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Old
07-04-2011, 01:08 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya, he's not ''as good'' yet. He only played about 40 nhl games. But he is in the same mold. He doesn't hurt his team on the ice, he's good defensively, fast, hits a lot and fights. Same mold.
Have you seen Thornton's and neil's face: they are scary

White's face is one of a teenager

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07-04-2011, 01:32 PM
  #127
Aurel Joliat
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Have you seen Thornton's and neil's face: they are scary

White's face is one of a teenager
I love White but he can't do the job alone





S'pour que l'monde aille peur !

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07-04-2011, 01:57 PM
  #128
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Moen and White can't do the job alone. Especially, when you're looking at most of the other team and they have a guy that can scrap on every line!

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07-04-2011, 02:12 PM
  #129
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Have you seen Thornton's and neil's face: they are scary

White's face is one of a teenager
Right...as if that actually mattered.
The guy is a good scrapper that's all that counts.

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07-04-2011, 02:27 PM
  #130
Aurel Joliat
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Right...as if that actually mattered.
The guy is a good scrapper that's all that counts.
White is a good scrapper against lightweight like him but he can't fight Thornton in Boston, Orr or Rosehill in Toronto, Carkner or Neil in Ottawa. All in our division. But I think he can give a very good opposition to McCormick in Buffalo

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07-04-2011, 03:24 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I said goons were useless, not fighting or toughness. I also followed that up by saying guys like Moen and White are not. We need more of the latter mold, less of the former.

Guys like Thornton fight other goons and other pluggers. That's useless. We witnessed this with Laraque. These guys only fight other goons.

Guys like White/Souray/Moen drop the gloves when they feel they're players have been cheapshoted and we've witnessed them stand up for their teammates when it does happen.
Rupp fits that mold. So does Vandermeer. So does Eager and Konopka.

However, we continue to see those types of players not being brought into Montreal. Gainey was not into having tough guys on the team (yeah, someone please bring up Laraque for the 100th time) and neither is Gauthier or Martin.

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07-04-2011, 04:06 PM
  #132
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1.Cheap shots have nothing to do with the subject of this team needing a "protector".
2.Thorton,and his type only fight other "plugs" so its a wash and a waste of a lineup spot when you could have a skill player there.Unless of course he decides to fight Roman Hamrlik.No code in effect with this Bruins team,only intimidation used as a tool.
3.I say this respectfully but,if you think intimidation is not vital with regards to winning and losing you probably havent played the game past PeeWee.
4.Thorton,and his style of fearless bang and crash,WAS a factor in the Bruins success in the finals.Without doubt.
5.Someone mentioned to get more out of Moen he should not be our "go to" first line of toughness.He is not capable.He would flourish if he had some insulation in such a role.The same could be said of White.
6.I have little faith that anything will be done to address this hole in the teams makeup that the rest of the hockey world recognizes and laughs at and ,worst of all,will be anxious to exploit all season long.Its like building a team without say a d-man who can make a good pass or play the point on the PP.It makes no sense to ignore it.Ateam must be balanced in all areas to succeed.

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07-04-2011, 04:16 PM
  #133
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We need a protector? I'd say the word guardian would be more appropriate. But wait... we already got one, and his name ain't Big Georges "Tek Savvy" Laraque.



Quote:
"The Canadien" is a ladies' man, culturally refined and quite simply the best at everything he's ever attempted. He expects to win in everything he does and the other Guardians love and respect him. He's fiercely independent and marches to the beat of his own drum.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=549577

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Old
07-04-2011, 04:28 PM
  #134
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
White is a good scrapper against lightweight like him but he can't fight Thornton in Boston, Orr or Rosehill in Toronto, Carkner or Neil in Ottawa. All in our division. But I think he can give a very good opposition to McCormick in Buffalo
I wouldn't call White off yet. He's young and hasn't refused anybody, although I definitely hope he would refuse some invitations. Doubt he'd back out versus Neil though.

In any event, I wouldn't mind adding a better fighter.

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:42 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
White is a good scrapper against lightweight like him but he can't fight Thornton in Boston, Orr or Rosehill in Toronto, Carkner or Neil in Ottawa. All in our division.
That's not really a bad thing considering that three of the five names you gave can be removed from having any relevance in a game simply by not fighting them.

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07-04-2011, 06:19 PM
  #136
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I miss the Keane, Nilan, Chelios, Ludwig and the bunch. NO they didn't prevent injuries to our players. They made the HABS the agressors. Retaliating means being BEHIND the game.

Hey -- no one came within 6 feet of Roy without loosing teeth or flying into the corner. Guess what. Roy had a little more room to work.

We need to be the smackers. Not the smackees.

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07-04-2011, 07:05 PM
  #137
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I don't think the Habs need players who fight.

I think we need more players who use a strong physical presence while the play is going on.

A couple more big, physical players who hit hard will wear out the opposition and draw incoming hits away from our smaller guys.

Having a good fighter may be emotionally satisfying after the fact, but it does nothing to protect our guys in the moment. Big guys are effective when they tire out the other team, not when they fight them.

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Old
07-04-2011, 08:09 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, and we have that with Ryan White. Maybe you'd like him to be a better fighter, but he fits the mold perfectly. I have no problem adding another player like him either, but Konopka isn't one of them. I said I would have been happy with Rupp here but he's not available anymore. There isn't a bunch of them out there.
Ryan White is nowhere near the fighter of Neil or Thornton. I like Ryan White and brings physical presence as being hard on the forecheck and throws some nice hits. He is also not afraid to drop'em but he is NOT a good fighter.

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07-04-2011, 08:12 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
You seem to have a hard time making the difference between a "goon" and a "protector".

No one wants to have a gorilla that will play 2-4 min a game.

We want a player that can play well on a 4th line (or a botton D-pairing) and providing a physical presence when his teamates are intimidated by the opponents.


Don't tell me you would not like a Shawn Thornton or a Chris Neil on our team.

If you like this team so much, you have to care about the physical integrity of its players, and moral toughness.
You hit the nail right on the head here. When someone talks about tough guys who can fight, they automatically assume that we're talking about guys who can't play hockey.

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07-04-2011, 08:34 PM
  #140
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Is Eric Boulton still available ?

Brad Winchester, Zenon Konopka are other interesting options

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07-04-2011, 10:21 PM
  #141
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
When someone talks about tough guys who can fight, they automatically assume that we're talking about guys who can't play hockey.
yeah you do. you want konopka.

and like it hasn't been mentioned a billion times already. guys that can play, hit and fight, are a rather rare commodity and teams hang on to them. i'd murder my grandma for a guy like lucic, or a version of lucic that actually shows up in the playoffs at least...

and for god's sake, this isn't the mid 90's. enforcers do. not. have. a. purpose. anymore! of all the injuries we had last year, only one was 'maybe' not an accident and that was pacioretty. plus, i hate to be that guy, but no one could retaliate against chara anyways so the point is moot.

yesterday you posted the breakdown of konopka's penalty and you were quite proud to point out how many majors he had, how many game misconduct he had and so on. 120 combined minutes in misconducts to be exact. the point is to win games, how many games do you think his antics cost the islanders? plus, the isles were one of the most injured team in the league last season.

yeah, we need konopka to protect our players!


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07-04-2011, 11:04 PM
  #142
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by habs24 View Post
Ryan White is nowhere near the fighter of Neil or Thornton. I like Ryan White and brings physical presence as being hard on the forecheck and throws some nice hits. He is also not afraid to drop'em but he is NOT a good fighter.
Never said he was. He's a decent one compared to the norm. He can hold his own versus other average fighters. But if you want to compare him to the best fighters, then ya, he's not good.

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07-04-2011, 11:13 PM
  #143
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Never said he was. He's a decent one compared to the norm. He can hold his own versus other average fighters. But if you want to compare him to the best fighters, then ya, he's not good.
he's not playing in the big league for his fighting abilities.

the kid's got energy, he can play, can hit and isn't a liability on the ice. all of these are more important than his jab. so i don't really care if he's an average fighter

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07-04-2011, 11:37 PM
  #144
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
he's not playing in the big league for his fighting abilities.

the kid's got energy, he can play, can hit and isn't a liability on the ice. all of these are more important than his jab. so i don't really care if he's an average fighter
Agreed. I don't care about his fighting abilities. He's a good 4th line player, that's what's more important.

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07-04-2011, 11:46 PM
  #145
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Add me to the list of 'I'd-like-another-scrapper-but-only-if-he-can-play-8-or-10 minutes-while-being-reliable-defensively'

So... anyone know a guy that herds bigger versions of Ryan White? If you do, pass the info to Gauthier.

Oh, screw it. Let's put the one we got on steroids and growth hormons! It's not like he got a shot at making the Olympic team anyway and we all now NHL tests are worthless...

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Old
07-05-2011, 08:38 AM
  #146
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yeah you do. you want konopka.
I know it may come as a surprise, but a guy who can play hockey does not necessarily mean a guy who will score goals! There are several roles to be filled on a team aside from that and Konopka fills a couple of them.

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07-05-2011, 08:46 AM
  #147
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I think guys like Konopka, Boulton and Winchester are plenty good enough to play 8-10 minutes a night and be responible on the ice.

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07-05-2011, 08:53 AM
  #148
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I think guys like Konopka, Boulton and Winchester are plenty good enough to play 8-10 minutes a night and be responible on the ice.
Totally agree. Hope this gets addressed shortly.

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07-05-2011, 08:58 AM
  #149
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I think guys like Konopka, Boulton and Winchester are plenty good enough to play 8-10 minutes a night and be responible on the ice.
Totally agree. Hope this gets addressed shortly.

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07-05-2011, 09:39 AM
  #150
MasterDecoy
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I know it may come as a surprise, but a guy who can play hockey does not necessarily mean a guy who will score goals! There are several roles to be filled on a team aside from that and Konopka fills a couple of them.
really? shocking. that's news to me

ask any islander fans. most will say that they like him, but that he is not worth the contract he wants, and that other than beating up people and winning faceoffs, he is useless on the ice. since people like to use +/- as an indication of how good someone is, how's that for a stats:

10:11 TOI/g
-14
307 PIM

he fills a hole with his faceoff ability, but digs another hole by simply sucking at hockey.

if guys ride hammer's or akost's dick for the occasional ****up, i can't wait to see your reaction to konopka if he ends up playing for us

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