HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Notices

Your 2011-2012 Sens Lineup/Roster Thread Part 2

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-11-2011, 02:14 PM
  #301
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micklebot View Post
To be fair, when you add in mins per game it evens out a bit. Lee had an extra 2:24 secs per game, on average, to get those hit and block totals. He still comes out ahead though.
True, I had indicated this earlier. I suppose I just can't understand why some people want to dismiss Lee's progress last year.

I find it interesting that fans on this board will defend Foligno, suggesting at 23 he may still develop into more than a third liner, or being excited about Filatov and his potential.

Yet with a 24 year old Lee, a player that demonstrated he could play and be effective in the shutdown role, no give at all.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 07-11-2011 at 02:22 PM.
Holdurbreathe is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 03:14 PM
  #302
Karlssonlee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,548
vCash: 500
I think Brian Lee will be properly used by Maclean.

His breakout pass is great and he's willing to take a hit to make that pass. He'll fit into our puck possession brand of hockey, with his hockey sense, skating, mobility.

Karlssonlee is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 03:40 PM
  #303
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlssonlee View Post
I think Brian Lee will be properly used by Maclean.

His breakout pass is great and he's willing to take a hit to make that pass. He'll fit into our puck possession brand of hockey, with his hockey sense, skating, mobility.
This is the key for me.

While Carkner doesn't make a lot of glaring mistakes, plays physical and obviously brings some serious toughness to the conversation, he consistently reverts to the simple play to avoid mistakes, which is typically dumping the puck up ice, or making a simple pass to someone who is then under immense pressure to give up the puck themselves. This is not old Senators style hockey of the early 90's, any more than it is Red Wing hockey of today. It doesn't create a lot of obvious gaffs you can lay on him, but we tend not to have the puck very often when he is forced to handle the puck himself. He is the hockey equivalent of a "chucker".

Lee, while not having any really major attribute that is much better than average, does skate and handle the puck relatively well, and will make some decent passes without just making the simple play that often puts the team at a strategic disadvantage. He is also pretty feisty, so we don't get overly hurt by battles in the corner with him. He'll win some, and lose some, but certainly isn't worse than Carkner in this regard, who is strong, but isn't that strong on the puck to win a lot of battles for possession.

I like having both guys in the line-up, but if one of the rookies wins a top 6 job, I think it's ok to have one of Lee or Carkner sit most nights, at least until an injury occurs. After all, the 7th d-man usually gets 40+ games in every season anyway just based on injuries. If either of this guys sit for weeks on end, I don't think too many people will get up in arms about hindering their development.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 03:46 PM
  #304
delchief
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 600
vCash: 500
Some really good discussion here.

If Lee makes the starting roster out of camp I see the following D pairings....

Phillips - Lee
Cowen - Karlsson
Gonchar - Carkner
(Kuba)

Kuba either sits or is traded. I think the buy-out period has already come and gone.

If Lee doesn't make the starting roster out of camp then I see these pairings....

Phillips - Gonchar
Cowen - Karlsson
Kuba - Carkner
(Lee)

With Rundblad getting the call-up mid-season.

delchief is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 04:09 PM
  #305
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,561
vCash: 500
I personally think the fact that Murray signed Kenopka is a big sign that he doesn`t expect Carkner to be playing everyday.

People were talking about how we don`t need more fighting, I don`t think that is the case.

Powdered Toast Man is online now  
Old
07-11-2011, 04:32 PM
  #306
DefenseMinister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
I realize that Lee looked the best paired with Phillips for about 20 games (as almost all inexperienced d-men historically have) but does that honestly justify making him a top pairing defenseman, playing huge minutes against the other team's best players every night?

If the guy does play on this team (shudder), he can't be anything more than a 6th defenseman realistically so I don't see how he gets paired with Phillips.

Despite what people think of Kuba, Gonchar, Phillips and Karlsson, there is no way that Brian Lee gets more ice time or more of a role than any of these players.

DefenseMinister is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 05:11 PM
  #307
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
I realize that Lee looked the best paired with Phillips for about 20 games (as almost all inexperienced d-men historically have) but does that honestly justify making him a top pairing defenseman, playing huge minutes against the other team's best players every night?
If the guy does play on this team (shudder), he can't be anything more than a 6th defenseman realistically so I don't see how he gets paired with Phillips.

Despite what people think of Kuba, Gonchar, Phillips and Karlsson, there is no way that Brian Lee gets more ice time or more of a role than any of these players.
Definitely Lee has to prove last year wasn't a fluke, however I see no reason for not pairing him with Phillips if he continues last year's play.

Small point, but Karlsson, Gonchar, and Kuba were all tried with Phillips and couldn't stick.

Holdurbreathe is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 05:19 PM
  #308
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 14,226
vCash: 500
It's amazing how many people on the trade board look at our lineup and expect us to be horrendous. I'm not saying we'll be competing for the Cup (lol), but I really hope teams expect to come in and beat us 10-1 because it's certainly not gonna be that easy (and they're gonna get absolutely pounded by our bottom six to boot).

SpezDispenser is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 05:51 PM
  #309
DefenseMinister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Definitely Lee has to prove last year wasn't a fluke, however I see no reason for not pairing him with Phillips if he continues last year's play.

Small point, but Karlsson, Gonchar, and Kuba were all tried with Phillips and couldn't stick.
Everyone sucked with everyone last season until they got a real goalie and then funny enough, the entire defense corps looked a whole lot better no matter their configuration was. It wasn't limited to just Phillips and Lee.

For the longterm outlook of the franchise, I would be far more concerned with putting my future #1 defenseman Karlsson with a veteran like Phillips in order to insulate him as much as possible as opposed to ensuring Brian Lee gets better minutes.

DefenseMinister is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 06:20 PM
  #310
Cujomi
Leeuw YNWA Ddraig
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,872
vCash: 500
Why do people still downplay Lee? It's like they didn't watch him at all at the end of last season. Clearly there is something there worth exploring. He's got size, and there was enough talent (or they thought there was enough talent) to warrant being taken at 9th overall. Sometimes defencemen take longer to develop.

He's only 24.

Cujomi is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 06:21 PM
  #311
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefenseMinister View Post
Everyone sucked with everyone last season until they got a real goalie and then everyone looked a whole lot better no matter their configuration was. It wasn't limited to just Phillips and Lee.

For the longterm outlook of the franchise, I would be far more concerned with putting my future #1 defenseman Karlsson with a veteran like Phillips in order to insulate him as much as possible as opposed to ensuring Brian Lee gets better minutes.
Karlsson is still developing his defensive game, he doesn't need to be playing against the top lines on a regular basis just yet.

I also don't feel he needs to be insulated as you suggest, I just believe he needs to have a partner that can keep opponents honest. I am not sure which of the Sens defencemen is best, but believe Cowen would make a excellent partner for Karlsson.

I also don't understand the dramatics you seem to feel are required to make your points more meaningful. Lee playing with Phillips has no impact on Karlsson's development or ice time, in the near or long term.

This past season Karlsson didn't play with Phillips much, yet he still managed 23:30 TOI per game average, the highest on the Sens. All these minutes were good minutes for his development, there just aren't good, better, best minutes.

I trust MacLean will allow Karlsson to the opportunity to develop, without worrying about labels like this #1 defenceman crap.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 07-11-2011 at 06:29 PM.
Holdurbreathe is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 08:46 PM
  #312
The Mars Volchenkov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 37,076
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to The Mars Volchenkov
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
It's amazing how many people on the trade board look at our lineup and expect us to be horrendous. I'm not saying we'll be competing for the Cup (lol), but I really hope teams expect to come in and beat us 10-1 because it's certainly not gonna be that easy (and they're gonna get absolutely pounded by our bottom six to boot).
No offense, but this team isn't very good. I fully expect us to be horrendous as well. We're going to have a very tough time scoring goals.

The Mars Volchenkov is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 09:00 PM
  #313
shmab
Registered User
 
shmab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 754
vCash: 500
"Tovie"

shmab is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 09:04 PM
  #314
John Holmes*
Spuds MacLean™
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,214
vCash: 87
Phillips isn't going to insulate anybody.

Has nobody else noticed that Phillips sucked until he was paired with Chara, then was solid with Volchenkov, but that once it was up to him to be THE guy, he failed miserably?

Phillips is only effective with a strong partner. He is not a guy that can carry a weak partner.

He is the weak partner.

John Holmes* is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 09:07 PM
  #315
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
No offense, but this team isn't very good. I fully expect us to be horrendous as well. We're going to have a very tough time scoring goals.
I'm usually a glass half-full kind of guy, but gotta agree. We are not going to be very good, and we could be quite bad. And I mean worst in the league, kind of bad.

If Anderson puts in a Vezina type performance and our Powerplay somehow becomes an elite one, that's about the only way I see us getting within a sniff of the #8 seed. Have a goalie steal a bunch of games, and a powerplay steal a bunch more.

That, and a much improved SO record too.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 09:19 PM
  #316
Afro Thunder*
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,653
vCash: 500
For once I agree with Holmes.

Afro Thunder* is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 09:29 PM
  #317
delchief
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 600
vCash: 500
Quote:
If Anderson puts in a Vezina type performance and our Powerplay somehow becomes an elite one, that's about the only way I see us getting within a sniff of the #8 seed. Have a goalie steal a bunch of games, and a powerplay steal a bunch more.

That, and a much improved SO record too.
Yep, that's pretty much what it would take.

delchief is offline  
Old
07-11-2011, 11:37 PM
  #318
EJsens1
HFBoards Sponsor
 
EJsens1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post

If Anderson puts in a Vezina type performance and our Powerplay somehow becomes an elite one, that's about the only way I see us getting within a sniff of the #8 seed. Have a goalie steal a bunch of games, and a powerplay steal a bunch more.
So essentially you are saying we are the Montreal Canadiens?

EJsens1 is offline  
Old
07-12-2011, 12:07 AM
  #319
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: uOttawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,645
vCash: 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Phillips isn't going to insulate anybody.

Has nobody else noticed that Phillips sucked until he was paired with Chara, then was solid with Volchenkov, but that once it was up to him to be THE guy, he failed miserably?

Phillips is only effective with a strong partner. He is not a guy that can carry a weak partner.

He is the weak partner.
I think that last season he was just trying to do to much. For example, when paired with Gonchar, it became some backwards universe where Phillips was rushing the puck every shift and Gonchar was the stay-at-home guy.

CanadianHockey is offline  
Old
07-12-2011, 08:30 AM
  #320
Cujomi
Leeuw YNWA Ddraig
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,872
vCash: 500
We're going to be better than people expect us to be. You can count on that.

Cujomi is offline  
Old
07-12-2011, 09:27 AM
  #321
guyzeur
Registered User
 
guyzeur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,240
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Phillips isn't going to insulate anybody.

Has nobody else noticed that Phillips sucked until he was paired with Chara, then was solid with Volchenkov, but that once it was up to him to be THE guy, he failed miserably?

Phillips is only effective with a strong partner. He is not a guy that can carry a weak partner.

He is the weak partner.
JH you are such a joy to read every day, I can't function without reading your daily posts.

Your co-workers and friends must love you very much, keep up spreading joy around you.

guyzeur is offline  
Old
07-12-2011, 09:37 AM
  #322
Powdered Toast Man
Is he a ham?
 
Powdered Toast Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,561
vCash: 500
Phillips was so bad without Anton that he made the rest of the team horrible even when he wasn't on the ice. I am pretty sure I saw him stab Pascal Leclaire one morning behind the Tim Hortons in Kanata.

Powdered Toast Man is online now  
Old
07-12-2011, 10:01 AM
  #323
Holdurbreathe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
Phillips was so bad without Anton that he made the rest of the team horrible even when he wasn't on the ice. I am pretty sure I saw him stab Pascal Leclaire one morning behind the Tim Hortons in Kanata.
You saw that too??!!!!

Holdurbreathe is offline  
Old
07-12-2011, 10:45 AM
  #324
petelevi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,179
vCash: 500
Colin Greening's profile is up (http://eyeonthesens.wordpress.com/20...olin-greening/). Brian Lee will follow.

petelevi is offline  
Old
07-12-2011, 10:53 AM
  #325
Icelevel
little bit better
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,926
vCash: 500
thanks pete

Icelevel is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:53 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.