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What top 4 Defensemen will Isles land?

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Old
07-04-2011, 03:18 PM
  #76
redbull
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Originally Posted by JPIsles21 View Post
We gave up 3 1st round picks for Smyth. That's a hefty price to pay for a player. Teams can't be making huge trades like that all the time without seriously damaging long-term outlook.
Three first rounders have a higher perceived value, potential value, than in reality. Too often, we focus on three first rounders that COULD HAVE been had rather than what reality often reveals.

Look at these teams and ten years of drafting in the 1st round (1997-2006 - to get a sample of players that should have matured to their NHL potential by now:

Take 1997 - 2006 (10 years) - 1st rounders

DET:
NONE, Kindl, NONE, NONE, NONE, NONE, Kronwall, NONE, Fischer, NONE
they hardly ever pick in the first round, but they tend to make them count somehow (on the player development side)
----
NJ:
Matt Corrente, Bergfors, Zajac, Parise, NONE, Adrian Foster, David Hale, Ari Ahonen, Mike Van Ryn, Scott Gomez, JF Damphousse.

besides Parise Gomez and Zajac, the team essentially went six straight years without a first round pick at all.
----
FLA: Frolik, McArdle, Olesz, Horton, A. Stewart, Bouwmeester, Taticek, Weiss, Kraijcek, NONE, Shvidki, NONE, Mike Brown

almost no difference makers, none with the team anymore. Team had multiple 1st rounders for several years.
----
NYR: Sanguinetti, M Staal, Montoya, Korpikoski, Jessiman, None, Blackburn, NONE, Brendl/Lundmark, Malhotra, Cherneski

Marc Staal the only player with any merit
----
PHIL: Giroux, Downie, NONE, Richards/Carter, Pitkanen, Woywitka, Justin Williams, Oulett, S. Gagne, NONE.

drafted well, 5-6 very good players in this group.

NYI (for comparison):

Okposo, O'Marra, Nokelainen, Nilsson, Bergenheim, NONE, DiPietro/Torres, Connolly/Pyatt/Mezei/Kudroc, Rupp, Brewer/Luongo

----

It's tough to pick any consecutive three first round picks or even four first round picks and think that it's so much of a price to pay. Take a guy like Steven Stamkos, I think he's EASILY worth 4 first rounders.

It's easy to look at Ryan Strome at 18 and see Joe Sakic or Steve Yzerman. It's wishful thinking. Pavel Brendl and Patrick Stefan are just as likely.

Quote:

I agree with this. If a fair deal is not to be had, Kaberle would be a good addition. He's slipped quite a bit over the last couple of years, but he's a better player than McCabe, and is the best dman left on the market. He's pretty slow, and rather soft, so not sure how bad his defense will be getting top minutes.
He HAS slipped over the past few years. He's looked really bored and uninterested in Toronto. Like most players, he hated Wilson, I'm sure that didn't help. In Boston, he was average. Less than what Boston hoped for but he was exactly the type of player I expected. He did the job though.

Kaberle's one of those guys that coaches/players wanted more from. If only he worked a little harder, cared a little more, he could be something special. Which isn't what he is.

But he doesn't need to play as hard as Freddy Meyer or be as solid as Nick Lidstrom to be a useful player for the NYI. If he just plays the way he can, the way he's played his whole career, he's a #2 guy on this team (until Hamonic surpasses him, and HOPEFULLY deHaan one day)

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07-04-2011, 03:51 PM
  #77
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I'm down in Maryland in Ocaen city. I've been talking hockey with my cousins and other people I have met. I can't believe how much Caps fans hate Green. EVERYONE wants him off the team and would trade him "for a bag of pucks". I was/am shocked how much they despise him. Is it me or would it be great to get him for just about anyone other that JT, Grabs, Okie, or Niño?

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Old
07-04-2011, 04:22 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Three first rounders have a higher perceived value, potential value, than in reality. Too often, we focus on three first rounders that COULD HAVE been had rather than what reality often reveals.
I don't disagree. I'd give up 4 1st round picks for Stamkos immediately. I'd also be ok with giving up 3-4 for Doughty. This is because these players are true impact players. They are both franchise players, and will automatically propel us into the playoffs, thus guaranteeing that most if not all 4 of those alleged 1st rounders will be in the 20s or later.

What I don't want the Isles to do is to trade valuable assets (Strome, Neiderreiter, de Haan, 1st round pick, etc) for anything less than a franchise-changing player.

You see demented trades all the time (1st and 2nd for Varlamov, offer sheets for guys like Penner, etc). These are poor asset management type moves. Most players in the league are replacable. Top 10 picks have a high likelihood of being the type of player you give up a few 1st rounders and top prospects for when they develop.

Generally, I'd much rather keep the prospect/pick that has the potential to be great, rather than trade them for a player in his prime that's deemed 'good.' Most names being thrown around for trade will not do as much for us in the short or long-term to be worth top prospects/picks. I'm glad Snow hasn't jumped on any of these "high-profile acquisitions."

I don't think we're at the point of our development as a franchise to be sacrificing top prospects for immediate help, unless it's a player of Doughty's or Stamkos' ilk. Just my opinion.

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07-04-2011, 04:30 PM
  #79
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With the Sabres newly-found depth on defense, one guy of particular interest to me is Marc-Andre Gragnani. He was dominant in the AHL last year. He's 24, 6-2 201 lbs, and had 7 points in 7 games for the Sabres in the playoffs. He's currently an RFA. Perhaps he can be had for a cheap price.

There are just too many quality options available to Snow in terms of dmen, for there not to be something done.

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07-04-2011, 04:45 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by JPIsles21 View Post
With the Sabres newly-found depth on defense, one guy of particular interest to me is Marc-Andre Gragnani. He was dominant in the AHL last year. He's 24, 6-2 201 lbs, and had 7 points in 7 games for the Sabres in the playoffs. He's currently an RFA. Perhaps he can be had for a cheap price.

There are just too many quality options available to Snow in terms of dmen, for there not to be something done.
I'd take Sekera off their hands. Gragnani was good with the puck in the offensive zone when he had it on his stick. In the defensive zone he was one of the worst in the playoffs....actually MAB bad. No thanks on MAG.

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07-04-2011, 05:37 PM
  #81
Chapin Landvogt
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Wouldnt Oliver Ekman Larsson be cheaper than Yandle or no? Plus he is young so he would fit in with your core players.
Who on earth has mentioned he could be had?

The guy is a young stud. I've seen absolutely nothing indicating Phoenix would want to part with him.

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07-04-2011, 05:44 PM
  #82
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Botta update.

Update 5:00 PM: For the Islanders fans who are wondering what the team is up to right now, Chris Botta tweeted this nugget out this afternoon:

"Isles GM Garth Snow still speaking with agents in search of 1 forward and 1 dman. Trade still most likely route for top D."


In other news, the Calgary Flames have re-signed defenseman Anton Babchuk to a two-year contract.

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2...gh-the-weeknd/

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:01 PM
  #83
JPIsles21
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Originally Posted by Goaljudge View Post
I'd take Sekera off their hands. Gragnani was good with the puck in the offensive zone when he had it on his stick. In the defensive zone he was one of the worst in the playoffs....actually MAB bad. No thanks on MAG.
Thanks for that. I didn't watch him play, but his production and age appeared impressive.

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07-04-2011, 08:24 PM
  #84
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hopefully we can sign kaberle....he didn't have a great playoffs but by no means was bad. I am pretty sure he wasn't on the ice for a goal against

I am wondering what type of forward snow would be looking to sign? top 6.

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07-04-2011, 09:03 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MTK View Post
hopefully we can sign kaberle....he didn't have a great playoffs but by no means was bad. I am pretty sure he wasn't on the ice for a goal against

I am wondering what type of forward snow would be looking to sign? top 6.
I definitely wouldnt mind Kaberle on a 2-3 yr deal. He is probably asking for more than the Isles are willing to pay. Not sure what the dollars would be, maybe around 5 per year? He wants a top 6 forward.

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07-04-2011, 09:45 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by IslesFanatic View Post
I definitely wouldnt mind Kaberle on a 2-3 yr deal. He is probably asking for more than the Isles are willing to pay. Not sure what the dollars would be, maybe around 5 per year? He wants a top 6 forward.
I think Kaberle for 2-3 years between 4 and 4.5 mill a year is fine. Also remember Jurcina, Mottau and Eaton are all in the last year of their deals so there is plenty of roster room for him the year after this one and the year after that.

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07-04-2011, 10:13 PM
  #87
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plz try to get Bouwmeester, I think he's the perfect catch for us:

1.Calgary doesn't really want him anymore
2.Perfect compliment to Streit (who is offense) since he is mostly defense

I don't think we would have to give up a lot to get him, and he has great potential, all he needs is a change of air

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07-04-2011, 10:18 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
plz try to get Bouwmeester, I think he's the perfect catch for us:

1.Calgary doesn't really want him anymore
2.Perfect compliment to Streit (who is offense) since he is mostly defense

I don't think we would have to give up a lot to get him, and he has great potential, all he needs is a change of air
This is who I really want snow to get. Problem though NTC. He would have to agree to come to isles. Don't know if he would do it

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07-04-2011, 10:19 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
plz try to get Bouwmeester, I think he's the perfect catch for us:

1.Calgary doesn't really want him anymore
Considering Calgary traded Phaneuf and Regehr in the past couple years I don't see them wanting to unload Bouwmeester. Seems like Calgary isn't in full tear down and rebuild mode yet and they need some NHL calibre defensemen

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07-05-2011, 04:47 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2010 View Post
Botta update.

Update 5:00 PM: For the Islanders fans who are wondering what the team is up to right now, Chris Botta tweeted this nugget out this afternoon:

"Isles GM Garth Snow still speaking with agents in search of 1 forward and 1 dman. Trade still most likely route for top D."


In other news, the Calgary Flames have re-signed defenseman Anton Babchuk to a two-year contract.

http://www.islanderspointblank.com/2...gh-the-weeknd/
If this is true that Snow is determined to add 1 forward (Nino will be back in juniors) and 1 defenseman through trade, then it is clear he sees the rebuild as done, and is committed to making a huge statement before the 8/1 vote that the team is a playoff contender.
If he gets the right pieces, impact playres rather than just hole fillers, we are back in the game. Yuor move Garth, just do not blow the future by dealing all our high rated prospects.

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07-05-2011, 08:10 AM
  #91
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The Babchuk signing effectively ends the thought of improving our top four through free agency. Kaberle probably being the best of the rest just did not look that good this past season. You're going to have to give to get, is Comeau a chip or core?

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07-05-2011, 09:18 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by *********** View Post
The Babchuk signing effectively ends the thought of improving our top four through free agency. Kaberle probably being the best of the rest just did not look that good this past season. You're going to have to give to get, is Comeau a chip or core?
I doubt they move Comeau but it is possible depending on who we deal with.
Comeau is an RFA with a qulaifying offer. He can play next year for $710,000, then he is a UFA. So for any team that trades for him, it is likely that they will want to sign him to an extention, which in his case means about $2.8-3.5MM market value.
If that team is moving their top 4 defender to relieve cap space/salary, a Comeau signing reverses the benefit.

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07-05-2011, 09:39 AM
  #93
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Kaberle is finished. He was disgusting for the Bruins, which is saying something considering they won the cup. His best performance was the Cup finals. Otherwise, my god. No, and I imagine he would have been signed by now if we had the interest.

Garth will have to consider these options if he's serious about upgrading:

Yandle (PHX)
Sakera (BUF)

These are my top 2 choices for upgrading the Top 4 in a serious manner.

The next tier would be:

Boumeester (CAL)
Leopold (CAL)

I don't see Boumeester being the answer. He makes close to 7 million, has eclipsed 50 points once in his career, and the whole "built like a gazelle" argument means nothing to me.

Which leaves us with internal upgrades. So, let's see what Garth is made of.

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07-05-2011, 10:12 AM
  #94
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Pretty much the wrong thread but reading Bottas latest tweet left me wondering what kind of forward we're looking for?

"Isles GM Garth Snow still speaking with agents in search of 1 forward and 1 dman. Trade still most likely route for top D."

Thought we were set on forwards for next season..

Set, by Isles means that is.

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07-05-2011, 11:47 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SthlmNYI View Post
Pretty much the wrong thread but reading Bottas latest tweet left me wondering what kind of forward we're looking for?

"Isles GM Garth Snow still speaking with agents in search of 1 forward and 1 dman. Trade still most likely route for top D."
I wouldn't read too much into this. I'm sure ALL the GMs are speading to ALL other GMs about 1 forward and 1 defenseman. We'll see what comes out of it but I wouldn't think too much of Botta's tweet whatsoever.



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Originally Posted by PatientlyWaiting View Post
Kaberle is finished. He was disgusting for the Bruins, which is saying something considering they won the cup. His best performance was the Cup finals. Otherwise, my god. No, and I imagine he would have been signed by now if we had the interest.
Kaberle's certainly not finished. The reason he's still unsigned is because he didn't play well in Boston. Isles realistically have a shot at Kaberle because of this, this is hardly a reclamation project. Wis for those dollars is insane - Kaberle is TEN TIMES the defenseman Wisniewski is and can be had for far less money.

He's no leader, he's not physical, he's not a game-changer but last time I checked, those defensemen are NOT AVAILABLE, even through trade, and typically cost a fortune in dollars AND assets.


Quote:
I don't see Boumeester being the answer. He makes close to 7 million, has eclipsed 50 points once in his career, and the whole "built like a gazelle" argument means nothing to me.

Which leaves us with internal upgrades. So, let's see what Garth is made of.
I'm not sure about Bouwmeester either but again, he's world class compared to what the Isles have. Another case of taking on a guy who's lost his luster a bit, in the eyes of some, but is young enough, talented enough and experienced enough that he can certainly turn it around.

In the end, at their WORST, both Bouwmester AND Kaberle would be right there with Streit as big minute players and would significantly improve the NYI game. The drastically improve the puck-movement, first pass, transition game and benefit both sides of the puck. Isles have always needed a defenseman to move the puck out of the zone and make a pass, rater than be scored on, forced into a penalty, having to continually block shots and get hurt or, at best, take an icing so ZK needs to win a faceoff, only to hurt the team on the ice after the faceoff win.

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07-05-2011, 11:48 AM
  #96
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We're not getting a top-4 defensemen. I think we'll get McCabe at best. As for a #1 forward? No way.

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07-05-2011, 11:57 AM
  #97
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We're not getting a top-4 defensemen. I think we'll get McCabe at best. As for a #1 forward? No way.
Careful....they didn't say what league he was a top four in.

Garth is smart. No worries.

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07-05-2011, 12:03 PM
  #98
OhNoItsComeau57
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In the end, at their WORST, both Bouwmester AND Kaberle would be right there with Streit as big minute players and would significantly improve the NYI game. The drastically improve the puck-movement, first pass, transition game and benefit both sides of the puck. Isles have always needed a defenseman to move the puck out of the zone and make a pass, rater than be scored on, forced into a penalty, having to continually block shots and get hurt or, at best, take an icing so ZK needs to win a faceoff, only to hurt the team on the ice after the faceoff win.
This is a very good point. As I pointed out in the FA thread, I would take Kaberle for 2-3 years between 4-4.5/per. He wasn't great last year but I think at worst hes the 4th best dman on the team and if he turns it arounf could be #2, possibly even #1 if streit is rusty and TK takes off. 2-3 years to me is fine for a guy like him. Jurcina, Eaton and Mottau all are UFAs next year so we have roster flexibility.

J-Bo is an interesting case. I would def think long and hard about getting him (provided that the cost is low due to eating that contract). I have 2 big concerns with him. First is he seems to have gotten worse in Calgary the last 2 years. Getting worse on a better team def gives me pause. The second, and to me most troubling, is locker room fit. I'm pretty sure I've read that he has a very introverted personality. If you ever watch an interview with him it does nothing to dispel that notion. I would worry about him fitting in with the current chemistry which seems to be very good. Hope this is much ado about nada but he seems like kind of a weirdo.

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07-05-2011, 04:35 PM
  #99
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As per Darren Dreger

-Tomas Kaberle agrees to 3 yr, $12.75 deal with Carolina!! Done.

also as per Andy Strickland

-Phoenix Re-signs D-man Keith Yandle to a 5 year $26.25 Million contract...Done #Coyotes

well there goes those ideas

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07-05-2011, 05:08 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by islesfan1821 View Post
As per Darren Dreger

-Tomas Kaberle agrees to 3 yr, $12.75 deal with Carolina!! Done.

also as per Andy Strickland

-Phoenix Re-signs D-man Keith Yandle to a 5 year $26.25 Million contract...Done #Coyotes

well there goes those ideas
But Yandle does not have a NTC

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