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Emelin and Diaz: Are they good enough to make up for the loss of Hamrlik

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12-05-2011, 07:07 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Gauthier didn't just "let him go". He was made a solid 1 year offer and decided to hit the UFA market looking for 2 years. Gauthier turned around and got a good deal on Campoli who has more left in the tank. You can't blame Gauthier for the fact that Campoli got hurt in the 1st game of the year, a freak injury to boot.
Campoli is no Hamrlik though. Campoli is good to fill in for a temp #4 role, but ideally he is a great #5.

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12-05-2011, 08:00 AM
  #152
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Gauthier didn't just "let him go". He was made a solid 1 year offer and decided to hit the UFA market looking for 2 years. Gauthier turned around and got a good deal on Campoli who has more left in the tank. You can't blame Gauthier for the fact that Campoli got hurt in the 1st game of the year, a freak injury to boot.
You evidently have some inside info. What was the exact number offered? But it doesn't matter because Washington's offer was more SOLID and the three year term offered by another team was more SOLID.

Can't blame Gauthier for injuries? I don't blame him for injuries just not being prepared. Sure..........the Habs have no history of losing d-men early in the season for the last three seasons. Markov, Gill, Mara and O'Byrne way back when then followed the next year by Markov and Gorges. Spacek has been in and out of the lineup since being a Hab.

Seriously..........make a list of Habs d-men missing substantial time in the last four seasons and there is no reason for not grabbing a solid top four d-man knocking on the door. It's not like he was asking the world.

Somebody addressed Campoli already but I'll add he's a d-man who possibly has played four complete seasons and a couple of partials. He's on his fourth team. I would think if he'd be legit top four somebody would have latched onto him long term.

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12-05-2011, 08:05 AM
  #153
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Gauthier offered him same money on 1y. Hamrlik wanted two. Gauthier refused. Make your research, Hamrlik said it.

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12-05-2011, 08:11 AM
  #154
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And how the **** arent we prepared? Were probably the team who had the more depth at D : markon, subban, gorges, spacek, campoli, emelin, gill, diaz, weber, woywitka, st-denis, Nash.

How many team have that much of dman at beginning of the season?

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12-05-2011, 08:12 AM
  #155
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Gauthier offered him same money on 1y. Hamrlik wanted two. Gauthier refused. Make your research, Hamrlik said it.
Tired of the research crap. Someone tell Gauthier to do some research and make a list of d-men injured the last four or five seasons. Then maybe make a list league wide.

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12-05-2011, 08:18 AM
  #156
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Seriously..........make a list of Habs d-men missing substantial time in the last four seasons and there is no reason for not grabbing a solid top four d-man knocking on the door. It's not like he was asking the world.
If Hamrlik was playing in Montreal and had the same kind of statistics he has in Washington, I bet you'd be the first to ask for him to be waived.

Even Hal Gill has more points than Hamrlik this year.

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12-05-2011, 08:30 AM
  #157
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If Hamrlik was playing in Montreal and had the same kind of statistics he has in Washington, I bet you'd be the first to ask for him to be waived.

Even Hal Gill has more points than Hamrlik this year.
I kinda addressed that in another post. Nobody knows how he would have played for the Habs. What we do know is that he did a heckuva job filling in for Markov and numerous others the last few years.

And speaking of research - there are some metrics and other data that says he hasn't been as bad as fans make him out to be - kinda like Montreal. Boudreau shuffled goalies, forwards and d-men quicker than a washing machine scrambles clothes. All were struggling. For instance their PP is a atrocious. But it isn't because of Hamrlik.

Washington's blueline Corsi and Fenwick numbers are actually better than last year. The goaltenders have been collanders. Hamrlik hasn't been mistake free but his teammates haven't been either.

Your if is a big unknown.

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12-05-2011, 09:21 AM
  #158
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Emelin - yes.
Diaz - no.

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12-05-2011, 10:51 AM
  #159
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Emelin is becoming a beast, the man hits everything...just what we need....Diaz, should go down to Hamilton, with Gomez...

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12-05-2011, 11:01 AM
  #160
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Emelin is becoming a beast, the man hits everything...just what we need....Diaz, should go down to Hamilton, with Gomez...
Diaz played 27 and 24 minutes in the last two games he can't go to hamilton he is needed.

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12-05-2011, 11:07 AM
  #161
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I still don't get the hate for Diaz. If anyone should go to Hamilton it should be Weber and St.denis. Weber's lucky he'd have to pass through waivers(he does right) because his play has been awful.

Next to sit should be Gill.

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12-05-2011, 11:20 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Railman View Post
If Hamrlik was playing in Montreal and had the same kind of statistics he has in Washington, I bet you'd be the first to ask for him to be waived.

Even Hal Gill has more points than Hamrlik this year.
Who cares about how he's doing in Washington. Are people still holding on to Cole not being to play without Staal because he struggled in Edmonton?

We saw enough of Hammer here to know that he can provide good depth in case of injuries. I don't care how much one hates him, if you can't recognize that he was useful to us, than you really shouldn't debate much about him.
Btw, Hammer was/is injured.

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12-05-2011, 11:29 AM
  #163
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Diaz played 27 and 24 minutes in the last two games he can't go to hamilton he is needed.
In JM's strange world !

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12-05-2011, 11:32 AM
  #164
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We could do a heck of a lot worse than having Diaz and Emelin as our bottom pairing.

Lets say Campoli and Spacek are back in two weeks.

Gorges-Subban
Campoli-Spacek
Diaz-Emelin
Gill

Dress 7 D and play Gill mostly on the PK?

I liked Weber's first dozen games or so but he's struggled for about a month now. Yes, I'd consider trading him instead of him being a healthy scratch for the rest of the year.

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12-05-2011, 11:38 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Who cares about how he's doing in Washington. Are people still holding on to Cole not being to play without Staal because he struggled in Edmonton?

We saw enough of Hammer here to know that he can provide good depth in case of injuries. I don't care how much one hates him, if you can't recognize that he was useful to us, than you really shouldn't debate much about him.
Btw, Hammer was/is injured.
There's nothing wrong with being able to recognize that, although he was useful to us, it appears he's outlived his usefulness and has been adequately replaced by two younger, cheaper defensemen. His stats are horrible in WSH, the fans can't stand him, and he's been a healthy scratch. I'm not exactly sure what point you're arguing.

I was a big fan of Hamrlik for most of his tenure here and I thought he got a raw deal from the fans too much of the time. But I think we absolutely made the right move to let him go when we did, and everything we've seen on the ice so far bears that out.

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12-05-2011, 11:48 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
There's nothing wrong with being able to recognize that, although he was useful to us, it appears he's outlived his usefulness and has been adequately replaced by two younger, cheaper defensemen. His stats are horrible in WSH, the fans can't stand him, and he's been a healthy scratch. I'm not exactly sure what point you're arguing.

I was a big fan of Hamrlik for most of his tenure here and I thought he got a raw deal from the fans too much of the time. But I think we absolutely made the right move to let him go when we did, and everything we've seen on the ice so far bears that out.
Yes, there's nothing wrong with recognizing that he's outlived his usefulness. But considering he was very useful to us last year, to the point where he earned the Jacques Beauchamp-Molson trophy (no matter how unimportant, it's still a form of recognition), I have a hard time believing he's just become so bad that he needs to be scratched.
Fans hate him...I'm not sure I have to say this to you, but are you forgetting the way our own fans react after 1 good or bad game?? Habs fans are not the only bi-polar ones. But even if he is indeed crap in Washington, doesn't mean he would have been here. If you look at last year's performance, than there's no reason to believe he would have been.

Also, the day after he was supposedly a ''healthy'' scratch, the Caps said he was injured.

I'm not suggesting we keep Hammer over Emelin. If you wanted to replace him, then okay, no problem as long as you sign a veteran. But if it's to keep Gill, then I'm sorry, I cannot agree.

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12-05-2011, 11:52 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
There's nothing wrong with being able to recognize that, although he was useful to us, it appears he's outlived his usefulness and has been adequately replaced by two younger, cheaper defensemen. His stats are horrible in WSH, the fans can't stand him, and he's been a healthy scratch. I'm not exactly sure what point you're arguing.

I was a big fan of Hamrlik for most of his tenure here and I thought he got a raw deal from the fans too much of the time. But I think we absolutely made the right move to let him go when we did, and everything we've seen on the ice so far bears that out.
He's injured and Washington has more problems than Hamrlik. Look at their goaltending while stats prove the blueliners are doing a better job than last year. Look at Ovechkin's stats. Look at Semin. Look at their powerplay. We'll see how Hamrlik fairs under Hunter. His only game under Hunter was solid.

So you judge a player on how the fans feel. If so then you should have hated Hamrlik in Montreal too and thought he was lousy. LOL

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12-05-2011, 12:06 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, there's nothing wrong with recognizing that he's outlived his usefulness. But considering he was very useful to us last year, to the point where he earned the Jacques Beauchamp-Molson trophy (no matter how unimportant, it's still a form of recognition), I have a hard time believing he's just become so bad that he needs to be scratched.
Fans hate him...I'm not sure I have to say this to you, but are you forgetting the way our own fans react after 1 good or bad game?? Habs fans are not the only bi-polar ones. But even if he is indeed crap in Washington, doesn't mean he would have been here. If you look at last year's performance, than there's no reason to believe he would have been.

Also, the day after he was supposedly a ''healthy'' scratch, the Caps said he was injured.

I'm not suggesting we keep Hammer over Emelin. If you wanted to replace him, then okay, no problem as long as you sign a veteran. But if it's to keep Gill, then I'm sorry, I cannot agree.
You're comparing "what would Hamrlik have been in Montreal this year" vs. "what Hamrlik currently is with Washington" and rejecting the evidence of the latter to focus on the speculation of the former. Why? Obviously I don't know how Hamrlik would have done another two years in Montreal, nobody knows. All I know is what's plain for anyone to see - Hamrlik has not had a good year so far, and Emelin and Diaz are proving themselves to be adequate replacements. So what possible reason do I have to wish we had Hamrlik instead?

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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
He's injured and Washington has more problems than Hamrlik. Look at their goaltending while stats prove the blueliners are doing a better job than last year. Look at Ovechkin's stats. Look at Semin. Look at their powerplay. We'll see how Hamrlik fairs under Hunter. His only game under Hunter was solid.

So you judge a player on how the fans feel. If so then you should have hated Hamrlik in Montreal too and thought he was lousy. LOL
I don't judge a player on how the fans feel, but I take it into consideration. I don't know how many more examples I can find - the fans don't like him, he's been in Boudreau's doghouse (if he wasn't a healthy scratch, that's fair, but he's been benched before), has 1 point in 23 games, is a -10...so why continue to speculate on what he'd be doing if he were here?

Maybe he hasn't been as bad as everything I pointed out, but has he been good enough to warrant a 2-year deal at 3.5m per and a roster spot over Diaz or Emelin? I don't think the trade-off is that great.

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12-05-2011, 12:12 PM
  #169
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You're comparing "what would Hamrlik have been in Montreal this year" vs. "what Hamrlik currently is with Washington" and rejecting the evidence of the latter to focus on the speculation of the former. Why? Obviously I don't know how Hamrlik would have done another two years in Montreal, nobody knows. All I know is what's plain for anyone to see - Hamrlik has not had a good year so far, and Emelin and Diaz are proving themselves to be adequate replacements. So what possible reason do I have to wish we had Hamrlik instead?
Yup, good point.

As for Hamr vs. Emelin... I don't really care. What I care about is that we're playing some younger blueliners and hopefully they can help us out down the road. We're not going anywhere this season anyway.

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12-05-2011, 12:24 PM
  #170
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You're comparing "what would Hamrlik have been in Montreal this year" vs. "what Hamrlik currently is with Washington" and rejecting the evidence of the latter to focus on the speculation of the former. Why? Obviously I don't know how Hamrlik would have done another two years in Montreal, nobody knows. All I know is what's plain for anyone to see - Hamrlik has not had a good year so far, and Emelin and Diaz are proving themselves to be adequate replacements. So what possible reason do I have to wish we had Hamrlik instead?



I don't judge a player on how the fans feel, but I take it into consideration. I don't know how many more examples I can find - the fans don't like him, he's been in Boudreau's doghouse (if he wasn't a healthy scratch, that's fair, but he's been benched before), has 1 point in 23 games, is a -10...so why continue to speculate on what he'd be doing if he were here?

Maybe he hasn't been as bad as everything I pointed out, but has he been good enough to warrant a 2-year deal at 3.5m per and a roster spot over Diaz or Emelin? I don't think the trade-off is that great.
A list of players that have been in Boudreau's doghouse...........

Ovechkin
Vokoun
Semin
Halpern
Ward
Neuvirth
Schultz
Carlson
Hamrlik
Johansson
Brouwer

And guess who is without a job - Boudreau.

I'll point out the goaltending again for you. The Caps have a game in Florida tonight. Vokoun's family would be there. Vokoun ain't starting. He's been a slow starter on his career and this year is no different.

You don't judge the player but take into consideration fan sentiment. Okay............ I kinda like stats and what I see on the ice. He's made mistakes but like I said his teammates haven't been too helpful either.

Hamrlik would have been a much better choice than Hal Gill. And the young ones would still be getting their chance. Hamrlik 3.1 vs. Gill at 2.25. Even for two years I'd a taken Hamr because there will be unknowns for next year. Will Markov ever recover? Will Gorges walk? Well the Habs can always re-sign Hal Gill again. Yea!

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12-05-2011, 12:25 PM
  #171
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funny that some are still in denial

apparently consecutive crappy playoff performances and now a bad start to the season is not enough proof that the guy is finished

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12-05-2011, 12:27 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
A list of players that have been in Boudreau's doghouse...........

Ovechkin
Vokoun
Semin
Halpern
Ward
Neuvirth
Schultz
Carlson
Hamrlik
Johansson
Brouwer

And guess who is without a job - Boudreau.

I'll point out the goaltending again for you. The Caps have a game in Florida tonight. Vokoun's family would be there. Vokoun ain't starting. He's been a slow starter on his career and this year is no different.

You don't judge the player but take into consideration fan sentiment. Okay............ I kinda like stats and what I see on the ice. He's made mistakes but like I said his teammates haven't been too helpful either.

Hamrlik would have been a much better choice than Hal Gill. And the young ones would still be getting their chance. Hamrlik 3.1 vs. Gill at 2.25. Even for two years I'd a taken Hamr because there will be unknowns for next year. Will Markov ever recover? Will Gorges walk? Well the Habs can always re-sign Hal Gill again. Yea!
Yeah, do you know why Boudreau's out of a job? Ever heard the expression "you can't fire 25 guys so you can't fire the coach"?

I've pointed out my reasons why I think pining over the loss of Hamrlik is futile at best. You have yours to the contrary. Agree to disagree. I do have to wonder why some people give so much more rope to non-Habs than they do to the players who are actually on the team.

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12-05-2011, 12:30 PM
  #173
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You're comparing "what would Hamrlik have been in Montreal this year" vs. "what Hamrlik currently is with Washington" and rejecting the evidence of the latter to focus on the speculation of the former. Why? Obviously I don't know how Hamrlik would have done another two years in Montreal, nobody knows. All I know is what's plain for anyone to see - Hamrlik has not had a good year so far, and Emelin and Diaz are proving themselves to be adequate replacements. So what possible reason do I have to wish we had Hamrlik instead?
First of all, I'm talking about signing Hammer over Gill.
Second, nor Diaz or Emelin are used in the same manner as Hammer was.
Third, a lot of players in Washington are under performing, including superstars like Ovechkin and Semin.
Fourth, on November 12th, he left the game due to an upper body injury. Before that, he was mainly used between 24-18min. Upon his return, that total decreased, up until he was a ''healthy'' scratched and the next day, was said to be injured.
Fifth, they just fired their coach, which proves, things were probably difficult over there.

Yes, he's not having a good year. Like many other good players throughout the NHL, including some on our very own team.

With hindsight, knowing we'd be playing for the better part of the first third of the year with our #7-8-9-10 Dmen as regulars, then yea, Hammer would have been useful to us.
Even without hindsight, people were saying that it's important to have a solid veteran player that could step in if ever Markov needed extra time off. Hammer provided that depth.
Diaz and Emelin are playing well considering they have no experience. But are they playing as well as Hammer was playing for us last year? Absolutely not.

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12-05-2011, 12:31 PM
  #174
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Personally, I'm glad this is why the GM is sometimes the one making the decisions. I may not agree with everything he does, but refusing to give Hamrlik extra years was a very good decision. I supported it 100%.

Was Hamrlik better than Gill? Yes. But at that age, term is everything. You can't saddle the team with another relatively pricey over-35 contract that keeps your young guys in the press box or AHL.

Did Gauthier want Hamrlik as insurance this year? Yes. Did he recognize his value as a mentor, PK guy and minute-eater? Yes. Did he learn from past lessons that giving 37 year old players multi-year deals is death? Yes.

Hamrlik was consistently dropping off in play as seasons progressed. Sure he had some good play in the playoffs, but he still dropped off noticeably post-All-Star break. This team has to stop committing beyond 1 season to these bubble vets. And I'm glad they did.

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12-05-2011, 12:32 PM
  #175
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Both Diaz and Emelin are great players....but Hamrlik was a solid rock on the Habs blueline for 4 years. He put up 30 pts every season and had a very respectable +/- rating as well. He solidified the Habs blueline in the Souray era where defence meant nothing....and Hamrlik gave us a dependable defenceman capable of putting up a few points and making safe, smart plays in his own end.

I would still rather have Hamrlik than Gill. I hope Diaz and Emelin are able to develop into reliable defencemen.

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