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Old
07-07-2011, 02:02 PM
  #276
SouthernHab
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There was a bunch of teams that were tough as nails with a bunch of players willing to fight anyone, they didn't win the cup.
In 1993, Roy wins Conn Smythe, Habs win cup.
In 2011, Thomas wins Conn Smythe, Bruins win cup.

That's why they won the cup, not because we had players willing to fight. We had 4 players with 80+ pts, three 30G scorers and one 40G one, we had 10players with more than 40pts. Last season we had 4 players with more than 40pts...
We had guys like Damphousse, Muller, Lebeau, Bellows, Desjardins, Schneider, Savard, Keane, LeClair, Carbonneau, Daigneault. These guys weren't the tough players willing to fight anyone. We had only two guys that were big and tough as important regulars, Todd Ewen and Lyle Odelein. Ewen played 1 game in the POs. Odelein was pretty much the only one used in the POs that fits the mold you're speaking off.
Despite all these crazy amazing stars and players, we probably still don't win if it's not for Roy playing like a God.
We didn't win the cup thanks to Roberge and Ewen. We won the camp mainly because of grit and skills.
The Bruins don't win the cup without Thomas. It's that simple.

In 97-98, we had big guys and others ready to drop their gloves at any moment. Guys like Corson, Quintal, Tucker, Vukotu (to show you how fighting was a lot more important back then, this guy played 10years with more than 550 games, and didn't even break the 50pt mark!), Ryan, Stevenson, Thornton, Manson, Popovic, but we still ended up going nowhere.

Talent will always be miles and miles ahead of aggressiveness/fighters. A good mixture is welcomed, but the two biggest determining factor in building a winning team is grit and talent.
We have 5 guys that should get at least 20goals next year, AK-Plek-Cammy-Gio-Cole, with the possibility of having another (MaxPac). We didn't even have that when we finished 1st in East and 2nd in GF back in 07-08.
So, there's really nothing to whine about. We're headed in the right direction and there's no point in crying over nothing. If we don't get an enforcer, it's really not the end of the world.
You know why I think that you are nothing more than a fanboy who is probably very good playing video hockey games and have no clue about what the Canadiens used to be like before the Boivin era?

You said this about Mike Keane "These guys weren't the tough players willing to fight anyone." . Even Desjardins had the balls to fight.

And again, you default back to the strawman argument that "all we want is a team filled with fighters" or the more laughable strawman that we believe that a team full of fighters will win the Cup.

Open your eyes and read what a lot of people are posting. We need talent AND tough guys willing to stand up for our forwards. Talent only wont work. Fighters only wont work. We need BOTH in Montreal like the great Cup Teams had.

Right now, we are still too soft. And that is not whining. That is stating a fact.

Cant believe you think that Keane wasnt tough. YouTube must not have the entire 92-93 season, eh?

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Old
07-07-2011, 02:37 PM
  #277
uiCk
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Food for thought, in 7 games of stanley cup finals, 1 fight, and it was Kesler and Seidenberg. How many fights in last years SCF? zero. How many fights the year befor? 1 fight, Malkin and Zetterberg.

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07-07-2011, 02:41 PM
  #278
Aurel Joliat
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Food for thought, in 7 games of stanley cup finals, 1 fight, and it was Kesler and Seidenberg. How many fights in last years SCF? zero. How many fights the year befor? 1 fight, Malkin and Zetterberg.
It's not the same game in playoffs. It's the final round. You prepare the playoffs during the season with some energy and give an identity to your club.

A fight is as rassemblor for a team than a goal. Did you see last year how Pouliot and Subban was proud of White when he fights Boychuk ?

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07-07-2011, 02:43 PM
  #279
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One day, fighting will be banned from the NHL or at least sanctioned and people will never believe that at one time, they let grown men settle disputes by fighting bareknuckles on skates.

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07-07-2011, 02:49 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
It's not the same game in playoffs. It's the final round. You prepare the playoffs during the season with some energy and give an identity to your club.

A fight is as rassemblor for a team than a goal. Did you see last year how Pouliot and Subban was proud of White when he fights Boychuk ?
so, we do have toughness. probably add a bit more and should be enough, because all this crap doesn't matter in the PO's.

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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
One day, fighting will be banned from the NHL or at least sanctioned and people will never believe that at one time, they let grown men settle disputes by fighting bareknuckles on skates.
pretty much. As much as i enjoy watching fights and highlights and old pre lockout games/series, its all out of entertainment. i can see the direction the NHL is going towards, and its only normal.

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07-07-2011, 03:27 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
2) Momentum. How exactly can you not be tired that everytime we lose 3-1, 4-2 or something around that corner in the 2nd period against either Toronto, Ottawa, Boston, Philly or Atlanta, team is flat on the ice, and the only way we can get back in it is by diving like a bunch of pansies and hope for a pp opportunity. How many teams a year do we see players look for fights, get into one and all of a sudden they own the ice and start scoring. Who does that on the Habs????
if you watched any hockey outside Habs games last season you saw that there's about 30 teams doing this diving, even the "toughest ones" resort to that... has nothing to do with toughness... nothing.

For sure you see the Habs doing it more, you watch them more...


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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
3) Confidence. That is by very far the most solid argument possible. At the end of the humiliating 8-6 game Thomas Plekanec told the media he would not minds having a protector on the team. What do you think (when the mikes are off) that what he said really ment? Guys must be pissed off and just tired of having to deal with the trash talking, the after whistle scrums and marginal scrubs playing like they're freacking Superman on the ice. Lucic and Niel were less intimidating then Mike Ribeiro when we had somebody that thy had to answer too. A goon doesn't need to fight every game, their presence Aline calms the arrogance of opposing team's players. That doesn't mean that Lucic or Niel will go back to the dressing room or stop hitting, but you will never see like what we saw when Plekanec and Pouliot had thei heads between their legs, yu could almost see the desperation in their faces. Protectors are usually great locker room players, they cheer for teammates and they make the team a family that has their back instead of 23 individuals playing hockey.
then, you sure have en explanation for the Habs - sans enforcer/tough guy - who had no problems giving the B a hockey clinic following the 8-6 circus...

I mean, they got beat up... where did they find the confidence/energy/focus to play a great game...




so yeah, if that's your most solid argument, no wonder people dont buy it...

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:28 PM
  #282
ToysInTheAttic
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I was a big fan of the Habs signing Laroque(sp?). He was supposed at the time to be among the best enforcers in the league, and a decent mucker type player. I was supremely disappointed. Found him much too honourable to fight most of the time and just a bad hockey player. So, I'll pass on the protector need.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:32 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
I was a big fan of the Habs signing Laroque(sp?). He was supposed at the time to be among the best enforcers in the league, and a decent mucker type player. I was supremely disappointed. Found him much too honourable to fight most of the time and just a bad hockey player. So, I'll pass on the protector need.
Just because Laraque was always hurt and too "nice" to do his job doesn't mean all enforcers are.

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07-07-2011, 03:43 PM
  #284
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Nobody wants a single useless **** like Laraque, a team of tough players who stand up fro themselves is the answer. No more cowards who sit on the bench and laugh while our guys get ragdolled by guys 50lbs heavier than them.

Seems like a lot of guys in this thread are twisting words to try and make an argument or they simply don't have the mental capacity to understand the posts.

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07-07-2011, 03:58 PM
  #285
ToysInTheAttic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Just because Laraque was always hurt and too "nice" to do his job doesn't mean all enforcers are.
This is true. However, I am reticent because at the time he was signed he was deemed to be the best enforcer/player in the league. I'd rather see an enforcer come up through the Habs system. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this was the case with Ferguson, Bouchard, Robinson, Nilan, and Kordic.

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07-07-2011, 04:05 PM
  #286
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Ferguson was acquired from Cincinnati i believe

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07-07-2011, 04:55 PM
  #287
uiCk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Nobody wants a single useless **** like Laraque, a team of tough players who stand up fro themselves is the answer. No more cowards who sit on the bench and laugh while our guys get ragdolled by guys 50lbs heavier than them.

Seems like a lot of guys in this thread are twisting words to try and make an argument or they simply don't have the mental capacity to understand the posts.
that was 1 game brah, get over it, i'm sure most players have. Gotta be have mental toughness to get over an 'humiliating' event as such. I know i was, but i got over it, and most players on the team got over it during the game, since habs kept scoring and playing the game. Thats toughness, not letting your instincts overcome your reasoning, because of feelings, something alot of people around here seem to lack and want to compensate with physical toughness.


Last edited by uiCk: 07-07-2011 at 05:01 PM.
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Old
07-07-2011, 05:18 PM
  #288
Aurel Joliat
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Just because Laraque was always hurt and too "nice" to do his job doesn't mean all enforcers are.
Exactly ! People don't understand

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07-07-2011, 06:25 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
One day, fighting will be banned from the NHL or at least sanctioned and people will never believe that at one time, they let grown men settle disputes by fighting bareknuckles on skates.
And that day, they will have lost a long time fan.

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07-07-2011, 06:28 PM
  #290
ToysInTheAttic
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
And that day, they will have lost a long time fan.
+1. As long as we men don't go all effeminate, that day will never come.

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07-07-2011, 06:29 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
And that day, they will have lost a long time fan.
So are you saying that the only thing that keeps you attatched to hockey is fighting?

Sports evolve and change all the time. I bet when they introduced helmets people thought the same, but now we couldnt even imagine the game being played without it.

The game of hockey has sooooooo many interesting aspects of it aside from fighting. In fact fighting isn't even a defining feature of hockey. Look at olympic of international hockey without fighting, its great to watch.

Sad that out of all those aspects that define hockey, fighting is the one that will make you stop watching the sport.

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07-07-2011, 06:39 PM
  #292
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Fighting will never leave.

Face it: aside from the home team scoring a goal in a game, the next thing that gets the crowd standing is a fight. It's what adds to a rivalry, it's what happens in a physical, high speed sport with no out of bounds where tempers rise and sometimes get the best of you.

It's also something you might hope to see in a game that lacks any emotion. Not all 0-0 games are snoozers, but some can be. And in those cases, you need something to get the crowd going.

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07-07-2011, 06:59 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
So are you saying that the only thing that keeps you attatched to hockey is fighting?

Sports evolve and change all the time. I bet when they introduced helmets people thought the same, but now we couldnt even imagine the game being played without it.

The game of hockey has sooooooo many interesting aspects of it aside from fighting. In fact fighting isn't even a defining feature of hockey. Look at olympic of international hockey without fighting, its great to watch.

Sad that out of all those aspects that define hockey, fighting is the one that will make you stop watching the sport.
Sorry, I should know better but to speak in figurative language. There was a lot more to read into that than the literal sense.

Let's just say that it would be the last drop in the bucket, that I've had enough of watching the stupidity at the top of the NHL. I won't get deeper into that if that's okay, it's all been discussed before. Agreed to disagree before we start.

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07-07-2011, 07:13 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Mynameismark View Post
Fighting will never leave.

Face it: aside from the home team scoring a goal in a game, the next thing that gets the crowd standing is a fight. It's what adds to a rivalry, it's what happens in a physical, high speed sport with no out of bounds where tempers rise and sometimes get the best of you.

It's also something you might hope to see in a game that lacks any emotion. Not all 0-0 games are snoozers, but some can be. And in those cases, you need something to get the crowd going.
When there's a fight between two goons, I take that opportunity to go take a leak. Is there something less meaningful and interesting than two ****ing monkeys who are there only to fight going at it ?

When Lecavalier fights Iginla in the playoffs, I definitely am interested though.

But 99% of fights lately are meaningless and boring as hell. Fights used to be great when they were slugfests but now it's grabfest and that's no fun.

In their current state, I wouldn't bat an eye if they were banned.

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Old
07-07-2011, 07:26 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
And that day, they will have lost a long time fan.
then so be it...though I really doubt you'll stop watching hockey because there's no fighting.

one day, a player will be paralyzed or worse...and people will re-examine the aspect of fighting in the NHL

btw - the most popular sport and physical sport in North America does not allow fighting in their sport, you might be familiar with it, it's called the NFL.

They're not doing too bad (othe than the lockout thingy right now lol)

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07-07-2011, 07:27 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
that was 1 game brah, get over it, i'm sure most players have. Gotta be have mental toughness to get over an 'humiliating' event as such. I know i was, but i got over it, and most players on the team got over it during the game, since habs kept scoring and playing the game. Thats toughness, not letting your instincts overcome your reasoning, because of feelings, something alot of people around here seem to lack and want to compensate with physical toughness.
Worse, some seem to want OTHERS to be tough so THEY can feel better about the team they identify with.

Messed up if you ask me.

A couple of people rudely told me that my opinion didn't matter because I am a Baseball Coach. Well, you know what, every day in baseball I see REAL toughness shown, such as when a child gets hit with a fast pitch on a body part that has no equipment to protect him, and yet he overcomes his fear and learns to get back in the box and try again to hit a fast round ball with a round bat.

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07-07-2011, 07:28 PM
  #297
417
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Originally Posted by Mynameismark View Post
Fighting will never leave.

Face it: aside from the home team scoring a goal in a game, the next thing that gets the crowd standing is a fight. It's what adds to a rivalry, it's what happens in a physical, high speed sport with no out of bounds where tempers rise and sometimes get the best of you.

It's also something you might hope to see in a game that lacks any emotion. Not all 0-0 games are snoozers, but some can be. And in those cases, you need something to get the crowd going.
It's a matter of time...players are getting too big, too strong. Something will happen to some player one day.

allowing fighting in the NHL, is the equivalent of if NFL players still wore leather helmets on the field

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07-07-2011, 07:35 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by ToysInTheAttic View Post
+1. As long as we men don't go all effeminate, that day will never come.
so i'm effiminate because I think grown men settling disputes by fighting with their bare knuckles on the ice?

Thanks Don Cherry

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07-07-2011, 07:47 PM
  #299
Aurel Joliat
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And that day, they will have lost a long time fan.
Me too. It's a part of the sport. It's like if they banish base stealing from baseball...

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07-07-2011, 07:51 PM
  #300
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Me too. It's a part of the sport. It's like if they banish base stealing from baseball...
Base stealing isn't punished currently, fighting is.

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