlraith and Miller in the first rounds. A bit premature to call them outstanding just yet.
Fine, 2009-2011 look promising but the verdict is out. 2005-2008 were excellent, all things considered. Complemented by Sather's trades for McGonagh and Erixon = outstanding.

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07-05-2011, 05:31 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Regarding the system, 3 words for you:

Quantity over quality
I call BS. We have 4 forwards with top line upside (Kreider, Thomas, MZA, Fasth), and 3 defensemen with top pair upside (McD, Erixon, McIlrath). There's no guarantee that any of them reach their potential or even have regular NHL careers, but the quality is there. Especially for a team which never picks in the top 5-10. If you don't believe me, just look at the teams ahead of NYR in the organizational ratings -- all perennial bottom feeders (LAK and Nashville are just now beginning to compete).

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07-05-2011, 05:52 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
As much as this looks to be heading in a positive direction, it's too early to annoint Sather for ANYTHING. A good GM would have had this team heading in a positive direction in 3-5 years, not 12.

HOPEFULLY he finally has this team positioned to be perennial Stanley Cup contenders...but you win on the ice, not by declaring it in an internet forum.
Bingo...the jury is still very much out on sather, and he's still got quite a hill to climb until he can even be considered as an "ok" GM

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07-05-2011, 06:11 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
I said he gave out horrid contracts in 2007-2008, I didn't say the club as a whole was moving in the wrong direction.

It's not that I want to forget "Bad Sather," it's that I don't give a damn that he was bad 7 years ago. By your logic, if he were excellent from 2000-2004 and terrible from 2005 on, you'd want to keep him because of several excellent years almost a decade ago. I care much more about the current direction of the team.
No that's not my logic, please don't try to put words in my posts, I thought Neil smith had to go and he won a Cup....and again while I've agreed that he has done better lately, and the team has been on the upswing, he still hasn't won squat...and really he is one poor signing away from reverting back to "Bad Sather".

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07-05-2011, 06:12 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
People need to stop looking at things in a vacuum.
Oh man, this is irony at its finest. Im looking at Sather's entire tenure as GM of the Rangers. 11+ years that could be defined as unspectacular at best and inept at worst.

You are touting the drafting of the last few years as "excellent" despite 2 of our first round picks playing any sort of important role with the Rangers since 2005; and Del Zotto was an absolute trainwreck last season. Oh and please notify me when Zuccarello and Fasth are playing top line minutes in the NHL - I almost spit out my drink when I read that musing.

You could look at the track record of the last 11 years to judge Glen Sather - thats the best way to go. Hell, you can even "look at things in a vacuum" as long as theyre based on reality. But you seem to be living in some sort of fantasyland when attempting to judge the job Sather has done here.

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07-05-2011, 06:14 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason530 View Post
Yes, he overpaid some contracts in the past...... Drury, Gomez, Redden, Rozzy. That coincide with personnel change around him. Maloney, Renney and other persons gone, somehow those bad contracts stopped, it would me wonder.
Brashear was a bad contract as was Boogard (RIP)...Sather gets the credit for the good and the bad.

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07-05-2011, 06:14 PM
  #174
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If we win a cup, I'd **** in every single pair of pants I own.

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07-05-2011, 06:29 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Oh man, this is irony at its finest. Im looking at Sather's entire tenure as GM of the Rangers. 11+ years that could be defined as unspectacular at best and inept at worst.

You are touting the drafting of the last few years as "excellent" despite 2 of our first round picks playing any sort of important role with the Rangers since 2005; and Del Zotto was an absolute trainwreck last season. Oh and please notify me when Zuccarello and Fasth are playing top line minutes in the NHL - I almost spit out my drink when I read that musing.

You could look at the track record of the last 11 years to judge Glen Sather - thats the best way to go. Hell, you can even "look at things in a vacuum" as long as theyre based on reality. But you seem to be living in some sort of fantasyland when attempting to judge the job Sather has done here.
Equivocation and dishonesty. Equivocation: He was using the don't look at things in a vacuum line about comparing us to other teams. You're using it to mean one team over a long period of time. Dishonesty: He (as well as just about everyone) has conceded that Sather sucked pre-lockout. The argument hasn't been his entire tenure is a success, it's that he's doing a good job right now, has been for some time now and should stay as GM.


Last edited by Kel Varnsen: 07-05-2011 at 06:36 PM.
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