Red Wings are big and strong. We're small and soft.
How about that?
What?
Where?
Big and Strong do not describe the Red Wings in the slightest.
Pavel Datsyuk
Nicklas Lidstrom
Henrik Zetterberg
Valtteri Filppula
Tomas Holmstrom
Todd Bertuzzi
Danny Cleary
Niklas Kronwall
Darren Helm
Patrick Eaves
Brian Rafalski
Jiri Hudler
Jonathan Ericsson
Johan Franzen
Brad Stuart
Drew Miller
Kris Draper
Mike Modano
Ruslan Salei
Justin Abdelkader
Big and Strong do not describe the Red Wings in the slightest.
Pavel Datsyuk
Nicklas Lidstrom
Henrik Zetterberg
Valtteri Filppula
Tomas Holmstrom
Todd Bertuzzi
Danny Cleary
Niklas Kronwall
Darren Helm
Patrick Eaves
Brian Rafalski
Jiri Hudler
Jonathan Ericsson
Johan Franzen
Brad Stuart
Drew Miller
Kris Draper
Mike Modano
Ruslan Salei
Justin Abdelkader
This is such an intimidating Roster!
I think he was joking but just to respond.
I don't think comparing them to MTL is fair since they have 2 of the best forwards around possibly the best defenceman of all time on their roster.
You seem to have a pretty good grasp of hockey's X's and O's. It appears that the game of hockey to you is basically black and white.
But for a second, let go of all of your immense hockey knowledge and think outside of the box and use a little common sense.
Here goes.........The Habs tough guy who can fight but resides on the 4th line and plays less than 10 minutes a game is sitting on the bench as Lucic (top line for the Bruins) again crosschecks Carey Price down to the ice. Our top line is on the ice so Pleks Cammy Cole simply gather around and nothing happens.
In your mind, we would now have to put the 4th line on the ice whenever Lucic's line comes out........which would be dumb.
But has it ever crossed your super intelligent hockey mind that all you need to do the next time Lucic comes back on the ice is to pull ONE forward off the ice and insert your tough guy who skates right up to Lucic, drops the gloves and sends a message that Price is off limits.
Or you can simply tuck tail and keep reinforcing the fact that the Canadiens do not stand up for each other.
do you watch hockey in past couple years? Luicic rarly drops the gloves, ESPECIALLY not against a 4th line thug that was sent out for a message. lol wtf kind of example is that, worse example possible. There are no coaches who will do something like that, you just take a penalty and other team laughs. repeat. ISL brawls last year happened for no other reason because ISL suck, no one goes and watches the games. They will take the loss, and the fines, just because its a beneficial risk, just to get people to watch them joke of a team. Ottw will do the same this year, that's all they have left to entertain crowds while they tank and draft talent.
Also you black and white example is actually a projection of how you view the game if you have yet to realize. Because your main and only argument is that if there is foul play/violent act/intimidation you fight back with same thing, and you (and others) seem to not grasp, that that's not the only solution, especially when your faced with the reality that hockey has changed, and violence is being slowly kept in check and eliminated. I did not make this happen, its a natural evolution of the game.
Plus they also have 3 good power forwards in Holmstrom, Bertuzzi and Franzen.
Sure, but if you're using them as definitions of powerforwards then so do the Canadiens in Pacioretty, Cole and Andrei Kostitsyn.
Holmstrom stands in front of the goalie, but he's not a vicious player not is a fighter, nor does he protect his players.
Franzen is more of a skill player who uses his body. He does hit, but is no more physical(in the fighting sense) than Cole.
Bertuzzi is the only real guy who has a mean-streak out of those players, but his offensive production has slowed down immensely. Having Bertuzzi doesn't make the Red Wings intimidating. Being a great team does.
Like I said, if you are gonna use Holmstrom, Franzen and Bertuzzi as definitions of powerforward, then you may as well include Andrei Kostitsyn, Pacioretty and Cole.
Sure, but if you're using them as definitions of powerforwards then so do the Canadiens in Pacioretty, Cole and Andrei Kostitsyn.
Holmstrom stands in front of the goalie, but he's not a vicious player not is a fighter, nor does he protect his players.
Franzen is more of a skill player who uses his body. He does hit, but is no more physical(in the fighting sense) than Cole.
Bertuzzi is the only real guy who has a mean-streak out of those players, but his offensive production has slowed down immensely. Having Bertuzzi doesn't make the Red Wings intimidating. Being a great team does.
Like I said, if you are gonna use Holmstrom, Franzen and Bertuzzi as definitions of powerforward, then you may as well include Andrei Kostitsyn, Pacioretty and Cole.
Aside Cole that never played for the Habs so far (maybe he will get softer with the Habs jersey on...), you cannot compare A.K and Max Pac to real grown men like the three Red Wings big guys. Don't forget foot soldiers like Abdelbaker, Kronwall, Stuart. Even Datzyuk and Zetterberg are real machines scared of no one.
Aside Cole that never played for the Habs so far (maybe he will get softer with the Habs jersey on...), you cannot compare A.K and Max Pac to real grown men like the three Red Wings big guys. Don't forget foot soldiers like Abdelbaker, Kronwall, Stuart. Even Datzyuk and Zetterberg are real machines scared of no one.
We're not talking about players who are not scared. Your post screams of the classic "grass is greener elsewhere" mentality. I have never seen Gomez, Gionta or Cammalleri back down from anyone.
White, Moen and Subban are as much "foot soldiers" as Abdelkader, Kronwall and Stuart are.
Holmstrom has zero mean-streak. He is great at using his size to protect the puck and shield the goalie, but he isn't a bruiser.
Cole had the 13th most hits as a forward in the nhl last season. He fits nitanny's definition. Pacioretty is also pretty physical as well and doesn't back down from anyone.
Like I said, your post screams of the classic "grass is greener elsewhere" mentality.
For a lot of Canadiens fans, a first round exit in the playoffs is a raging successful season.
Nobody ever said that. The evaluation of a team's performance over a season isn't limited to where it ended in the standing and how far we went in the POs. Two years ago we went to the ECF, but our team wasn't playing well. They weren't well structured. This wasn't because our players or Martin sucked, it's because we had a ton of injuries, a new coach with a complete 180 degree change from the previous one, and half of a new team. It's no surprise we had problems with chemistry and playing within a structure system.
Last season, the team improved tremendously regarding structure but we still battled through injuries which halted our success.
Look at St-louis, they were sure to make the POs, but suffered tons of injuries and had a disappointing season. Doesn't mean they'll blow up the team and start from scratch.
Our team only went to the 1st round but giving the circumstances and the way we battled it was a good run.
Overall we have a pretty good team with great potential if healthier.
But has it ever crossed your super intelligent hockey mind that all you need to do the next time Lucic comes back on the ice is to pull ONE forward off the ice and insert your tough guy who skates right up to Lucic, drops the gloves and sends a message that Price is off limits.
Yeah that's an amazing idea. Wait, what happens when Lucic rightly declines to fight your tough guy scrub and then Chara et al bear hug him before he can land a punch until the referees can escort him to the penalty box? What's plan b?
Yeah that's an amazing idea. Wait, what happens when Lucic rightly declines to fight your tough guy scrub and then Chara et al bear hug him before he can land a punch until the referees can escort him to the penalty box? What's plan b?
Plan B for him would be to get another tough guy. However in his mind plan A is FLAWLESS.
And once you take him off that line Lucic will go back and do it again, that's what happened when the instigator rule was implemented...you cannot jump a player without hurting your team.
Konopka wouldn't change a thing and it's naive to think that one fighter who can do nothing else but fight and win faceoffs(Konopka isn't good at anything else including the defensive side of the game) will keep teams honest even when he is on the bench. And it's not just Lucic he's gonna have to stop, it's also Thornton, Chara and Horton.
The Canadiens are not going to re haul their entire team because its fans are insecure when they play the Bruins.
Also, once Konopka is in the box what stops the rest of the goons on the ice from acting the way they do? Nothing.
Lastly, your childish remarks add nothing to discussion and is probably a reason why posters on this board takes you seriously aside from a handful.
For the last time, Konopka is not ever going to be in Montreal. Why do keep bringing up his name?
You pacifists amaze me. Watch this video a couple of times.
In it you will see Lucic crosscheck Price down to the ice. And what happens to Lucic? Nothing. You know what that means? Lucic will do it again and again.
And what would you say if Carey Price, arguably the best player on the team, were hurt on a play like that? Would you advocate calling 911 like the Bruins love to mock the Canadiens with?
As long as the Canadiens turn the other cheek and avoid having a tough guy who can fight (Rupp would have been ideal but Gauthier thinks otherwise), we will see more videos like this.
What is worth more to you? Having a star player hurt by an idiot like Lucic? Or fretting about a 2 minute minor for instigating a fight to defend Carey Price?
Your side has been winning over the last 11 years. We were once a tough team but Boivin has effectively neutered the Canadiens and turned a once proud and tough franchise into the whipping boys of the NHL.
For the last time, Konopka is not ever going to be in Montreal. Why do keep bringing up his name?
Using him as an example. Sorry it's not obvious enough for you.
Quote:
You pacifists amaze me. Watch this video a couple of times.
There is a difference between being a pacifist and not wanting pluggers. I said it a thousand times that I wouldn't mind tough players who can actually play hockey.
Quote:
In it you will see Lucic crosscheck Price down to the ice. And what happens to Lucic? Nothing. You know what that means? Lucic will do it again and again.
And what would you say if Carey Price, arguably the best player on the team, were hurt on a play like that? Would you advocate calling 911 like the Bruins love to mock the Canadiens with?
As long as the Canadiens turn the other cheek and avoid having a tough guy who can fight (Rupp would have been ideal but Gauthier thinks otherwise), we will see more videos like this.
What is worth more to you? Having a star player hurt by an idiot like Lucic? Or fretting about a 2 minute minor for instigating a fight to defend Carey Price?
Your side has been winning over the last 11 years. We were once a tough team but Boivin has effectively neutered the Canadiens and turned a once proud and tough franchise into the whipping boys of the NHL.
Signing one tough player will not change this. Players do this all the time regardless of there being tough players on opposing teams. The habs do this all the time as well.
As far as the rest of the post, I'm not gonna waste my time since it's all over the place, but I"ll make a couple of comments.
Boivin is not the GM so I don't see how it was his decision in making the team "Pacifist". Also your argument is a poor one because the Canadiens have had multiple fighters during his tenure.
Also Boivin is no longer with the team.
Lastly, where did you get this info that Gauthier didn't want Rupp? Show me your sources or this pure speculation?
In it you will see Lucic crosscheck Price down to the ice. And what happens to Lucic? Nothing. You know what that means? Lucic will do it again and again.
And what would you say if Carey Price, arguably the best player on the team, were hurt on a play like that? Would you advocate calling 911 like the Bruins love to mock the Canadiens with?
As long as the Canadiens turn the other cheek and avoid having a tough guy who can fight (Rupp would have been ideal but Gauthier thinks otherwise), we will see more videos like this.
What is worth more to you? Having a star player hurt by an idiot like Lucic? Or fretting about a 2 minute minor for instigating a fight to defend Carey Price?
Your side has been winning over the last 11 years. We were once a tough team but Boivin has effectively neutered the Canadiens and turned a once proud and tough franchise into the whipping boys of the NHL.
What's really funny is that the last guy Lucic injured on our team was our tough aggressive boy that fought him, Komisarek.
You can enjoy toughness, it's all good, but don't pretend that it's the difference between Habs winning and losing.
In it you will see Lucic crosscheck Price down to the ice. And what happens to Lucic? Nothing. You know what that means? Lucic will do it again and again.
And what would you say if Carey Price, arguably the best player on the team, were hurt on a play like that? Would you advocate calling 911 like the Bruins love to mock the Canadiens with?
As long as the Canadiens turn the other cheek and avoid having a tough guy who can fight (Rupp would have been ideal but Gauthier thinks otherwise), we will see more videos like this.
What is worth more to you? Having a star player hurt by an idiot like Lucic? Or fretting about a 2 minute minor for instigating a fight to defend Carey Price?
Your side has been winning over the last 11 years. We were once a tough team but Boivin has effectively neutered the Canadiens and turned a once proud and tough franchise into the whipping boys of the NHL.
hey look, youve said the same thing 60 times, never responded to a post, never brought anything new. No wonder you see hockey the way you do, probably the world. Can't change, or more precisely afraid of change. But yea, im just a pacifist, thats "winning" the battle
In it you will see Lucic crosscheck Price down to the ice. And what happens to Lucic? Nothing. You know what that means? Lucic will do it again and again.
Um, I see Lucic get bumped by Subban, cross checked twice by Price and then once by Subban before throwing a retalitory cross check of his own. Boston must be pacifists as well as they didn't send out a goon next shift to beat up Price and Subban....
The above statement begs to ask the question: "how do the red wings do it?"
any thoughts?
I think Holland is seeing what it takes to get back to winning the Cup. They signed a "plugger" defenseman named Garnet Exelby for one reason. He can fight.
And if you notice, the Red Wings have not won a cup since the 07-08 season. And during that season, the Red Wings had Aaron Downey and Dallas Drake and had 21 fighting majors. This past season, they only had 13 fighting majors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uiCk
hey look, youve said the same thing 60 times, never responded to a post, never brought anything new. No wonder you see hockey the way you do, probably the world. Can't change, or more precisely afraid of change. But yea, im just a pacifist, thats "winning" the battle
This is a thread titled "Protector?". I am trying to stay on topic.
And yes, I do see the world the same way as hockey. If you come up to me or anyone in my family and start some ****, I am not going to turn the other cheek and run away. Its called self-respect.
That has nothing to do with change or fear of it. That is ridiculous. In hockey, a violent game, or in life, which can be violent at times, you have a choice. You can stand up and fight or you can go through life as someone's ***** and *****.
Boivin, Gauthier and Martin prefer the ***** way of hockey...at the expense of seeing their players get run or beat up like Hamrlik, Spacek and Pyatt.
Get ready for another year of seeing our players get pounded and only one person willing to stand up and fight. Great times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E
What's really funny is that the last guy Lucic injured on our team was our tough aggressive boy that fought him, Komisarek.
You can enjoy toughness, it's all good, but don't pretend that it's the difference between Habs winning and losing.
Wow. Komi got hurt so we should never have someone with toughness on the team again. Pacifism (*****) 101 on display.
Pretend? I like how you try to take the morally superior ground by calling my opinion regarding team toughness "pretending".
I guess there's something I'm not getting. Most people in here would have liked to get Kenopka, or Winchester or Rupp. I'd say at least 90%...isn't it? Yet, when we don't get those guys....you read how they were unuseful to begin with and that we don't need those pluggers....Question is...do we not need them because Gauthier told us so? Or did you never want them to begin with? Just to be sure who is who here. 'Cause it is possible that the ones who don't want them now are the same ones that didn't want them to begin with. Problem is that I don't believe everybody is consequent and that they NOW feel they are not needed because Gauthier decided to....But if you wanted those guys before....it surely wasn't to play fancy hockey. Then, you acknowledge the need of getting bigger and grittier which then has to dissapoint you if we don't go in that direction.
I personnally don't feel that the 8-6 loss against Boston the only instance where Habs players were getting laughed at, challenged and never did anything about it. I've never seen so much taunting towards the bench and we decided to turn the other cheek. Does it means more wins if we get a Rupp that would knock down a Thornton? Maybe not....but maybe it gives you a certain momentum during a game that you can turn a game around. But let say it doesn't.....where's that proudness to be a Habs? Where's that attitude that you will not laugh at me and certainly not in my building and in front of my fans? Doesn't that count for a little something? For whoever keeps saying now that they don't get how people are getting all worked up over 4th liners and that we don't need those goons....please tell me that you will ABSOLUTELY be OUTRAGED the day where one of this goon would have pounded another tough guy?
Personnally, and it's not towards everybody 'cause I know that some posters are totally consequent, I strongly believe that some are just getting their opinion in sync with what the management is doing. Who here would have been disgusted by a Rupp or a Kenopka acquisition? Yet, when they don't come...it's not important. YES. I agree. It is NOT about moral victories. Now that the Bruins won, we are NOT going to be satisfied with losing 7-1 but we won all 3 fights. Which is the reason why I don't want GOONS, but players that could take care of themselves, take care of the guys who can't, and that will not permit to see us being laughed at and ridiculized. AND that could play hockey. There are players like that. Unfortunately in here, you either want GOONS, or you either want skill. People, there are something in between.....
But then, while some don't want anything to do with that....I just hope it's not the same people who can't wait to see Conboy in our lineup.....a Conboy who still hasn't proved nothing as far as taking care of himself is concerned. But hey, he's a Habs draftee, it's great to have him on board.....but it's irrelevant to go and pick some of the guys like him, AND MUCH BETTER, up?
I guess there's something I'm not getting. Most people in here would have liked to get Kenopka, or Winchester or Rupp. I'd say at least 90%...isn't it? Yet, when we don't get those guys....you read how they were unuseful to begin with and that we don't need those pluggers....Question is...do we not need them because Gauthier told us so? Or did you never want them to begin with? Just to be sure who is who here. 'Cause it is possible that the ones who don't want them now are the same ones that didn't want them to begin with. Problem is that I don't believe everybody is consequent and that they NOW feel they are not needed because Gauthier decided to....But if you wanted those guys before....it surely wasn't to play fancy hockey. Then, you acknowledge the need of getting bigger and grittier which then has to dissapoint you if we don't go in that direction.
I personnally don't feel that the 8-6 loss against Boston the only instance where Habs players were getting laughed at, challenged and never did anything about it. I've never seen so much taunting towards the bench and we decided to turn the other cheek. Does it means more wins if we get a Rupp that would knock down a Thornton? Maybe not....but maybe it gives you a certain momentum during a game that you can turn a game around. But let say it doesn't.....where's that proudness to be a Habs? Where's that attitude that you will not laugh at me and certainly not in my building and in front of my fans? Doesn't that count for a little something? For whoever keeps saying now that they don't get how people are getting all worked up over 4th liners and that we don't need those goons....please tell me that you will ABSOLUTELY be OUTRAGED the day where one of this goon would have pounded another tough guy?
Personnally, and it's not towards everybody 'cause I know that some posters are totally consequent, I strongly believe that some are just getting their opinion in sync with what the management is doing. Who here would have been disgusted by a Rupp or a Kenopka acquisition? Yet, when they don't come...it's not important. YES. I agree. It is NOT about moral victories. Now that the Bruins won, we are NOT going to be satisfied with losing 7-1 but we won all 3 fights. Which is the reason why I don't want GOONS, but players that could take care of themselves, take care of the guys who can't, and that will not permit to see us being laughed at and ridiculized. AND that could play hockey. There are players like that. Unfortunately in here, you either want GOONS, or you either want skill. People, there are something in between.....
But then, while some don't want anything to do with that....I just hope it's not the same people who can't wait to see Conboy in our lineup.....a Conboy who still hasn't proved nothing as far as taking care of himself is concerned. But hey, he's a Habs draftee, it's great to have him on board.....but it's irrelevant to go and pick some of the guys like him, AND MUCH BETTER, up?
Whitesnake, I don't anyone is saying that they wouldn't want those players( well I am to a certain extent, but my thoughts are quite clear about guys who can only fight), it just that most won't lose sleep if they aren't signed. I think everyone has agreed that they wouldn't a little more toughness, however, they also think that this player has to be able to play some hockey when not fighting.
I mean, Whitesnake, do you seriously think signing an Eric Godard will make that big a difference? Hell it wasn't too long ago that we had Laraque, O'byrne, Komisarek, Begin and Boullion on the team and we still saw the same taunting as we do now(aside from the one game where Laraque kept Lucic quiet, but that required Laraque to play on the first line, which ended up hurting us in the end considering that we lost. After the game Laraque went back on the 4th line and Lucic kept taunting).
What you guys are asking for is a complete team identity change. It just won't happen and one guy won't change much, especially if he's a 4th line plugger. Like I said I'm all for getting a guy like Winchester because he can actually play decent hockey, but I'm not in favor of getting guys whose sole reason why they are in the nhl is because they can fight. We've been down that road many times with Laraque, Downey, Langdon etc. The funny part is when we had them everyone whined because they sucked and now that we don't have them, everyone whines because we don't have them.
I would never say no to a Neil or a Thornton, but they are rarer than we think. Rupp was a good chance, but as you heard from Dreger, ten teams offered the same amount and he chose the Rangers, nothing you can do more at the point unless you wanna offer more that 1.5 per year for 4 years for Mike Rupp.
