Ask Nashville fans and they'll tell you the same thing. At worst they're both top-5 (Weber, Suter, Keith are all firmly in the top-5. Lidstrom retires soon, and Pronger/Chara will begin to lose a step soon.)
Either way, they are the best defense pairing in the league, and It's not close.
It should be said that the 2012 looks about 13 top prospects deep right now, and trading a potential top-10 pick this year borders on insanity.
True. I guess what I'm saying though is whats the chances we might end up with another pick that is good but not great like Gags. Eventually if the oppurtunity comes to swap for a talent like Yandle or Bogo, you do it cause at least they are young/proven, to move ahead with contending.
Why so high on Bogosian? If he was an Oilers' player it would quickly be pointed out, and hammered home daily, that he has regressed every year hes been in the league!
One top draft pick defenceman reclamation project at a time please.
Also, interesting to see how Franson works out because 'some' had us giving up considerable assets to acquire him. Truth, if we would have been willing to take on Lombardi's contract we could have picked him up for a song. Actually, less than a song.
i know alot of dmen who prefer to play their offside, for a right handed shot it is easier to stick check to your left side as your top hand is on it.
obviously its a preference thing
That's very true, though I'd say your stick-check point is more an argument as to why a RHS should be playing RD not the other way around.
But you're right that it's a preference, but my point was that Whitney and Barker are both LD, and Gilbert and Bogosian are both RD. Whether it's their preference, where they're most effective, or the fact that they can't play the other is really beside the point. Those are their positions.
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If you are offended by this post, it's probably because you're ugly.
Most LWers shoot left, because it's easier to protect the puck on your side. But some (like Alex Ovechkin) shoot right, and have a much bigger portion of the net to pick from because of it.
A Hickey went 4th that same year, maybe the Kings can trade him for Larsson or Evander Kane??
I would happily trade Gagner for a pick in the 7-15 range next year.
I also said we would have to add a prospect with gags. I don't care what L.A would do with Hickey. Look what TO did to get Fransen. You never know unless you try. Which it sounds like Tambo's been doing anyhow.
Ask Nashville fans and they'll tell you the same thing. At worst they're both top-5 (Weber, Suter, Keith are all firmly in the top-5. Lidstrom retires soon, and Pronger/Chara will begin to lose a step soon.)
I look at defensemen stats and does it ever seem like there is a lack of top end talent right now, and less so once Lidstrom and Pronger retire (and Chara beyond that).
It really speaks to how long it takes a number 1 all-star D to find that level.
Beyond those 3 - Doughty, Suter, Weber, Boyle, Seabrook, Keith, Green, Yandle... it just seems there is a significant lacking thereafter.
You find one you better keep him (Suter/Weber). That's where I'd be spending my $ right now.
Most LWers shoot left, because it's easier to protect the puck on your side. But some (like Alex Ovechkin) shoot right, and have a much bigger portion of the net to pick from because of it.
Erik Cole shoots right, but can't play the left side because his game is all about puck protection and power skating.
Tough to make a point using a completely wrong comparison. Cole is a lefty, and manages to use his puck protection and power skating just fine on his off wing. In fact, when he played here, he was much more effective on the right side.
Add picks/filler on either side to even it out, if required. Oilers would probably only consumate if Stamkos signed long-term.
It's a fair deal, but it's still insane to deal away a first round draft pick when you're coming off a thirtieth place finish. You're really banking on an incredibly dramatic improvement.
It's a fair deal, but it's still insane to deal away a first round draft pick when you're coming off a thirtieth place finish. You're really banking on an incredibly dramatic improvement.
When you're getting a top 5-10 player in the league, I don't think the draft pick matters too much. However adding a former 1st overall and Hemsky I think is an overpay when you consider that Tampa is not trading from a position of strength. MPS instead of RNH and I would do that. I'm sure Tampa fans would hate that but I think that is a realistic trade.
Tough to make a point using a completely wrong comparison.
Mistake on my part, but my point remains. He tucks and drives the net and his game is all about puck protection and power skating. That it's actually his off-wing doesn't change the point that the preference is all about how you play the game.
It's a fair deal, but it's still insane to deal away a first round draft pick when you're coming off a thirtieth place finish. You're really banking on an incredibly dramatic improvement.
Well, gotta give to get, I guess. And I don't think the improvement has to be dramatic to make it worthwhile. While they'll likely miss the dance, I don't see the Oil being a lottery team next year. Picks in the 8-12 range (where I see them ending up) are little more than magic beans. If you can convert them into a proven, elite #1C, I think you do the deal every day of the week.
It's a fair deal, but it's still insane to deal away a first round draft pick when you're coming off a thirtieth place finish. You're really banking on an incredibly dramatic improvement.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think that's an overpayment and a risk on Tampa's part. Stamkos is a bona fide, elite number one C. They'd be getting back a potential number one, a talented but injury prone player, and a first round question mark.
Mistake on my part, but my point remains. He tucks and drives the net and his game is all about puck protection and power skating. That it's actually his off-wing doesn't change the point that the preference is all about how you play the game.
It doesn't matter what style a player plays, some guys just prefer a certain position. Easy.
Here is my trade proposal: Next years first plus Gilbert for Yandle. Would they do it? Would we?
Yandle had one great year and we give up a first and gilbert for an unproven over the hill prospect, no thanks. What's the love with Yandle on this board? At best, he might be a Mike Green.
If we're giving away a first, it better be at least a Byfgulien coming back the other way or someone who's got a cup ring and a difference maker.
Add picks/filler on either side to even it out, if required. Oilers would probably only consumate if Stamkos signed long-term.
Interesting deal. But I think it's an overpay.
If Penner is worth a 1st, then Hemsky is likely as well.
So we're trading a 1st overall, a 1st in 2012 and a warm body that could likely return a 1st round pick in 2012 as well.
For that we are receiving a former 1st overall who will command $7-10M per year plus a 2nd rounder, granted he is an all-star.
If RNH's ceiling is as good as we're hearing, and 2012's crop is 15 deep, it's a pretty steep price.
I don't think it works for either club TBH.
RNH is local and being from Red Deer for hockey is a huge plus.
Stamkos is far more developed and fits in Tampa Bay's win-now mode (see signing of Roloson/Garon/Brewer).
I would love to pry Stamkos away, but IMO RNH is a non-starter for this team. If you want to pry Stamkos away it will have to be Hemsky+2012 1st+lesser prospect (Gagner) or yes, the offer sheet.
Add picks/filler on either side to even it out, if required. Oilers would probably only consumate if Stamkos signed long-term.
Stamkos benefited from leeching off St. Louis. We could possibly tank if we got Stamkos because nobody's here for him to leech from. He's not ready to be the go-to guy on the top line without any support.
Yandle had one great year and we give up a first and gilbert for an unproven over the hill prospect, no thanks. What's the love with Yandle on this board? At best, he might be a Mike Green.
If we're giving away a first, it better be at least a Byfgulien coming back the other way or someone who's got a cup ring and a difference maker.
Haha, no go on Yandle, but full wood for Byfuglien! Big Buff had a good playoff run (as a forward)on a cup winning team, then has a great half year as a defenseman and he is a difference maker?
When you're getting a top 5-10 player in the league, I don't think the draft pick matters too much. However adding a former 1st overall and Hemsky I think is an overpay when you consider that Tampa is not trading from a position of strength. MPS instead of RNH and I would do that. I'm sure Tampa fans would hate that but I think that is a realistic trade.
Agreed that Tampa isn't technically trading from a position of strength, but considering it's Stamkos on the block, I think it's a moot point. All that matter is what other teams would be willing to offer. With RNH included I think there's enough potential & real proven talent to catch StevieY's eye. I think that other teams can put together a better offer if we were to substitute MPS. With RNH included, I think the deal is very close to that sweet spot where it is roughly equal value, doesn't gut the Oilers and arguably superior to what other teams would offer.
If Penner is worth a 1st, then Hemsky is likely as well.
So we're trading a 1st overall, a 1st in 2012 and a warm body that could likely return a 1st round pick in 2012 as well.
For that we are receiving a former 1st overall who will command $7-10M per year plus a 2nd rounder, granted he is an all-star.
If RNH's ceiling is as good as we're hearing, and 2012's crop is 15 deep, it's a pretty steep price.
I don't think it works for either club TBH.
RNH is local and being from Red Deer for hockey is a huge plus.
Stamkos is far more developed and fits in Tampa Bay's win-now mode (see signing of Roloson/Garon/Brewer).
I would love to pry Stamkos away, but IMO RNH is a non-starter for this team. If you want to pry Stamkos away it will have to be Hemsky+2012 1st+lesser prospect (Gagner) or yes, the offer sheet.
No real agruments, except for the fact that I guess I place a far lower value on draft picks than you do. I tend to be a pragmatist when it comes to potential vs. proven performance (bird in the hand, magic beans and all that). In fact, I could see TB rejecting the deal for that exact reason - not enough substance offered in exchange for a proven, elite commodity. From the Oilers' perspective, I truly hope that they would not turn down an opportunity to acquire a young, proven, elite #1C, just because there might (key word) be something good coming down the pipe a year or two or three from now. Gotta strike when the iron is hot - especially when it comes to acquiring a true #1 C - something the Oil haven't had since Weight Messier left
