The knock on Parenteau is that he isn't a first round draft pick.
Haha, very true. Like it or not, he's going to playing on the first line just like last year. We can pick him apart and whine about it all day, but it's not going to change the situation.
Parenteau is a terrible skater. It's not for lack of trying, but look at how many strides it takes him to get anywhere. It's not pretty and it expends too much energy. He can get to a decent top speed, but it's about 10 strides later and he is unstable on his skates at best. That said, the effort to get from point A to point B is there (and that can't be said for every player.) Compare Parenteau to JT and see how quickly John Tavares gets his speed up in two quick strides, or how well John Tavares pivots and reverses direction. John Tavares may not have top-end speed, but he's far more secure on his skates and has a more powerful stride. And, as many have pointed out, skating is supposed to be a weakness for JT. What does that say about having PAP on his line?
No offense to some in this thread, but PAP is hockey retarded. I consider hockey IQ to be how aware a player is on the ice and how they can use this awareness to their benefit.
There's a difference between being capable of passing to another player tape-to-tape (passing ability) and actually knowing when to do so (offensive awareness). Overall hockey IQ is having the intelligence to know when to make a play, why to make a play, and seeing a play develop (or not develop) in advance.
PA Parenteau does not display any of the above. He skates around in circles in the offensive zone. He has OK vision when he is looking at the right place at the right time. This is why, at times, he can make a good pass, but his lack of hockey IQ is why he often holds onto the puck for too long and consistently makes the same exact types of plays - skating in circles, running into the lanes of other players, constantly backhanding the puck back to the point as the only option if a shot isn't there - all signs of weak hockey IQ.
Some may think that this player is being picked on because of his role on the team. Yes, he is being picked on because he does not display the ability that we would like to see next to our franchise center. Some of us also feel that PAP's lack of hockey sense and poor skating are a drag on the overall effectiveness of our first line.
Personally, the worst part of the Tavares line is that they're brutal in their own zone because John Tavares is the best skater on the line even though that is considered one of the flaws in his game. PAP is also gassed by the time they get back to their own zone and he often gets off while skating back. I don't need to tell all of you this, but that really ****s up defensive zone coverage and places a lot of pressure on the guy coming onto the ice. Some might point to PAP's "better" +/- and consider him a better defensive player than Tavares or Moulson, that would be a huge mistake. Try to count the times that Tavares and Moulson are left on the ice and PAP gets off because he's the last to leave the zone.
PAP will never be anything other than a complementary forward. He can finish from in close (also a flaw of the Moulson-JT-PAP line, as they all mostly finish from in close.) He's not afraid to take the body. He tries hard enough to get to places. He can make a decent pass, though he'll often force too many plays, not because he fears the incoming impact, but because he holds the ****ing puck for too long. What I will give PAP absolute credit for is that as the season had gone on he tried to hold the puck less. Quite frankly, my hope is that he realizes that he isn't good with it on his stick for long. Still, that doesn't mean he's good for the Moulson-JT line. His flaws are more detrimental to the Moulson-JT line than they would be to any other (outside of our Konopka line prior to Haley coming up from last season.)
"Comeau scored 24 goals? MY GOD can we get Bryan McCabe back in a trades? He's A-W-F-U-L! And LOOK at that DRESS! My God! Seriously!"
If only he was a first and not a second.
Comeau is stronger than PAP is every physical category. Comeau has a stronger shot, hits harder, makes quicker (speed, not decision) passes that stay on the ice more often, has a much better skating stride and top speed.
You and I often debate on Comeau's compete level, and we rightfully question him perhaps being fatigued because he's overplayed. That said, unless we see him in a lesser role, we really can only guess about some of his poorer efforts being fatigue-related or effort-related.
Still, Comeau is just as likely as PAP to hold onto the puck for too long and skate willy-nilly into areas of the ice that he shouldn't be skating in. Both of these players suffer from holding onto the puck when the safer/simple play is the better play (read: get rid of it.) Both of these players give up the puck at either blue line because of their propensity to hold it.
What I'd really like to see is what Comeau would have done if he was glued onto the JT line for most of the season. If Comeau has all of the same brain flaws as PAP (and I believe he does), Comeau at least has physical attributes that make up for it and actually complement the JT line. He's not the ideal winger, but I'd be far more comfortable with Comeau up there. I think I've made it obvious that I'm not a big fan of Comeau's play because he needs to hold the puck less/simplify his game much as PAP needs to. However, Comeau has far greater abilities to work with if/when he can refine his game. Comeau could also stand to be the last cog on a veteran line at some point in his career (same as Bailey.)
Our lack of skilled veterans who can force our younger or complementary players into specific styles of play is something that holds our forwards back. Still, depending on how our lines shake out, we might end up with a good mix of players even if they aren't the most experienced. Comeau ends up with bigger or better forwards that should force him into his lane and Parenteau ends up in the bottom-6 with better skating linemates. Bailey ends up with more skilled players or players that play a consistent kind of game. Bailey should really not be playing with Comeau because of their consistency/style problems.
Comeau is stronger than PAP is every physical category. Comeau has a stronger shot, hits harder, makes quicker (speed, not decision) passes that stay on the ice more often, has a much better skating stride and top speed.
You and I often debate on Comeau's compete level, and we rightfully question him perhaps being fatigued because he's overplayed. That said, unless we see him in a lesser role, we really can only guess about some of his poorer efforts being fatigue-related or effort-related.
Still, Comeau is just as likely as PAP to hold onto the puck for too long and skate willy-nilly into areas of the ice that he shouldn't be skating in. Both of these players suffer from holding onto the puck when the safer/simple play is the better play (read: get rid of it.) Both of these players give up the puck at either blue line because of their propensity to hold it.
What I'd really like to see is what Comeau would have done if he was glued onto the JT line for most of the season. If Comeau has all of the same brain flaws as PAP (and I believe he does), Comeau at least has physical attributes that make up for it and actually complement the JT line. He's not the ideal winger, but I'd be far more comfortable with Comeau up there. I think I've made it obvious that I'm not a big fan of Comeau's play because he needs to hold the puck less/simplify his game much as PAP needs to. However, Comeau has far greater abilities to work with if/when he can refine his game. Comeau could also stand to be the last cog on a veteran line at some point in his career (same as Bailey.)
Our lack of skilled veterans who can force our younger or complementary players into specific styles of play is something that holds our forwards back. Still, depending on how our lines shake out, we might end up with a good mix of players even if they aren't the most experienced. Comeau ends up with bigger or better forwards that should force him into his lane and Parenteau ends up in the bottom-6 with better skating linemates. Bailey ends up with more skilled players or players that play a consistent kind of game. Bailey should really not be playing with Comeau because of their consistency/style problems.
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Mitch
(I hope you know my post was sarcastic)
I think Comeau is a growing kid who is learning. Now if he's learning, he either dumps the puck too early or waits too long because he's unsure. Seeing Blake (ironic name given J.Blake did the same thing) let it go earlier would mean his linemates have made it easier on him.
Now if we had a real top 6 vet for Bailey, Blake and Okposo.....we wouldn't be discussing this. but we have a cheap owner so we have to hope Bailey and Comeau work it out on their play - which I think complements one another - and I hate to be a rookie-phile but Niederreiter can be a help if he does well. He has size and can open up ice. Comeau can play in all three zones well but can be solid on the perimeter and given his ABILITY to hold onto the puck and move, Nino in the slot opens up a lot for he and Bailey.
So one would hope Bailey can grow a "sack" and drive hard, control the zone with Comeau and make things work. Of limited viewing, I think all three have good shots and passing.
I think it's just a case of the role evolving in his mind and once he fine tunes his game, he'll be more aware and quicker to pass contingent on better linemates and a far better defense on point.
I haven't been able to actually see him play, but points-wise, he didn't do too bad. He is definitely not 1st line material, but his stock is up..maybe he will be trade bait for a solid winger (package deal of course).
I know not many here are high on him....why is that..he must have SOME skill to score and get points?
IMO PAP had his points last year inspite of himself...I think just about any forward on the team could have produced (possibly better) with who PAP was skating with. For every goal he had, he missed 4-5 chances...and in the defensive zone you might as well have the PK unit out there cause thats what it looks like.
I think Comeau is a growing kid who is learning. Now if he's learning, he either dumps the puck too early or waits too long because he's unsure. Seeing Blake (ironic name given J.Blake did the same thing) let it go earlier would mean his linemates have made it easier on him.
Now if we had a real top 6 vet for Bailey, Blake and Okposo.....we wouldn't be discussing this. but we have a cheap owner so we have to hope Bailey and Comeau work it out on their play - which I think complements one another - and I hate to be a rookie-phile but Niederreiter can be a help if he does well. He has size and can open up ice. Comeau can play in all three zones well but can be solid on the perimeter and given his ABILITY to hold onto the puck and move, Nino in the slot opens up a lot for he and Bailey.
So one would hope Bailey can grow a "sack" and drive hard, control the zone with Comeau and make things work. Of limited viewing, I think all three have good shots and passing.
I think it's just a case of the role evolving in his mind and once he fine tunes his game, he'll be more aware and quicker to pass contingent on better linemates and a far better defense on point.
Oh I know you were being sarcastic, I just couldn't help but use it to point out the similarities.
I'm hopeful for this season even if we don't add at forward. Again, it will be yet another year where we missed the opportunity to fortify our lineup for the sake of our younger players, but I think that we'll have more talent throughout the lineup (even if it's unpolished.) Though we could easily have helped by adding consistent veteran players, Bailey will still end up playing with more talent and grit than he ever has before.
That said, I disagree about Bailey and Comeau complementing each other only because neither of them has shown to be consistent. Also, Comeau holding onto the puck for too long and being a bit random in where he is on the ice actually hurts Bailey's game. Bailey's hockey IQ is diminished when playing with players who are skating randomly around the ice. The fact that Bailey was able to find Comeau in so many different places is more of a testament to Bailey's vision than anything else. Bailey would be much better off with a more consistent player (a veteran who can also demand a specific type of play from Bailey sure couldn't hurt. Comeau actually could use the same type of player.)
Since we have so little experience at forward, I would build truly complementary lines that reduce our weaknesses at 5-on-5. Unfortunately, and many obviously disagree with me thinking this way, that means breaking up the Nielsen line.
No offense to some in this thread, but PAP is hockey retarded. I consider hockey IQ to be how aware a player is on the ice and how they can use this awareness to their benefit.
There's a difference between being capable of passing to another player tape-to-tape (passing ability) and actually knowing when to do so (offensive awareness). Overall hockey IQ is having the intelligence to know when to make a play, why to make a play, and seeing a play develop (or not develop) in advance.
I'd say this doesn't quite sum it up.
It's his physical inabilities, his decision-making at times, an ability to overthink a situation or underestimate an opponent as well as lack of consistancy once a few decisions don't pan out properly that often make him ineffective at times. Sometimes he just fails to execute - as in he sees the right play, but whifs on the puck or passes too softly. That's something that often comes as a side effect for those who have smooth hands.
He's otherwise an above-average intelligent offensive player. There a plenty of times he sees things in advance that the average player doesn't and sometimes executes them quite well. There was hardly a player on the team who, within his realm of capabilities, was as capable of reading a play and setting up shop in the offensive zone while possessing the puck.
I'm sure most scouts are not gonna say that his problems are located in having low hockey or on-ice IQ.
His problems are plenty, but they are generally elsewhere.
It's his physical inabilities, his decision-making at times, an ability to overthink a situation or underestimate an opponent as well as lack of consistancy once a few decisions don't pan out properly that often make him ineffective at times. Sometimes he just fails to execute - as in he sees the right play, but whifs on the puck or passes too softly. That's something that often comes as a side effect for those who have smooth hands.
He's otherwise an above-average intelligent offensive player. There a plenty of times he sees things in advance that the average player doesn't and sometimes executes them quite well. There was hardly a player on the team who, within his realm of capabilities, was as capable of reading a play and setting up shop in the offensive zone while possessing the puck.
I'm sure most scouts are not gonna say that his problems are located in having low hockey or on-ice IQ.
His problems are plenty, but they are generally elsewhere.
I would like to strongly disagree with the bolded part. Obviously, some people here disagree with your assessment of his intelligence while some may very well agree. The ability of players to make the right decision in a short amount of time relies on two different factors: 1.) Their overall knowledge of the game 2.) How quickly they can see plays unfold. Their ability to execute plays is a different animal.
There is nothing that PAP shows me that lends me to believe that he sees plays unfold quickly or that he has a complete knowledge of what to do and when. Coughing the puck up at the blueline or making a bad pass from just inside it doesn't show intelligence of the game. I'll argue that his passing ability is far greater than his ability to see where to pass. The reason why he is more effective on the power play is because he has more time to decide and less players to worry about...and he still makes rather poor decisions moving the puck to the less advantageous areas or a covered player.
I don't expect to convince you, but I think you're ignoring a lot of the substance of my posts on this subject. Also, the part that I was summing up was merely hockey IQ, not all of PAP's flaws which I did go into more detail. In fact, I've beaten PAP's pros and cons to death.
PAP scored 53 points in the NHL last year. Credit has to be given to him. I am willing to bet there were only 60-70 NHL players who had more points than PAP last year. Not a bad accomplishment at all for PAP.
He was given the chance to produce at the NHL level and he did. Not sure why most are looking at his faults instead of looking at his accomplishments this year. Granted, he is not a shiny first round pick but he has to be given some credit here.
Can he improve upon his season? Confidence is a big thing and he is still fairly young. It would not surprise me that he has an even better season or he just declines and he is never seen again after this year. It will be interesting to see what happens.
PAP scored 53 points in the NHL last year. Credit has to be given to him. I am willing to bet there were only 60-70 NHL players who had more points than PAP last year. Not a bad accomplishment at all for PAP.
He was given the chance to produce at the NHL level and he did. Not sure why most are looking at his faults instead of looking at his accomplishments this year. Granted, he is not a shiny first round pick but he has to be given some credit here.
Can he improve upon his season? Confidence is a big thing and he is still fairly young. It would not surprise me that he has an even better season or he just declines and he is never seen again after this year. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Ever see alex ponikarovsky's numbers when he played with mats sundin?
Is pap the first bad hockey player to produce good numbers?
A lottery team that is surrounded by teams trying everything they can to improve SHOULD BE upgrading . I suggest the top line is a great place to start.
Paranteau was given a chance and did well for himself. Doesn't mean it's what's best for the team.
If PAP is so bad, why havn't the Isles tried other players? Have they replaced him with another player? I think Baily would compliment JT on wing for sure. Yes, I know, Bailey hasn't had the best production last year, but we all know he does have what it takes to be a solid point producer. At least try for 10-20 games. To be successful, you have o play with successful players..just like to be successful in business..it doesn't hurt to surround yourself with successful business people. I can't see this go wrong..Tavares will help elevate his game and inturn increase his confidence which we all know when that happens, he will be on fire.
I would like to strongly disagree with the bolded part. Obviously, some people here disagree with your assessment of his intelligence while some may very well agree. The ability of players to make the right decision in a short amount of time relies on two different factors: 1.) Their overall knowledge of the game 2.) How quickly they can see plays unfold. Their ability to execute plays is a different animal.
Yep, I knew we'd have to strongly agree to disagree here when I saw your post above.
When it comes to this topic and my understanding of on-ice intelligence, I have to rely heavily on my first-hand knowldege of it as a player, and thus, from personal playing experience.
I've seen it a thousand times in players and have often been the subject of it myself.
A guy can be an incredibly intelligent on-ice player and have a high sense of positional understanding, awareness, offensive wherewithall, ability to see things in advance and tendency to create and YET still be subject to a number of fallacies, mistakes and give-aways. That problem lies in execution and physical/mental breakdowns. Those are not reflective of his hockey IQ.
My experience tells me that this is 100% the case for Parenteau.
In fact, I'm wondering how we've even come to debate this?
It's that IQ and those offensive instincts that wracked up the points in juniors and the AHL and even got him here in the first place, because he lacks in so many other departments.
Here we're practically picking on the one thing the guy has.
Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 07-06-2011 at 05:50 AM.
If PAP is so bad, why havn't the Isles tried other players? Have they replaced him with another player?
Because it's not the team, but instead the armchair GMs that know better.
Obviously!
For all we know, Tavares himself kindly informed Jack that he most enjoys playing with Moulson and PAP and feels he's got the best chemistry with the two of them.
But I do think the Isles have decided, after having used Bailey a number of times on the wing - granted, not Tavares' - that they ultimately want him being a center.
For all we know, Tavares himself kindly informed Jack that he most enjoys playing with Moulson and PAP and feels he's got the best chemistry with the two of them.
I'm more inclined to go with it being a matter of Capuano being an awful strategic coach. There were five stretches of three games or four games where Parenteau had zero points, and in four of those five stretches he was a minus player. Yet Capuano never tried anything different. At the very least, you switch lines up in-game to try to spark something, but Capuano has been awful at making in-game adjustments.
A guy can be an incredibly intelligent on-ice player and have a high sense of positional understanding, awareness, offensive wherewithall, ability to see things in advance and tendency to create and YET still be subject to a number of fallacies, mistakes and give-aways. That problem lies in execution and physical/mental breakdowns. Those are not reflective of his hockey IQ.
Obviously, I'm relying on my own first-hand knowledge of the subject. I don't think we should get into a pissing match on who has the greater hockey knowledge.
I'm sorry, but I think of our intelligent forwards and I think of Tavares, Nielsen, and Okposo. Those are guys who go to the right side of the puck and understand where to place themselves. PAP is not that kind of player. He doesn't play a thinking game. PAP put up numbers before he got to the AHL because his skating is enough to get by there and his abilities are very good for the AHL level.
Mistakes and giveaways are either from a lack of intelligence or a lack of the ability to perform under pressure, or skill to perform at all. I don't think PAP succumbs to the pressure of the game, I disagree that he lacks offensive skills as I think he has an OK shot from in close and he can actually pass, so you can see where I'm leaning towards. As far as I'm concerned, it's more likely that a player doesn't see the game well, or lacks in an understanding of the game, when he consistently makes the same kind of errors or holds onto the puck for too long/coughs it up in bad areas of the ice. PAP also consistently puts himself out of position and runs into his own players. I don't see how this shows offensive intelligence.
Obviously, I'm not going to convince you of anything as your mind is made up on the subject. Obviously, the same can be said for myself. You can have the last word if you wish, but I'm not sure why you would waste your time on trying to convince me any further. (Of course, you probably would do it for the same reason why I bothered to type this out, hehe.)
I think the real knock on Parenteau, more than anything, is that he is indicative of where we are as a franchise. Some people are displeased by the idea of having a stop gap on the first line, and therefore are understandably upset by watching his play. He's ultimately a limited player. He's neither strong or fast enough to be a true impact player. He does have talent, and his vision of the ice really isn't as bad as some make out. Because he is overmatched physically, and not positionally strong enough to compensate for that, to get his points he frequently forces high risk plays that lead to turnovers. He also loses puck battles and is a poor puck retriever, which are things no one wants to see on Tavares' wing.
On the other hand, from the halfboards, he can contribute offensively, and he's the best righty playmaker the team has right now. Tavares and Moulson need a righty playmaker (especially on the PP) so that's why he gets the minutes he does. Now, most people want to see that upgraded, and I don't blame them one bit. I suspect the plan is to upgrade that position from within (the drafting of Strome seems to strongly indicate that), which makes a stopgap like him necessary until that replacement is suitably groomed. And given what seems to be available, there really aren't any major improvements available in terms of players who are better right now, and especially not without making rather longterm commitments. So personally, I'm OK with him on the team for now. But when the team is ready to compete, I don't see a place for him here.
I think the reason people hate him is because he is symbolic of how this team isn't quite ready to be true contenders yet. I do think it's possible to make the playoffs with him in the top six, especially when you look at how thin most top sixes are these days. But unless Tavares hits that Crosby/Sedins level of both improving his linemates and not needing them to help him, we absolutely need a better player than he has so far shown to be in his position to make any real run in the playoffs.
I'm more inclined to go with it being a matter of Capuano being an awful strategic coach. There were five stretches of three games or four games where Parenteau had zero points, and in four of those five stretches he was a minus player. Yet Capuano never tried anything different. At the very least, you switch lines up in-game to try to spark something, but Capuano has been awful at making in-game adjustments.
I actually think Capuano isn't a bad bench coach at all. Even though I disagree on PAP's intelligence, I actually think the players on JT's line don't mind playing with each other...my guess is that they all like each other on a personal level. PAP does seem like he's having fun out there and that can be infectious.
I agree with you on the part that coaches should be able to mix things up when they're not working, but I would imagine it's the happiness of his franchise center and team chemistry that is also coming into play. Plus, I'm fairly sure that Captain Jack may not see PAP as capable of being as useful anywhere else.
I will say one thing, the team sure didn't sign PAP like he was an important cog of this team. Something tells me that the actual GM isn't quite sold on him either.
I think the real knock on Parenteau, more than anything, is that he is indicative of where we are as a franchise. Some people are displeased by the idea of having a stop gap on the first line, and therefore are understandably upset by watching his play. He's ultimately a limited player. He's neither strong or fast enough to be a true impact player. He does have talent, and his vision of the ice really isn't as bad as some make out. Because he is overmatched physically, and not positionally strong enough to compensate for that, to get his points he frequently forces high risk plays that lead to turnovers. He also loses puck battles and is a poor puck retriever, which are things no one wants to see on Tavares' wing.
On the other hand, from the halfboards, he can contribute offensively, and he's the best righty playmaker the team has right now. Tavares and Moulson need a righty playmaker (especially on the PP) so that's why he gets the minutes he does. Now, most people want to see that upgraded, and I don't blame them one bit. I suspect the plan is to upgrade that position from within (the drafting of Strome seems to strongly indicate that), which makes a stopgap like him necessary until that replacement is suitably groomed. And given what seems to be available, there really aren't any major improvements available in terms of players who are better right now, and especially not without making rather longterm commitments. So personally, I'm OK with him on the team for now. But when the team is ready to compete, I don't see a place for him here.
I think the reason people hate him is because he is symbolic of how this team isn't quite ready to be true contenders yet. I do think it's possible to make the playoffs with him in the top six, especially when you look at how thin most top sixes are these days. But unless Tavares hits that Crosby/Sedins level of both improving his linemates and not needing them to help him, we absolutely need a better player than he has so far shown to be in his position to make any real run in the playoffs.
I mostly agree with you here, Seph, but I think PAP's playingmaking abilities are limited to when he has enough time and is facing the play. Even then, his play selection is often very questionable even with time.
I think his skating holds him back more than his brain, but not by much. PAP has zero anticipation and constantly does the same things for offense on 5-on-5. He circles on his right side without the puck looking for a one-timer or he backhands the puck back to the point more often than not when he's in possession. It's only on rare occasions where he would feed a pass over to JT or Moulson (while not on the PP, where he actually tends to end up on the LEFT side facing the play while standing still.)
I don't feel like breaking down his assists again like I did last season, but many of them for the first half of the season came from passing the puck back to Wiz who would put it on net. I think PAP improved some by the end of the season only because he was simplifying his game and holding the puck LESS.
Quite frankly, I'd rather have Comeau up on JT's wing because he actually can fire the puck with authority from further out, and if both players (PAP & Comeau) are going to hold onto the puck for too long, at least Comeau can skate and is physically stronger. (I think this should say something as most know I'm not a huge fan of Comeau.) I'm really looking forward to a player like Strome maturing and getting here. And yes, through all of my hate, I realize that PAP is a suitable stopgap, but I don't see how anyone can be "happy" with him being next to JT.
Because it's not the team, but instead the armchair GMs that know better.
Obviously!
For all we know, Tavares himself kindly informed Jack that he most enjoys playing with Moulson and PAP and feels he's got the best chemistry with the two of them.
But I do think the Isles have decided, after having used Bailey a number of times on the wing - granted, not Tavares' - that they ultimately want him being a center.
I think a lot of PAP being on the first line may have had to do with Okposo's injury to start the year. If Kyle doesn't go down, he may have at least started the season with JT and Moulson. Of course if there was no chemistry there, PAP may have wound up on the first line anyway. But, I definitely don't think that was the original plan. By the time Kyle came back, the first line was already "clicking" somewhat and the team was starting to win consistently. Thus, Capuano was probably hesitant breaking up the first line and inserting Kyle into a situation that his body may not have been ready to handle right away (first line minutes).
That being said, perhaps they do experiment a bit in camp? While it seemed as if there was chemistry between all three players on the top two lines, I think it was really the chemistry of the center and one of the wings (Tavares/Moulson, Nielsen/Grabner) that led to their respective offensive output. Maybe we see a bit of juggling of Okposo, PAP and Comeau to try and increase the overall effectiveness of the lines?
I think it was really the chemistry of the center and one of the wings (Tavares/Moulson, Nielsen/Grabner) that led to their respective offensive output
Maybe. But, IMO, it's no coincidence that Grabner took off when Okposo came back and was inserted into that line.
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