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[MIN/SJS] Minnesota trades Martin Havlat to San Jose for Dany Heatley

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:33 PM
  #951
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Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
I wish we could flash back to yesterday before this trade happened to hear the opinions of both fan bases regarding our new players. (Minn's view of Heatley, SJ's view of Havlat).

But I will say this - Wild fans, the majority of you don't know Dany Heatley. You just don't. You see stats and you read posts on HF boards. The fact that you're ignoring many of the knowledgable Sharks fans who are giving you opinions is beyond me. I wanted to really like Heater, but he's a one dimensional player who's on the decline. You can't compare him to Thornton. Jumbo is FAR from one dimensional.

Just sayin'.
Oh the irony.

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:34 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
30-35 from each of them would be great for us (yes, we are starved for goals). I don't think that is out of the question for either of them.
True. Both of them had to fight for 1st line/PP ice-time here so there's a good chance they could be big stars for you guys.

The mistake a lot of us sharks fans made when heatley first came here was expecting thornton-heater to be like thornton-cheechoo was in 05-06(and why not? cheechoo was basically a guy less talented than heatley who's one trick was a good shot, who struck gold next to a great passer).

Idk call it chemistry, lack of speed, or joe simply having another 35+ goalscorer on the other wing to take some of the gift-wrapped goals from heatley, he just didn't impress me like I thought.

We just ignored the talk from sens fans about him being a one-dimensional "floater" and hoped for magic between him and joe especially come playoff time. It never happened, shut down joe and you shut down the whole top line, playoff injuries making him even more useless, ect.

You guys are the perfect team for him to go to because making the playoffs is a feat in itself. Heatley and seto will definitely help get you there and koivu will really emerge with some goalscorers to pass to as well. (heatley's passing abilities will surprise you too, koivu should be 25-30g because of that). That's of course without knowing how the forwards will be effected by not having burn's wicked shot from the point.

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:37 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons View Post
Oh the irony.
I know. Most Wild fans were indifferent about Havlat and think he could easily be replaceable.

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07-04-2011, 05:40 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by Tealblood View Post
True. Both of them had to fight for 1st line/PP ice-time here so there's a good chance they could be big stars for you guys.

The mistake a lot of us sharks fans made when heatley first came here was expecting thornton-heater to be like thornton-cheechoo was in 05-06(and why not? cheechoo was basically a guy less talented than heatley who's one trick was a good shot, who struck gold next to a great passer).

Idk call it chemistry, lack of speed, or joe simply having another 35+ goalscorer on the other wing to take some of the gift-wrapped goals from heatley, he just didn't impress me like I thought.

We just ignored the talk from sens fans about him being a one-dimensional "floater" and hoped for magic between him and joe especially come playoff time. It never happened, shut down joe and you shut down the whole top line, playoff injuries making him even more useless, ect.

You guys are the perfect team for him to go to because making the playoffs is a feat in itself. Heatley and seto will definitely help get you there and koivu will really emerge with some goalscorers to pass to as well. (heatley's passing abilities will surprise you too, koivu should be 25-30g because of that). That's of course without knowing how the forwards will be effected by not having burn's wicked shot from the point.
That's the biggest hope. We've had the '3rd line wingers' excuse for him for the last 2 years, and it was getting old.

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:43 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
30-35 from each of them would be great for us (yes, we are starved for goals). I don't think that is out of the question for either of them.
55 goals is a pretty reasonable expectation I think.

20+ for Seto, 30+ for Heatley, hopefully adds up to 55 or more. If you get 65 off 30+35 each that would be pretty impressive.

For the Sharks, I think we should expect 25+ from Havlat, playing on a mix of 1st/2nd lines and PP units.

Heatley should outscore Havlat by 10-15 (75 v 60-65) in total, but at 2.5m less this trade still seems a "win" for both teams, given their needs.

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:47 PM
  #956
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As a Sens fan, I'll say this about Dany Heatley; When he's interested and playing the brand of hockey that *he* likes, he is an incredible talent. That puck does not stay on his stick for long and he can rip it as good as anyone in the league.

Take Ottawa's cup run in 07 as a perfect example. He became a player that would back check and score goals. He bought into the system and became a 2-time 50 goal player.

Speed was never Heatley's game so as long as there is someone there to hold his hand and feed him passes in the slot, he will be a very good hockey player in Minnesota. Probably a good thing Lemaire is no longer there however.

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Old
07-04-2011, 05:48 PM
  #957
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BTW as a Wild fan...when you have Brunette on your first line, Heatley looks like Gaborik :p

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07-04-2011, 05:54 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Well, to me it seems that most of the well thought-out posts from SJ fans regarding Heatley were in his defense, especially those that posted on our team board. And it goes both ways. I've seen a few SJ fans talk up Havlat's defense, which is pretty funny.
Here's the thing. If you look at posts we made before any of the trades went down, you will find that we all thought his contract was awful and we would have loved to move him for any asset. In fact we all thought his contract was essentially untradable, and if you ask anyone on the main boards, they would have said the same. So this isn't at all "oh heater is no longer a shark, time to rag on him!"

I liked heater a lot, in fact i was the only guy in our forums who wore his avatar the entire season. But fact is, for 7.5 mil of precious cap space, he was pretty disappointing, and he really is a slow skater. He was AWFUL in the playoffs too, yeah he had ankle and hand issues, but he just wasn't productive at all. He did try, but he's a slow skater and got exposed big time against vancouver. Heater has the potential to be a great goal scorer, but he has a lot of deficiencies that make it hard to play him on a team with cup aspirations. He is just bad at back checking, and his defensive zone coverage is suspect at best. He turns over the puck a LOT. Against a top playoff team like van or LA or detroit, these types of deficiencies come back and kill you. And 7.5 mil means you have that much less to spend on other areas. If you don't have such aspirations though, like minn doesn't, then i think his offensive dominance will be super useful. And minn is far from cap so his 7.5 hit isn't even important.

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:01 PM
  #959
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Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
BTW as a Wild fan...when you have Brunette on your first line, Heatley looks like Gaborik :p
Fewer goals/less speed but you don't have to worry about him breaking like glass either. Like I said this is a good move for you guys because he'll be a top scorer you guys need, no matter what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGoSharks View Post
55 goals is a pretty reasonable expectation I think.

20+ for Seto, 30+ for Heatley, hopefully adds up to 55 or more. If you get 65 off 30+35 each that would be pretty impressive.

For the Sharks, I think we should expect 25+ from Havlat, playing on a mix of 1st/2nd lines and PP units.

Heatley should outscore Havlat by 10-15 (75 v 60-65) in total, but at 2.5m less this trade still seems a "win" for both teams, given their needs.
Yeah that's a reasonable expectation.

As for havlat, I really don't care if he's just a 20 goal scorer, to me whether or not the sharks "win" the trade is based solely on how he plays in the postseason. I love his goal-per-game average in the playoffs, but it's been a few years since he's been there and you never know based solely on history who's going to step it up any given year.

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:01 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by GoGoSharks View Post
Heatley should outscore Havlat by 10-15 (75 v 60-65) in total, but at 2.5m less this trade still seems a "win" for both teams, given their needs.
Except Heatley is not gonna outscore Havlat if they play the same amount of games i.e. Havlat is not injured.

Havlat brings a heck of a lot more to the table since he can create for himself, create plays for others, and has BREAKAWAY speed.

He is a better player than Heatley period.

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:02 PM
  #961
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Want to send my best to a great teammate and friend Dany Heatley. Had a blast playing with you.
http://twitter.com/#!/ryaneclowe29/s...19748364877827

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:03 PM
  #962
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Originally Posted by thespeckledkiwi View Post
BTW as a Wild fan...when you have Brunette on your first line, Heatley looks like Gaborik :p
couldnt have said it better myself

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:05 PM
  #963
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Except Heatley is not gonna outscore Havlat if they play the same amount of games i.e. Havlat is not injured.

Havlat brings a heck of a lot more to the table since he can create for himself, create plays for others, and has BREAKAWAY speed.

He is a better player than Heatley period.
See, this is what we DIDN'T see over here at Minnesota. He might have done that in Chicago, but over in Minnesota, it was non-existent. He would put up points but in the most non-noticeable way (which is good or bad, whichever way you want to argue for)

We didn't see any of this individual talent. This breakaway speed or 1-on-1 ability you are describing

In addition, he had no chmestry with any Wild players, making it hard to find a place for him. In fact, the only player he did have chemistry with was Kyle Brodziak who is a very good 3rd line checker.

EDIT: Not saying he is not a good player, but we just didn't see any notion of him creating plays himself and capitalizing on it. He would put up points, just not as flashy or as dynamic as you describe it

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:16 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
See, this is what we DIDN'T see over here at Minnesota. He might have done that in Chicago, but over in Minnesota, it was non-existent. He would put up points but in the most non-noticeable way (which is good or bad, whichever way you want to argue for)

We didn't see any of this individual talent. This breakaway speed or 1-on-1 ability you are describing

In addition, he had no chmestry with any Wild players, making it hard to find a place for him. In fact, the only player he did have chemistry with was Kyle Brodziak who is a very good 3rd line checker.
What I've heard is that he just wasn't as motivated knowing you guys had little chance of making the playoffs(especially the 2nd half of the season). I know athletes shouldn't have that excuse, you get paid 5m how are you unmotivated? lol, but I see examples of it all over the place where guys simply play "better" on talent filled teams that are pretty much a lock to have a good chance every year, and havlat was quoted saying he basically lives for the playoffs.

Could lack of chemistry simply be- lack of scorers(havlat's passing abilities are a part of his game), lack of talent surrounding him in general? You guys had bouchard, koivu, and havlat, all passers, mixed with "scorers" who wouldn't crack the top lines on most teams- miettinen, brunette, ect.

Anyway, we'll have to see but hopefully he can click with our top 6.

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07-04-2011, 06:17 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
See, this is what we DIDN'T see over here at Minnesota. He might have done that in Chicago, but over in Minnesota, it was non-existent. He would put up points but in the most non-noticeable way (which is good or bad, whichever way you want to argue for)

We didn't see any of this individual talent. This breakaway speed or 1-on-1 ability you are describing

In addition, he had no chmestry with any Wild players, making it hard to find a place for him. In fact, the only player he did have chemistry with was Kyle Brodziak who is a very good 3rd line checker.

EDIT: Not saying he is not a good player, but we just didn't see any notion of him creating plays himself and capitalizing on it. He would put up points, just not as flashy or as dynamic as you describe it
Some players, especially higher paid ones, have trouble manufacturing effort when they play on a team that is out of it. I don't know if that was Havlat's case in Minnesota, but I can remember him in his Sens days being one fast mofo.

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07-04-2011, 06:17 PM
  #966
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I'm confused about the NMC. Why did he have to waive for Ottawa to trade him, but had a limited NMC when the Sharks traded him?

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07-04-2011, 06:18 PM
  #967
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You guys in Minny will enjoy Heatley putting his 8 feet long arms in the air like a monkey whenever someone scores.

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07-04-2011, 06:25 PM
  #968
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I'm confused about the NMC. Why did he have to waive for Ottawa to trade him, but had a limited NMC when the Sharks traded him?
10 teams he doesn't want to go to. That's what his NMC consists of.

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07-04-2011, 06:25 PM
  #969
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You guys in Minny will enjoy Heatley putting his 8 feet long arms in the air like a monkey whenever someone scores.


He does have the awkward body type of an orangutan...whether that is a good thing or a bad thing as a hockey player is another matter.

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07-04-2011, 06:31 PM
  #970
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Originally Posted by Thrillingbroom View Post
I'm confused about the NMC. Why did he have to waive for Ottawa to trade him, but had a limited NMC when the Sharks traded him?
Some players start to get "windows" of limited nmc(10 teams he doesn't want to go to) as the contract goes on. So one of those windows started july 1 and probably went till august for the sharks to deal him if they wanted.

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07-04-2011, 06:33 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
I wish we could flash back to yesterday before this trade happened to hear the opinions of both fan bases regarding our new players. (Minn's view of Heatley, SJ's view of Havlat).

But I will say this - Wild fans, the majority of you don't know Dany Heatley. You just don't. You see stats and you read posts on HF boards. The fact that you're ignoring many of the knowledgable Sharks fans who are giving you opinions is beyond me. I wanted to really like Heater, but he's a one dimensional player who's on the decline. You can't compare him to Thornton. Jumbo is FAR from one dimensional.

Just sayin'.
really couldnt be said any better, heater is a terrible hockey player and i like the guy personally

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:36 PM
  #972
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And Sharks fans called us bitter when we said he would be out of SJ in 3 years tops.

Its funny, Atlanta fans warned us and we ignored it saying they were bitter. We warned SJ fans and they did the same. Now he is Minnys problem.

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07-04-2011, 06:38 PM
  #973
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See, this is what we DIDN'T see over here at Minnesota. He might have done that in Chicago, but over in Minnesota, it was non-existent. He would put up points but in the most non-noticeable way (which is good or bad, whichever way you want to argue for)

We didn't see any of this individual talent. This breakaway speed or 1-on-1 ability you are describing

In addition, he had no chemistry with any Wild players, making it hard to find a place for him. In fact, the only player he did have chemistry with was Kyle Brodziak who is a very good 3rd line checker.
We saw it. He showed us a lot of speed, creativity, and scoring chances. It just wasn't quite as prolific as Wild fans were hoping for.

And no chemistry? How about single-handedly turning Latendresse and Brodziak into goal scorers?

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Old
07-04-2011, 06:40 PM
  #974
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Some players start to get "windows" of limited nmc(10 teams he doesn't want to go to) as the contract goes on. So one of those windows started july 1 and probably went till august for the sharks to deal him if they wanted.
Yeah I knew some player have windows after July 1st but I guess Heatley didn't have a window till the 2nd year of his contract?

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07-04-2011, 06:55 PM
  #975
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Really excited for the season to start to watch Havlat with the Sharks. Anybody think he will play with Patrick Marleau? I can see him setting up Marleau on a regular basis and feeding him goals throughout the season. Then again, Thornton can probably do the same thing. But I see him and Marleau playing well together.

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