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What's the issue Talbot's contract? Under investigation?

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Old
07-04-2011, 02:53 PM
  #1
DL44
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What's the issue Talbot's contract? Under investigation?

What's the structure of Talbot's contract with Philly?

Apparently it's under investigation?

Any further info on this, or is it being discussed elsewhere?


Edit:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=370862
Quote:
The status of Maxime Talbot's contract with the Philadelphia Flyers may be in question.

According to TSN's Gord Miller elements of the deal violate the NHL's salary cap. He added that a penalty for the violation is unlikely to be handed to the Flyers.

The final two years of Talbot's deal are reportedly worth $1 million per year. This would violate cap rules as the final two years of the contract can not be worth less than half of either of the first two years of the deal.

The first two years of Talbot's contract are worth $2.5 million and $2.25 million respectively.

In order to fit within the rules of the cap, the deal would have to be restructured. This could be achieved by making the fourth or fifth year worth at least $1.125 million.
The article answered the one question i had when i first heard it on the radio a few minutes ago... re: punishment.

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Old
07-04-2011, 04:00 PM
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PaulSedin
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he gets less then 50% of his first 2 years in his last 2 years

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07-04-2011, 04:06 PM
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If that's the case, why is the Ehrhoff deal valid? Aren't his first two years 10 mill and 8 mill?

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07-04-2011, 04:10 PM
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Zaide
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Originally Posted by Briecheeze View Post
If that's the case, why is the Ehrhoff deal valid? Aren't his first two years 10 mill and 8 mill?
Aren't the first 2 years of Ehrhoff mostly contituted of signing bonuses ?

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07-04-2011, 04:26 PM
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Aquiace
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Aren't the first 2 years of Ehrhoff mostly contituted of signing bonuses ?
Yep. That's how you get around the salary cap. Just don't call it a salary, call it a bonus.

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07-04-2011, 04:26 PM
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Philadelphia Ducks
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I really don't get it either, if signing bonus doesn't count, why don't GMs just make 90% of their contracts they make signing bonuses to get around this

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07-04-2011, 04:28 PM
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I pretty sure the article is wrong. According to Miller Talbot's contract was:

Quote:
miller on twitter: "Max Talbot contract with Phi goes $2.5m, $2.25m, $2.25m, $1m, $1m. At first glance, seems to be a violation of the cap rules. Checking."
I believe the rule it actually violates is a salary drop of more than 50% of the lower of the first 2 years. From what I understand the max annual drop off should be $1.125 million. The difference between year 3 and 4 is $1.25 million and on it's face that seems like a violation.

So for example Brad Richards is paid $12 million in year one and year two. Therefore he can have his annual salary decrease by $6 million per year. Without looking at the numbers I suspect Ehrhoff is similarly high in both the first 2 years.

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07-04-2011, 04:33 PM
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anonymity
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Yep, NHL's going to penalize a contract like that but let the Richards, Luongo, and Pronger contracts go through.


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07-04-2011, 04:38 PM
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Doesn't the Richards deal go from something like 6-8 million right down to 1 mill for the last 3 years?

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07-04-2011, 04:40 PM
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BrindamoursNose
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It's silly. Fine at maximum. I've heard fans go as crazy as clamoring for the Flyers' 1st round pick as a penalty.

silly

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07-04-2011, 04:40 PM
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Doesn't the Richards deal go from something like 6-8 million right down to 1 mill for the last 3 years?
Yes, but the NHL will let it go because you're allowed to have the salary drop up to 50% from the first year (6 million per year)

Stupid rule, gets abused easily by the Rangers.. and then a harmless contract like this gets penalized.

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07-04-2011, 04:44 PM
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Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
I really don't get it either, if signing bonus doesn't count, why don't GMs just make 90% of their contracts they make signing bonuses to get around this
If there is a lockout (this is the last season of the CBA) - the owner would still be on the hook for paying said player for the amount of the signing bonus. Also could get into "interesting situations" like the Heatley scenario where the Sens owner had just paid something like a $5 million signing bonus due before the season started (which he paid) & then having Heatley demanding a trade. Sharks avoid having to pay real cash for a good chunk of Healtey's first season with them as a result.

Wouldn't affect some teams like the Flyers with huge financial resources but not all teams have that kind of money.

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07-04-2011, 04:45 PM
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why don't they just make the salary = cap hit. Problem solved. No more cap circumvention

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07-04-2011, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
why don't they just make the salary = cap hit. Problem solved. No more cap circumvention
don't be talking all smart and simple here... dern you

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07-04-2011, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymity View Post
Yes, but the NHL will let it go because you're allowed to have the salary drop up to 50% from the first year (6 million per year)

Stupid rule, gets abused easily by the Rangers.. and then a harmless contract like this gets penalized.
Harmless or not, a rule is a rule and it should be followed. Clearly it isn't being made a big deal by anyone but fans.

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07-04-2011, 05:17 PM
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Harmless or not, a rule is a rule and it should be followed. Clearly it isn't being made a big deal by anyone but fans.
Tell that to Colin Campbell.

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07-04-2011, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
why don't they just make the salary = cap hit. Problem solved. No more cap circumvention
So, then GMs manipulate salaries in a different way.

I have Star A under contract for 10 m, 10 m, 5m, 1m, 1 m for an average of 5.4 m

After year 3 of A's contract, I sign Star B to a a similar contract but back-load instead, so he gets 1m, 1m, 5m, 10m, 10m.

This means you have 2 years where you have 2 5.4m players for a total cap hit of 2m.

In fact, I suspect that such a system would make it far easier to get more talent under the cap that the current one does.

What I suspect will happen in the next CBA is the rules will be tightened up on how much salary can vary from year to year.

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07-04-2011, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
It's silly. Fine at maximum. I've heard fans go as crazy as clamoring for the Flyers' 1st round pick as a penalty.

silly
Actually for contracts like this, I think they just send them back to be redone. Wasn't that the case with Martin Erat's contract a while back?

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07-04-2011, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rojac View Post
So, then GMs manipulate salaries in a different way.

I have Star A under contract for 10 m, 10 m, 5m, 1m, 1 m for an average of 5.4 m

After year 3 of A's contract, I sign Star B to a a similar contract but back-load instead, so he gets 1m, 1m, 5m, 10m, 10m.

This means you have 2 years where you have 2 5.4m players for a total cap hit of 2m.

In fact, I suspect that such a system would make it far easier to get more talent under the cap that the current one does.

What I suspect will happen in the next CBA is the rules will be tightened up on how much salary can vary from year to year.


oh dear. find me one star in the league that'll play for $1m

The $1m years are added to the END of the contract, a "handshake" agreement that the player will retire by then

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07-04-2011, 05:27 PM
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I'm pretty sure that this kind of thing has happened before, and they won't penalize it. They'll probably just make them resubmit a valid contract, which would be achieved by swinging a quarter million from one year to another.

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07-04-2011, 05:28 PM
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BrindamoursNose
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Actually for contracts like this, I think they just send them back to be redone. Wasn't that the case with Martin Erat's contract a while back?
I think so. That's why I'm saying the absolutely max is a minor fine and re-work the deal. I think realistically, it'll just be re-worked (like you said).

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07-04-2011, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post


oh dear. find me one star in the league that'll play for $1m

The $1m years are added to the END of the contract, a "handshake" agreement that the player will retire by then
It was just an illustration.

The point being that in your system you sign players to contracts that vary so that low years line up and you get more value under the cap.

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07-04-2011, 05:40 PM
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DL44
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A better rule would be the lowest and highest $ amount can only be within 50% of the lower value of the first 2 yrs of the contract...

i.e. 10mil, 13, 15, 11, 10, 9, 9, 8, 8, 7, 6, 5, 5... (10mil +/- 5mil...)

It would at least nip the lifetime contract in the butt... for most anyway..

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07-04-2011, 06:30 PM
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Capgeek has Talbot listed as an UFA.

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07-04-2011, 07:02 PM
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Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philadelphia Ducks View Post
I really don't get it either, if signing bonus doesn't count, why don't GMs just make 90% of their contracts they make signing bonuses to get around this
Because if players make those bonuses and they are cap maxed out they'll have those bonuses counting against their cap the following season. Think Chicago with Toews.

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