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Jackets signed Alexandre Giroux

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07-05-2011, 12:09 AM
  #51
Palinka
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Geez, don't know this guy but how didn't he get more of a chance in other orgs? Dudes like 30 and just tears it up in the NHL. He's even got some points at the NHL level in his brief stints.

What's wrong with this guy that he's been buried with that level of production?
He's not really an NHL-caliber player, any more than Simon Gamache and Steve Maltais and...I don't know. It's too early to go thinking about AHL- and IHL-caliber players from today and yesterday. But for an interesting point of reference, dig up some old IHL and AHL All-Star rosters from the late 1990s and see how many of them played in Columbus, even if for a short period of time.

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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Considering Syracuse's recent spat with Anaheim, I wonder if Lindsay Kramer is choking?
Screw Syracuse, and Kramer can sit on it. I'm not a fan of the minor-league-as-farm-team arrangement, but if a team wants to raise hell over their real or perceived issues, then grow a pair and go independent.

Funny how horrible everything was with the Columbus affiliation... and yet Syracuse would be begging to dump Anaheim and come crawling back if they weren't tied in.

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07-05-2011, 06:51 AM
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Well um, I guess Howson's doing... something

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07-05-2011, 07:07 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Palinka View Post
He's not really an NHL-caliber player, any more than Simon Gamache and Steve Maltais and...I don't know.
You are going to have to dig up something more than, "Yeah, he's just not NHL caliber.". That's fairly useless as a player evaluation and not worth reading. There are obviously reasons that he's not being considered. The only thing I've read so far is that "he's slow". Based on his something like 11 points in 39 games, his production, in his brief stints, is ok for bottom six.

Having said that, if we're jacking around with this guy on giving him a real shot at the NHL.... Well that's not cool. From everything I'm reading, that's his goal. If the scouts have already made up his mind, well.... We'd be paying him well for AHL duty, but it's just lip service.

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07-05-2011, 08:05 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
You are going to have to dig up something more than, "Yeah, he's just not NHL caliber.". That's fairly useless as a player evaluation and not worth reading. There are obviously reasons that he's not being considered. The only thing I've read so far is that "he's slow". Based on his something like 11 points in 39 games, his production, in his brief stints, is ok for bottom six.

Having said that, if we're jacking around with this guy on giving him a real shot at the NHL.... Well that's not cool. From everything I'm reading, that's his goal. If the scouts have already made up his mind, well.... We'd be paying him well for AHL duty, but it's just lip service.
I've watched Giroux on and off since he came into the league in cities from Binghamton to Hartford to Hershey. The problem with Giroux is that he is not physical enough or good enough defensively to play on a 3rd or 4th line in the NHL and he's not fast enough, nor is he a good enough finisher to play on a scoring line.

Let's put it this way, it's not as if he's been with one organization that didn't give him a chance to make the NHL roster. The Blue Jackets will be his 5th organization, and he has played a total of 39 NHL game in 10 seasons and has scored a total of 5 goals (versus an average of over 30 in the AHL). Heck, last year Edmonton gave him a one way deal worth about a million and, not only did they eat his contract by sending him down to the AHL after just 9 games, but he also cleared waivers. Plus on most of the teams that he has played for he wasn't even the first or even second forward that would be called up due to an injury on the NHL roster. Doesn't this give you enough information to know that the guy just isn't an NHL player?

Simply put, every player has a ceiling of some sort. There are plenty of players over the years that could light up the AHL like a Christmas tree, but simply couldn't play at the NHL level. Giroux is just one of those players.

And, to be brutally honest, if Giroux does make the CBJ roster, then you should be very worried about how they will do in the 2011-12 season.

But, from a Falcons fan's perspective, this is huge as the Springfield faithful may actually get to see a winning team on the ice for the first time in this millennium.


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07-05-2011, 10:20 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I've watched Giroux on and off since he came into the league in cities from Binghamton to Hartford to Hershey. The problem with Giroux is that he is not physical enough or good enough defensively to play on a 3rd or 4th line in the NHL and he's not fast enough, nor is he a good enough finisher to play on a scoring line.
Since you used the phrase "Let's put it this way", I'll lay it out for you. I never said he didn't get a shot or that he should be in the NHL.

Your second statement bothers me. You can't score 60 goals in the AHL and not be able to "finish". That may not translate to 30 goals in the NHL, but playing 8-10 minute a night I bet it translates to over 10. I also hate the lazy "He doesn't have NHL talent" line.

I'll just have to watch what happens in camp. If he's not a good skater that will be obvious in camp (that would be a very good reason). I have my own thoughts forming on what the issue is. I'll see if that's the case in camp.

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07-05-2011, 10:42 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Since you used the phrase "Let's put it this way", I'll lay it out for you. I never said he didn't get a shot or that he should be in the NHL.

Your second statement bothers me. You can't score 60 goals in the AHL and not be able to "finish". That may not translate to 30 goals in the NHL, but playing 8-10 minute a night I bet it translates to over 10. I also hate the lazy "He doesn't have NHL talent" line.

I'll just have to watch what happens in camp. If he's not a good skater that will be obvious in camp (that would be a very good reason). I have my own thoughts forming on what the issue is. I'll see if that's the case in camp.
Actually you kind of did say that when you asked "What's wrong with this guy that he's been buried with that level of production?" That sounds to me that you are asking why he hasn't gotten a shot.

Not to make a very obvious statement, but finishing at the AHL level is different than finishing at the NHL level. So, forgive me for not saying he can't finish "at the NHL" level in my initial statement. Of course he can finish at the AHL level, just like many players who lit up mite, college, juniors, SPHL or ECHL but couldn't take it to the next level.

I'm sorry that you don't like the "lazy" he doesn't have NHL talent line, but he doesn't and when you see him against other NHL players you will see that as well. I've watched hundreds of players over the years at the AHL level and there are some that, despite their numbers, look like NHL players. Giroux, despite incredible production, doesn't have the look of an NHLer. But, to simply break it down from the dozens of games that I have watched him, he isn't fast enough, he doesn't have a hard enough shot nor does he have a quick enough release to be an effective scorer at the NHL level. Further, despite being 6'3", 202 lbs he does not play physical enough to play on a 3rd or 4th line nor is is a great shutdown forward.

Honestly if it was just one or even two organizations I would have an open mind about Giroux possibly being an NHL player, but it's been 4 organizations over 10 seasons that haven't even had him as the top 1 or 2 callups so clearly those teams do not see any NHL potential in him. For goodness sakes, doesn't the fact that the 29th ranked team in scoring last year sent him down after 9 games and didn't bring him back up tell you something?

Besides, how many players in their 11th professional season finally make it to the NHL?


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07-05-2011, 11:00 AM
  #57
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can someone provide a link to a artical with a summary of the cuse complaints against the cbj, then a covering their issues with the ducks?


although syracuse to anahiem cant be a easy plane to catch

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07-05-2011, 11:34 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Actually you kind of did say that when you asked "What's wrong with this guy that he's been buried with that level of production?" That sounds to me that you are asking why he hasn't gotten a shot.
Are you kidding me? A bunch of times in your latest post. I'm quickly going to head to being a jerk here, but I think I'm going to need to break out the crayons. Or I'm just going to have to ignore you. I think I'll go with the latter.

You are arguing a bunch of stuff I either didn't say, didn't imply, or I could "prove" with a 3rd grade knowledge of math.

Listening to people like you, you seem to think I'm saying "OMFG, what's wrong with all you GM's our there in the world for not playing him? UR stooopid.". You do realize that asking a question can be completely neutral, correct? It doesn't have to imply I am for or against a position. And yes, someone that has never watched the player or hockey for that matter can say "He doesn't have NHL talent". Guess what they can also say "I've watched him like 80 bazillion times".

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07-05-2011, 03:49 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
You are going to have to dig up something more than, "Yeah, he's just not NHL caliber.". That's fairly useless as a player evaluation and not worth reading. There are obviously reasons that he's not being considered. The only thing I've read so far is that "he's slow". Based on his something like 11 points in 39 games, his production, in his brief stints, is ok for bottom six.

Having said that, if we're jacking around with this guy on giving him a real shot at the NHL.... Well that's not cool. From everything I'm reading, that's his goal. If the scouts have already made up his mind, well.... We'd be paying him well for AHL duty, but it's just lip service.
If their minds have been made up, he wouldn't have been signed to a two-way contract and he wouldn't be given a huge amount at the AHL level as part of that. More below.

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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Since you used the phrase "Let's put it this way", I'll lay it out for you. I never said he didn't get a shot or that he should be in the NHL.

Your second statement bothers me. You can't score 60 goals in the AHL and not be able to "finish". That may not translate to 30 goals in the NHL, but playing 8-10 minute a night I bet it translates to over 10. I also hate the lazy "He doesn't have NHL talent" line.

I'll just have to watch what happens in camp. If he's not a good skater that will be obvious in camp (that would be a very good reason). I have my own thoughts forming on what the issue is. I'll see if that's the case in camp.
I haven't seen Giroux play in over a calendar year, but I highly doubt that he or his game has changed much since then.

At the time, he wasn't a guy who could use speed or moves to create space. He's basically effective between the middle of the faceoff dots and on to the backboards; outside of that box, he's not much of anything. He has a highly accurate shot, but he always seems to want it to feel right, so he'll take the time to settle the puck if it's not exactly how he wants it. He has good moves in tight spaces at low speeds (within that box). He's not consistent behind or beside the net, so he may make a hit to swipe the puck for a quick setup, but he might also veer away if it involves the possibility of contact.

There's nothing wrong with someone who makes their living in that box. Muckers like Tomas Holmstrom and Tim Kerr have had very good careers doing it, and guys like Phil Esposito have set records and gone to the HHOF by doing it. But in the NHL, where pretty much every defenseman can move laterally and recover very quickly, it's a much different story than turning an AHL prospect inside-out and roofing a shot. The moves and the puck play don't translate well. If every NHL defenseman covered ground in the defensive zone like an injured (by which I mean "incapacitated") Anton Stralman, Giroux would score 40 with ease. Unfortunately, it's not the case.

Most teams like to have versatile third- and fourth-liners. If they can't score (as most can't), they can forecheck or provide energy or suffocate defensively. For someone who might be good for 10 goals and 30 points in a full season in the NHL, he needs a more well-rounded game.

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07-05-2011, 04:04 PM
  #60
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Much better analysis. Thanks Palinka.

He said in an article he can get paid more over seas, but wants a real shot at the NHL level. If we've already decided he's AHL only (325 is a lot to the Jackets, but he can probably get more over seas), then all we're doing is paying some lip service.

I'm getting the feeling there was some communication issues in his development, in regards to expectations for example. Either by him, his team(s), or both.

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07-05-2011, 04:56 PM
  #61
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Keeping an open mind here, I hope that the Scott's decided

that Giroux is a guy that can play in Arny's system. I am looking for an over achiever in the Union blue. We have seen multiple versions of players that are missing a facet to their games, i.e. Chimera's lack of an accurate shot, Filatov's inability to stop floating around the dots. I would love to say guys like Calvert, Atkinson and Giroux actually just needed a chance to make it.

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