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Cody Franson and C Matthew Lombardi for D Brett Lebda and F Robert Slaney

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Old
07-05-2011, 03:43 PM
  #276
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Care to say which coaches, GM or scout?
I guarantee you there won't be more than 1

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07-05-2011, 03:48 PM
  #277
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OK Looking at out team (bring all RFAs back) and their goal scoring:

SK 23
PH 21
ME 17
DL 17
SW 16
CW 16
JT 8
NS 8
CO 6
BG 6
JS 5
MF 5
RS 4
MH 4
HB 4
KK 2

Now how many of those guys do you realistically not see topping their production from last year? SK? But he could get more. Meaning we have to replace basically 47 goals....Fisher should replace at least 10-15 of those (he only scored 5 with us). So, although not completely satisfied with where our team is now, it's not as bad as people think. We'll add another forward or two also.

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07-05-2011, 03:57 PM
  #278
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Care to say which coaches, GM or scout?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
I guarantee you there won't be more than 1
Don't be mad at me because someone stole your goat. You can pick out a new one this season!

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07-05-2011, 03:59 PM
  #279
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What's funny is going into last season all we heard was how great our offensive depth was, this year it's how awful we're going to be offensively.

Nevermind the fact that the Predators probably had more injuries up front than 97% of the league last season. Nevermind that SK is not going to start on the bottom pairing. Nevermind we get a full season of Mike Fisher, a full season of Blum and an older more seasoned Wilson.

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07-05-2011, 04:10 PM
  #280
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Wilson hasn't shown an ounce of consistency.

I am really starting to dislike this site. If you disagree with certain posters you will be eaten alive. That would be why I rarely post anymore.

And to answer some of those questions, ellis got pushed around last year in camp and during the preseason games. To deny the obvious is to turn a blind eye to the truth. Furthermore there is a reason why we tried to move him to boston because courtier would've fit our need and it sucks that trade didn't pan out but it doesn't mean we should stop trying.

The RFA contracts NEVER should've been sent that late. Never. Its inexcusable that it would even be a possibility for a problem. Don't try to guilt trip me by saying oh they have a family. A mistake is a mistake and if it costs us our RFA there needs to be consequences.

Furthermore we don't have the scoring depth we had last year. We had half our forward core come down with injuries. What would happen if that happens again next year? Yeah bad things.

I am sorry poile has not had good asset management this summer. Yes bergfors was a good deal if he pans. out like SK but so far I do not approve of the roster moves. Sorry if that rubs some of you the wrong way.

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07-05-2011, 04:11 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Here's my thoughts...

This move cannot be judged yet until we know what Poile plans on doing with the cap space/cash that was just freed up. He has to spend it per the CBA and judging this move without knowing how that money will be spent is premature as the facts are not all in.

To re-sign Weber (and Suter/Rinne) we need to show a commitment to winning. Trading off guys to simply bring back what we already have isn't going to get that done. Instead, I believe that Poile has another piece to this puzzle in the works that will bring everything full circle and will put this trade into context.

Cody Franson and Matt Lombardi's contracts were not traded for two minor league pieces. There is more here than meets the eye at the moment...
+1

The question is, what are the options for what to do with this cap space/cash? Everyone pretty much agrees we need a top 6 forward more than anything.

There aren't any available via UFA, except Teemu Selanne who hasn't even said if he'll play yet and wants to stay in Anaheim.

We could try to make a trade for someone, but we don't have anything good enough to give up in order to get an elite player in return, unless we want to do something like Weber for Stamkos. Weber, Suter and Rinne are the only players we have that would bring back superstar talent in return. I don't know why anyone thinks we might have been able to package Franson with some picks and unproven prospects and get a legit offensive star back. He wasn't worth that much.

We could drop an offer sheet on Stamkos or Parise. Doesn't seem very Predator-like and I don't see Poile doing it because of the picks we'd have to give up and the ill will it would create between us and other teams' GMs.

We could kidnap Radulov from Russia. Which would be sweet but in my opinion not quite good enough to make a big splash.

I trust Poile has something up his sleeve...at least I hope so or this will end up being the most depressing offseason ever. I just don't know where this offensive help is going to come from.

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07-05-2011, 04:22 PM
  #282
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Poile absolutely blows at trading.

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07-05-2011, 04:40 PM
  #283
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Wilson hasn't shown an ounce of consistency.

I am really starting to dislike this site. If you disagree with certain posters you will be eaten alive. That would be why I rarely post anymore.

And to answer some of those questions, ellis got pushed around last year in camp and during the preseason games. To deny the obvious is to turn a blind eye to the truth. Furthermore there is a reason why we tried to move him to boston because courtier would've fit our need and it sucks that trade didn't pan out but it doesn't mean we should stop trying.

The RFA contracts NEVER should've been sent that late. Never. Its inexcusable that it would even be a possibility for a problem. Don't try to guilt trip me by saying oh they have a family. A mistake is a mistake and if it costs us our RFA there needs to be consequences.

Furthermore we don't have the scoring depth we had last year. We had half our forward core come down with injuries. What would happen if that happens again next year? Yeah bad things.

I am sorry poile has not had good asset management this summer. Yes bergfors was a good deal if he pans. out like SK but so far I do not approve of the roster moves. Sorry if that rubs some of you the wrong way.
Remember Marek Svatos? It DID happen last year.

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07-05-2011, 04:41 PM
  #284
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I still don't see how people expected to get real value for Franson when we were throwing him into a salary dump trade. Seriously? Franson's true value is still a mystery to us all, and unless Toronto turns around to trade him before the season starts we will never know what it actually is. You cannot say that this trade shows DP was thinking true value of Franson was Brett Lebda while completely ignoring the fact that he just dumped a contract that virtually every agreed needed to be dumped. We saved money by not buying him out, and as far as I know you cannot buy out an injured player anyway. Did people really expect to get a good return on a salary dump? Did people expect a good, young forward prospect for Franson + $7m in dead weight? This isn't a video game. This is the real world where businesses don't take on substantial loss, and yes $7m is substantial loss, without incentive. Getting rid of Lebda was Toronto's incentive. Getting rid of Lombardi to free up $7m was our incentive. It took Franson, a young but easily replaceable asset, to get the deal done.

For all of the complaining about how bad the trade was I see no alternative offers, much less realistic ones.

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07-05-2011, 04:41 PM
  #285
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Let's kidnap Konstantin Glazachev while we're over there.

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07-05-2011, 04:47 PM
  #286
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Further, I'm sure every scenario for next season has been played out in David Poile's head. Being an armchair GM is fun, and often leads to interesting discussion. The fact remains that DP is sitting in the chair for a reason, and just by being in his position he automatically has an advantage of any one of us. He has all of the relevant information at his disposal. We don't know who is available for what price. We don't know offers that are discussed and eventually deemed bad deals. We don't know what plans are in the works. Being a GM is largely a thankless job until you see your team lift that big shiny trophy, and even then I guarantee the GM took more flak than he deserved en route.

We should all be open to discussion otherwise we don't have a reason for being here. That doesn't mean simply making assumptions based on your emotions, though. It means rationally thinking, and if you still disagree then so be it. Pretending like you know better than the guy who is doing the job you critique isn't being rational. It's being emotional. That goes for both sides, the "apologists" and the "perpetual pessimists" alike

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07-05-2011, 04:58 PM
  #287
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We don't know who is available for what price.
Neither does Poile unless a player agent picks up the phone and calls him first.

j/k

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07-05-2011, 04:59 PM
  #288
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Neither does Poile unless a player agent picks up the phone and calls him first.

j/k
Haha touche

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Old
07-05-2011, 05:00 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
Wilson hasn't shown an ounce of consistency.

I am really starting to dislike this site. If you disagree with certain posters you will be eaten alive. That would be why I rarely post anymore.

And to answer some of those questions, ellis got pushed around last year in camp and during the preseason games. To deny the obvious is to turn a blind eye to the truth. Furthermore there is a reason why we tried to move him to boston because courtier would've fit our need and it sucks that trade didn't pan out but it doesn't mean we should stop trying.

The RFA contracts NEVER should've been sent that late. Never. Its inexcusable that it would even be a possibility for a problem. Don't try to guilt trip me by saying oh they have a family. A mistake is a mistake and if it costs us our RFA there needs to be consequences.

Furthermore we don't have the scoring depth we had last year. We had half our forward core come down with injuries. What would happen if that happens again next year? Yeah bad things.

I am sorry poile has not had good asset management this summer. Yes bergfors was a good deal if he pans. out like SK but so far I do not approve of the roster moves. Sorry if that rubs some of you the wrong way.
You aren't being eaten alive because you have an opinion that differs from other's on this site...you're being eaten alive because you take a rather extreme and negative outlook on everything.

It makes me wonder how long you have been following this team...because with every summer comes another ONOZ! R TEAM IZ FALLING APART! THEZE RETARDZ DONT KNOW WHAT THER DOING! WHY DID WE TRADE AWAY <insert name here> ??? WE'RE GUNNA BE SO BAD NEXT YEAR. ITZ ALL POILES FAULT!!!

Chill, dude. Moves are being made to ensure the long term health of the team. If you think that we should win the Stanley Cup next season, I suggest you lower your expectations a little bit. The system the Predators have built is one of consistency and incremental success. Every year we're going to lose someone we don't want to lose, for whatever reason. Every year there will be injuries, players that under perform, and mistakes made on the ice, behind the bench, and in the front office. That's the nature of the game...it's the same (with varying degrees) with the other 29 teams in the league...no one has a perfect model. No one is too good to make a mistake. We're in fact fortunate to have a franchise that makes fewer mistakes on average, which is one reason why we have made the playoffs 6 of the last 7 seasons.

So again, you're welcome to you opinions on the good and the bad of the team management, and of player evaluations....but again, they are opinions, nothing else. Don't expect anyone to pat you on the back for them.

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Old
07-05-2011, 05:49 PM
  #290
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Nashvols

You literally did not counter a single obe of my points so good work on that. Furthermore this site is becoming the old Preds boards and it is a but irksome since this place is very enjoyable.

Don't question my loyality or longevity with the team.

Lastly, yes we are one top 3 forward away from being a True cup contender and not just a competative club. We have the best goaltender in the world and the two of three best defensemen in the world not to mention a solid group of young forwards. How much longer are we going to accept mediocrity? We have almost all the pieces in place we are riding a wave of playoff and attendance success. If now is not the time then when?

And if Stricklands post is true then maybe shea agrees with me.

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07-05-2011, 05:50 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by randymc2641 View Post
Let's kidnap Konstantin Glazachev while we're over there.
Is he well thought of? I few years back, he had a great season with Astana in the KHL. But haven't heard much since.

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07-05-2011, 05:51 PM
  #292
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And if Stricklands post is true then maybe shea agrees with me.
My first thought when I saw Strickland's tweet was, "Oh dear, what if Joetimo is Shea Weber?" He may actually be just as ticked as you.

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07-05-2011, 05:55 PM
  #293
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Nashvols

You literally did not counter a single obe of my points so good work on that. Furthermore this site is becoming the old Preds boards and it is a but irksome since this place is very enjoyable.

Don't question my loyality or longevity with the team.

Lastly, yes we are one top 3 forward away from being a True cup contender and not just a competative club. We have the best goaltender in the world and the two of three best defensemen in the world not to mention a solid group of young forwards. How much longer are we going to accept mediocrity? We have almost all the pieces in place we are riding a wave of playoff and attendance success. If now is not the time then when?
I actually don't disagree with a lot of what you say, it's the severity of the stance I take issue with. I do think now is the time for exactly what you are saying. I think we need to make a splash and trade assets like Ellis (I just don't agree that his value is absolutely peaked, though I agree it is very possible). Personally, I'd prefer to trade Blum because his value has to be so much higher than Ellis because he's already a #3 and we have 31 defenseman dying for his spot.

My advice is to always remember this is a message board filled with idiots like myself. And idiots react more strongly to strong opinions. And you, my friend, are filled with strong, impassioned opinions.

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07-05-2011, 06:25 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Joetimo View Post
Nashvols

You literally did not counter a single obe of my points so good work on that. Furthermore this site is becoming the old Preds boards and it is a but irksome since this place is very enjoyable.

Don't question my loyality or longevity with the team.

Lastly, yes we are one top 3 forward away from being a True cup contender and not just a competative club. We have the best goaltender in the world and the two of three best defensemen in the world not to mention a solid group of young forwards. How much longer are we going to accept mediocrity? We have almost all the pieces in place we are riding a wave of playoff and attendance success. If now is not the time then when?

And if Stricklands post is true then maybe shea agrees with me.
I'm sorry, did you want me to counter all of your "points"? They're opinions. I'd be countering with my own. What's there to gain with that? That we disagree on a fundamental level?

I didn't question your loyalty, but the longevity question was just one wondering why someone who has been through the ups and downs of this organization could be caught off guard by the happenings of the first 4 effing days of free agency. The time to scream bloody murder isn't in July (unless Jim Balsillie announces that he's buying a stake in the team...in July).

The reason that some folks are being particularly hard on you, and others is that you're panicking like this franchise is on a one way trip to hell because we haven't tied up the loose ends before the season starts...in October. I'm also sick of hearing about how awful David Poile has been through this stretch. Some even calling for his job. Really? The arbiter hasn't even ruled on the status of the RFAs and some folks are already wanting for heads to roll.

I'd love for Nashvillians to share the same passion as the Canadian fans when it comes to hockey....but not to this degree of delusion.



Now I do agree that we lack some offense if we are going to seriously compete for the Stanley Cup....but what true top 3 guy was available, and in our budget as a UFA? If you would rather make a trade, who do you trade for a true top liner? Ryan Suter? It's certainly not going to be a draft pick or a Cody Franson.

Hopefully this team is trying to make deals for the long term health of the franchise. Signing Shea Weber is obviously a big deal (for how long, we don't know)...but we also have to deal with the reality that Ryan Suter and Pekka Rinne are UFAs next season, and there is nothing we can do to stop them from leaving if they don't want to be here. We will definitely have to pony up some cash to keep them around. If we spend all of our extra money this season on a big name forward, we might find ourselves short on cash to resign Peks or Sutes next season.

As you say, we have [one of] the best goalie in the world, and two of the top defensemen, as well as a lot of younger talent at forward....so what about that spells mediocrity to you? What about 6 straight 40+ win seasons is mediocre? If we have a solid young group, what is the great need to sign an expensive forward? Could the guys in Milwaukee not grow into their role here?

You say if not now then when...is this a once in a lifetime shot? I'd rather build a solid base, and keep injecting homegrown talent + minor pieces into it. It has turned us into a consistent playoff contender so far...who's to say it won't turn us into a consistent Cup contender in the near future? I'm not saying we can't win the Cup in 11-12...but why should we act like it's our only shot? Why hit the panic button when the GM doesn't do what YOU want him to do? I mean, for Christ's sake...he has infinitely more experience and knowledge than any of us fans do. I'm not saying don't question him...but people calling for his job? Who, pray tell, will we replace him with?

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07-06-2011, 12:24 AM
  #295
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They better sign Weber or this doesn't make sense!

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07-06-2011, 12:59 AM
  #296
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Actually, Poile isn't looking too good so far this offseason. Too many questions/variables for a team that just went the furthest in franchise history. We need to build upon that. Right now, especially to the casual fan, we are going backwards. We need to make a big move soon.

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07-06-2011, 02:13 AM
  #297
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07-06-2011, 09:42 AM
  #298
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Originally Posted by kypredsfan View Post
Actually, Poile isn't looking too good so far this offseason. Too many questions/variables for a team that just went the furthest in franchise history. We need to build upon that. Right now, especially to the casual fan, we are going backwards. We need to make a big move soon.
The casual fan is not as involved as we are. They're not even paying attention at this point.

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07-06-2011, 09:55 AM
  #299
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The casual fan is not as involved as we are. They're not even paying attention at this point.
I agree. The casual fan won't re-engage until September/October and will do so with optimism almost regardless of what happens.

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07-06-2011, 10:04 AM
  #300
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I disagree that the casual fan isn't even paying attention. They're paying attention enough to see the names that have left. They don't have the understanding to see why or know that Joel Ward is getting more money to play the same or lesser role somewhere else. They just see names they recognize leaving, and names they've never heard of coming in.

Seth and I were discussing this last night...it's been a pretty bad summer for Preds PR thus far. It's far from over, but I'd say there's a lot of work to be done in what should have been an offseason with a lot of excitement and momentum.

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