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The Off-season Thread Part III (pre-season schedule w/TV in #472)

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Old
07-25-2011, 04:54 PM
  #251
VanSciver
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I never said we didn't. But, we have no realistic shot at a Cup IMO. I'd say making ECF should be considered a great success.
I totally agree with your assessment of the team this upcoming off season. But there is the old once you get in the playoffs, anything can happen.

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07-25-2011, 04:57 PM
  #252
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But then again, no one could see us getting to the final last year when we scraped into the play-offs. Stranger things have happened

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07-25-2011, 05:02 PM
  #253
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We were a team built for 2008-09, 2009-10, and 2010-11.

Now we're a team built for 2012-13, 2013-14, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2016-17...etc.

We're not built for 2011-12.

Whatever happens this season, happens. I expect playoffs, but every round we make it to is icing on the cake. This core is too young, and our team is too new.
I guess I'm one of the few in the minority, but I think this team certainly is capable of being a Stanley Cup contender. The goaltending has been improved dramatically and the defense has remained in tact. While the Flyers have subtracted Carter, Richards and Leino, they have also added Jagr, Voracek and Simmonds. Let's not forget that Voracek and Simmonds have both been in the league now for three seasons now, so they're young veterans.

And let's not forget that this is JVRs third year as well and if the playoffs showed us anything, he's also ready to step up to the next level.

Well, as I said, I think this team is more than capable of being a Stanley Cup contender. The team is young, but it's experienced youth that is going to be leading the way and that makes a huge difference.

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07-25-2011, 05:18 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I totally agree with your assessment of the team this upcoming off season. But there is the old once you get in the playoffs, anything can happen.
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
But then again, no one could see us getting to the final last year when we scraped into the play-offs. Stranger things have happened
That's true, but unfortunately those great underdog runs are decidedly rare. It'd be nice to see it again so soon.

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07-25-2011, 06:47 PM
  #255
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I believe they could be a better team this season. I don't know what's more absurd...you telling other hockey fans they are delusional, or you thinking you know more about Richards and Carter than holmgren and the rest of the Flyers Staff. This team went 93 games without a shut out last year and was massacred by a physical Bruins team in playoffs. Not a real tough act to follow IMO.
I agree with this.

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Teams who trade away their best players for youth are rarely better the next year. They're almost always worse...and that's universal across all team sports.
And no one knows what these trades will do. They may bring the room closer together. It's also allowed us to add size to the wings, additional toughness, real goaltender, and plenty of players that should have no problem making up the 198 points we gave up (Richards, Carter, Leino, Powe, Carcillo). We added youth who are ready to play, this was by no means a firesale.

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07-25-2011, 07:17 PM
  #256
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Anyone remember when it used to be fun and informative visiting the boards?

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07-25-2011, 08:07 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
That's true, but unfortunately those great underdog runs are decidedly rare. It'd be nice to see it again so soon.
also, the cup isn't won in October. This team could be decidely improved with a vet or two at the deadline. Hopefully, they can shed some more salary and build up some cap space at the deadline. let the kids prove themselves for the first three or four months.

If Shenn has a good, just good, season and they add a big third line center like Hanzal or Antropov so Shenn can play 4th line in the playoffs this team becomes really tough to play against with a checking line of Talbot - Hanzal/Antropov - Simmonds.

obviously, this team isn.t a serous contender but with a healthy Pronger + Kimo and a solid Bryz they aren't that far off either.

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07-25-2011, 08:14 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
also, the cup isn't won in October. This team could be decidely improved with a vet or two at the deadline. Hopefully, they can shed some more salary and build up some cap space at the deadline. let the kids prove themselves for the first three or four months.

If Shenn has a good, just good, season and they add a big third line center like Hanzal or Antropov so Shenn can play 4th line in the playoffs this team becomes really tough to play against with a checking line of Talbot - Hanzal/Antropov - Simmonds.

obviously, this team isn.t a serous contender but with a healthy Pronger + Kimo and a solid Bryz they aren't that far off either.
Should this team be trading more assets such as draft picks and young player for veterans to take a stab at a Cup run? That's part of what got them in that trouble. I say no trades like that this year, or for the near future. let this team develop. And let the young kids play in key roles. Build this team for the long haul. No more quick fixes.

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07-25-2011, 08:21 PM
  #259
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Should this team be trading more assets such as draft picks and young player for veterans to take a stab at a Cup run? That's part of what got them in that trouble. I say no trades like that this year, or for the near future. let this team develop. And let the young kids play in key roles. Build this team for the long haul. No more quick fixes.
depends on how close they are at the deadline and what picks/prospects are asked for.

the future is great but winning today is better.

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07-25-2011, 08:43 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Should this team be trading more assets such as draft picks and young player for veterans to take a stab at a Cup run? That's part of what got them in that trouble. I say no trades like that this year, or for the near future. let this team develop. And let the young kids play in key roles. Build this team for the long haul. No more quick fixes.
Agreed. The win-now mentality came close to putting the team in dire straits in terms of the cap and prospect pool. A little patience with this current group could pay off.

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07-25-2011, 11:04 PM
  #261
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If trading Richards/Carter was largely a move to open up cap space, why is this team less than $200,000 under?

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07-26-2011, 12:51 AM
  #262
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If trading Richards/Carter was largely a move to open up cap space, why is this team less than $200,000 under?
Because Homer spends like a teenage girl with her parents money...

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07-26-2011, 04:12 AM
  #263
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That's true, but unfortunately those great underdog runs are decidedly rare. It'd be nice to see it again so soon.
I wouldn't say they are rare. Montreal in the same year tearing it up. It does happen. It just seemed these past two play-offs, when Carter got back into the team, it messed things up. I'm not saying it's his fault, but we definitly played better without him in the line-up.

Thats why I'm really excited this year. Last years team showed no chemistry whatsoever. They got by on what they always got by on. Skill. I'm hoping that some of these guys can gell together, and for the first time in 5 years, play well every night. Not take games off completly, or take periods off. I want to see them playing hard every night, and if the bounces don't go our way, they don't. But at least you can't fault the guys on the ice.

How many times this year were we cursing when the guys practically gave up or didn't show in the third period. Or how about everytime leading 1/2/3 - 0 going into the third we gave up a goal. I think we have allot to look forward too this year. If the **** hits the fan and we suck, well then **** happens, and we can look forward to yakapov and couturier entering the team with a second year Schenn, and trying to nab a Suter/Weber ect.

It's exciting because for a change we have absolutly no idea whats going to happen. Just like the season after TSTSNBN.

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07-26-2011, 11:02 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I wouldn't say they are rare. Montreal in the same year tearing it up. It does happen. It just seemed these past two play-offs, when Carter got back into the team, it messed things up. I'm not saying it's his fault, but we definitly played better without him in the line-up.

Thats why I'm really excited this year. Last years team showed no chemistry whatsoever. They got by on what they always got by on. Skill. I'm hoping that some of these guys can gell together, and for the first time in 5 years, play well every night. Not take games off completly, or take periods off. I want to see them playing hard every night, and if the bounces don't go our way, they don't. But at least you can't fault the guys on the ice.

How many times this year were we cursing when the guys practically gave up or didn't show in the third period. Or how about everytime leading 1/2/3 - 0 going into the third we gave up a goal. I think we have allot to look forward too this year. If the **** hits the fan and we suck, well then **** happens, and we can look forward to yakapov and couturier entering the team with a second year Schenn, and trying to nab a Suter/Weber ect.

It's exciting because for a change we have absolutly no idea whats going to happen. Just like the season after TSTSNBN.
What? First of all, the team played great in the Finals. Carter wasn't a negative influence there. Leighton's inability to make saves was what costed them the series, not Carter messing things up.

Second, I guess you completely forgot October-January when the Flyers completely tore up the NHL. They had some pretty damned good chemistry until the fatigue from a grueling Finals run and lots of injuries caught up to them.

Also, it is rare. That's why the 2010 playoffs were so weird. The number of times the 7 and 8 seed have met in the conference finals: once...in 2010. The number of low seed teams who go on to compete for a Cup, much less win it, are very low. If you aren't ranked in the top 4 of your conference, you're generally screwed. That's what makes what the Flyers did special.

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07-26-2011, 11:43 AM
  #265
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Edmonton got to the finals not so long ago with Pronger on the back end. Carolina. It's not as rare as you make out.

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07-26-2011, 12:37 PM
  #266
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Edmonton got to the finals not so long ago with Pronger on the back end. Carolina. It's not as rare as you make out.
Carolina was ranked 2nd in their Conference. Edmonton was 8th in theirs, and not surprisingly they lost.

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07-26-2011, 02:46 PM
  #267
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Edmonton got to the finals not so long ago with Pronger on the back end. Carolina. It's not as rare as you make out.
It is that rare. More importantly, lower seeds do not win the Cup. The 1995 Devils are the lowest seeded to win the cup (5th). Since realignment in 1994, six teams seeded first, six teams seeded second, two teams seeded third, two teams seeded fourth, and one team seeded fifth have won the Cup. There have been Cinderella runs, but the clock inevitably strikes midnight and she goes home empty handed.

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07-27-2011, 12:04 AM
  #268
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Carolina was ranked 2nd in their Conference. Edmonton was 8th in theirs, and not surprisingly they lost.
Roloson doesn't get injured, the Stanley cup final has a different result that year.

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07-28-2011, 02:45 PM
  #269
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Brz tweeted about having a drink with friends today. How long before Dan Gross breaks the "Dryberia" story?

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07-29-2011, 09:45 PM
  #270
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The Art of Being a GM

So I'm probably going to take some heat for this, and get yelled at for being a hater; however, my intention is not to rip Homer but merely point out the differences in how a GM can approach accomplishing their goals.

One of my biggest gripes with Homer is not WHAT he does, but HOW he does it; and that is my reason for creating this thread. I'm going to make a bit of a cross-sports analogy, which can sometimes be a no-no, so if you don't feel it's apples to apples, so be it.

If you weren't already aware NFL teams were allowed to begin speaking to UFAs on Tuesday but were not officially able to sign them until tonight at 6PM. Subsequently, we saw a number of teams come to "agreements" with players after Tuesday but before tonight.

Many people expected Nnamdi Asomugha (NA from here on out) to sign quite early on Tuesday being the most sought after UFA. However, today we witnessed the Philadelphia Eagles sign him in a stunning move. NA is coming off a contract in which he made an average of $15 mill per year. Heading into free agency it was widely speculated he'd get something around 16-18 mill per yer on average. However, rather than jump the gun and rush to get their man, the Eagles were patient and quietly negotiated (nobody seemed to see this coming) and ended up signing their guy for a mere $12 mill per year average salary.

In my opinion, this is comparable to Ily Bryzgalov with Homer, and yet we saw an ENTIRELY different approach. If Homer were the GM of the Eagles, and NFL teams were able to acquire UFA rights, I'd be quite confident Homer would have acquired NA as soon as he could have, and signed him for closer to the speculated 16-18 mill average salary.

I'm one that preaches patience, and letting the market dictate what you can and should pay. In the case of NA, the Eagles signed the best available UFA for what is considered a bargain. It is also not a stretch to be quite confident that that is the best deal he could have possibly been had for because this wasn't a reaction signing, it took time, and let the market dictate the contract.

In the case of Homer and Bryz, he had to give up assets to get him before UFA even began, and despite my not thinking it's a completely terrible contract, we will never know what he may have signed for had he been able to hit the market, and had other offers as comparison.

Now of course, there is give and take, and there are pros and cons to when and why you may want to acquire a players rights in hockey. I get it. I know it's not a perfect analogy, I just thought this was a good example of one of my biggest gripes with Homer. Again, it is not WHAT he does, it is HOW he does it. In the case of the Eagles, I can say with complete confidence they got the best possible deal they could have for NA. I cannot say the same for Homer and Bryz.


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07-29-2011, 11:13 PM
  #271
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....................
Now of course, there is give and take, and there are pros and cons to when and why you may want to acquire a players rights in hockey. I get it. I know it's not a perfect analogy, I just thought this was a good example of one of my biggest gripes with Homer. Again, it is not WHAT he does, it is HOW he does it. In the case of the Eagles, I can say with complete confidence they got the best possible deal they could have for NA. I cannot say the same for Homer and Bryz.
I canŽt agree more!

The most thing i criticise homer for, is the return he gets in the blockbuster trades and the amount of money he throws to jagr, talbot and Bryz

IŽam not against the three players or against the trades of Carts and Richie but he need to get more out of it or leave the trade table!!

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07-29-2011, 11:48 PM
  #272
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I'm personally not convinced that Homer is truly at fault for any deficiencies in the Bryz deal. He was clearly under Snider's orders, and Snider didn't do anything to make Homer's job easier. If anything, he did the opposite. I'm a big fan of Snider, but I think he made some errors this offseason by announcing making his team's offseason plans clear as day.

i think Snider had a lot to do with all the major events in this offseason (although, who really knows..I'm just speculating), and I actually think Homer made the best of it all...and that's coming from a big Holmgren critic.

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07-30-2011, 10:06 AM
  #273
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I'm personally not convinced that Homer is truly at fault for any deficiencies in the Bryz deal. He was clearly under Snider's orders, and Snider didn't do anything to make Homer's job easier. If anything, he did the opposite. I'm a big fan of Snider, but I think he made some errors this offseason by announcing making his team's offseason plans clear as day.

i think Snider had a lot to do with all the major events in this offseason (although, who really knows..I'm just speculating), and I actually think Homer made the best of it all...and that's coming from a big Holmgren critic.
That's true, I too think Snider had a big hand in this; so admittedly, NA vs Bryz isn't apples to apples. That said, Homer's method is similar in acquiring Kimmo and Hartnell before FA, signing Leighton before FA, and possibly even trading for Mesz just before FA began.

I guess my point is essentially that, lots of times, when Homer makes a move, there are a lot "what ifs" and wondering whether he got the best deal possible. The Eagles, not so much (it's also just the nature of the sport's FA as well).

As to the bolded, that's another key difference here. The Eagles shocked everyone by keeping quiet.

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08-02-2011, 01:57 PM
  #274
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For Bryzgalov, it means a permanent home since his front loaded deal has a NO-MOVEMENT CLAUSE.........

Nice another one......


http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|PHI|home

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08-02-2011, 02:02 PM
  #275
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For Bryzgalov, it means a permanent home since his front loaded deal has a NO-MOVEMENT CLAUSE.........

Nice another one......


http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...id=DL|PHI|home
What!?!?!

Why couldn't he have just been happy with the money?

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