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The Off-season Thread Part III (pre-season schedule w/TV in #472)

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Old
08-04-2011, 01:22 AM
  #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
I think you can, because I believe Drury had one. But that is something i would not be in favor of at all. Especially with multiple years left on a deal.
Yeah, It's something we likely won't be worrying about for a long time.

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08-04-2011, 06:53 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I think we all know Pronger wont fulfill those last two years, we maybe lucky he gets to that point. At the end of the day the Pronger contract may go down as one of the biggest **** ups.
The Pronger contract could be the biggest **** up on many levels. The fact that we haven't heard a thing regarding his condition is a worry. What if he has to start on LTIR along with Lappy and another player goes down? As far as expecting him to retire before the end of the contract, that would be brutal because his cap hit remains for the length of the contract.

Misinterpreting the 35+ portion of the CBA is one of the worst things Homer did. This team desperately needs someone to work with him on the ins and outs of the cap and CBA.

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08-04-2011, 10:35 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The Pronger contract could be the biggest **** up on many levels. The fact that we haven't heard a thing regarding his condition is a worry. What if he has to start on LTIR along with Lappy and another player goes down? As far as expecting him to retire before the end of the contract, that would be brutal because his cap hit remains for the length of the contract.

Misinterpreting the 35+ portion of the CBA is one of the worst things Homer did. This team desperately needs someone to work with him on the ins and outs of the cap and CBA.
Assistant GM Barry Hanrahan is supposed to be that guy.

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08-04-2011, 10:46 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Assistant GM Barry Hanrahan is supposed to be that guy.
Without exaggeration, the sight of his name makes me frustrated. Either he is awful at his job, or they just don't listen to him.

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08-04-2011, 11:25 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
The Pronger contract could be the biggest **** up on many levels. The fact that we haven't heard a thing regarding his condition is a worry. What if he has to start on LTIR along with Lappy and another player goes down? As far as expecting him to retire before the end of the contract, that would be brutal because his cap hit remains for the length of the contract.

Misinterpreting the 35+ portion of the CBA is one of the worst things Homer did. This team desperately needs someone to work with him on the ins and outs of the cap and CBA.
If another D man gets hurt with Pronger out then one of the young guys will have to step up and play. The positives are that a young players gets some NHl experience.

What reason would Pronger have to retire and not take the money due to him for the rest of the contract? He already has an established serious injury. If he can't play due to physical reasons, then he goes on LTIR and the Flyers get the exemption to replace him. The downside, according to how the new CBA is negotiated, is the carry over problem with the bonus cushion.
When the Flyers traded for Pronger, it was a deal that's going to be judged simply by the fact of whether it put the Flyers over the top to win the Cup. And the window of Pronger continuing to be a top player was short. That was known from jump street about the deal.

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08-04-2011, 11:36 AM
  #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
If another D man gets hurt with Pronger out then one of the young guys will have to step up and play. The positives are that a young players gets some NHl experience.

What reason would Pronger have to retire and not take the money due to him for the rest of the contract? He already has an established serious injury. If he can't play due to physical reasons, then he goes on LTIR and the Flyers get the exemption to replace him. The downside, according to how the new CBA is negotiated, is the carry over problem with the bonus cushion.
When the Flyers traded for Pronger, it was a deal that's going to be judged simply by the fact of whether it put the Flyers over the top to win the Cup. And the window of Pronger continuing to be a top player was short. That was known from jump street about the deal.
You do realize that the last 2 years of Pronger's deal, he will be getting paid 525k/yr...

I can easily see him forfeiting that money to have complete freedom, instead of having to hang around camp etc... Just so it looks like he is trying to play. I also do not expect someone with the stature of Pronger (Future HOF) to hang around for 2 years on LTIR.

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08-04-2011, 11:58 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
You do realize that the last 2 years of Pronger's deal, he will be getting paid 525k/yr...

I can easily see him forfeiting that money to have complete freedom, instead of having to hang around camp etc... Just so it looks like he is trying to play. I also do not expect someone with the stature of Pronger (Future HOF) to hang around for 2 years on LTIR.
Not to mention there would have to be medical proof of an injury. People around here keep acting like we can just put him on LTIR for the fun of it.

Also, you are limited to how many people can be put on LTIR at once. Last year there were issues because Lappy, MFL and Walker were all eligible to be on LTIR but only 2 could be on it at once.

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08-04-2011, 12:03 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
If another D man gets hurt with Pronger out then one of the young guys will have to step up and play. The positives are that a young players gets some NHl experience.

What reason would Pronger have to retire and not take the money due to him for the rest of the contract? He already has an established serious injury. If he can't play due to physical reasons, then he goes on LTIR and the Flyers get the exemption to replace him. The downside, according to how the new CBA is negotiated, is the carry over problem with the bonus cushion.
When the Flyers traded for Pronger, it was a deal that's going to be judged simply by the fact of whether it put the Flyers over the top to win the Cup. And the window of Pronger continuing to be a top player was short. That was known from jump street about the deal.
My dread is that the Flyers start the season with Pronger on LTIR and with both Lilja and Walker both logging regular shifts.

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08-04-2011, 12:23 PM
  #334
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My dread is that the Flyers start the season with Pronger on LTIR and with both Lilja and Walker both logging regular shifts.
And Bryz gets injured and MFL is given the #1 spot over Bob who is still training in Austria!

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08-04-2011, 12:51 PM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
My dread is that the Flyers start the season with Pronger on LTIR and with both Lilja and Walker both logging regular shifts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
And Bryz gets injured and MFL is given the #1 spot over Bob who is still training in Austria!
Simply considering both of these possibilities makes me twitch.

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08-04-2011, 01:39 PM
  #336
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From http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...d-rr-headlines about Weber's new deal.


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What the deal means for Nashville -- Weber's one-year award not only has an immediate impact on the Predators' salary cap and internal budget, but with it comes speculation as to whether GM David Poile will be able to keep Weber, fellow defenseman Ryan Suter and goalie Pekka Rinne under contract beyond next season.

Scoop one of them up Holmgren.

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08-04-2011, 01:45 PM
  #337
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Scoop BOTH of them up Holmgren.
That.

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08-04-2011, 03:25 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
You do realize that the last 2 years of Pronger's deal, he will be getting paid 525k/yr...

I can easily see him forfeiting that money to have complete freedom, instead of having to hang around camp etc... Just so it looks like he is trying to play. I also do not expect someone with the stature of Pronger (Future HOF) to hang around for 2 years on LTIR.
Why would he do that to the Flyers and cause them to carry that Cap hit on the Cap for a retired player on a +35 contract? If a player is not medically cleared to play, he doesn't have to hang around and try and play. I would expect him to rake in 1M for doing nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
Not to mention there would have to be medical proof of an injury. People around here keep acting like we can just put him on LTIR for the fun of it.

Also, you are limited to how many people can be put on LTIR at once. Last year there were issues because Lappy, MFL and Walker were all eligible to be on LTIR but only 2 could be on it at once.
There already is medical proof of an injury. He already has a documented case of a disc issue in his back, that could degenerate. the issue last year had to due to with bonus overage issues that having a player on LTIR can cause. The Flyers were trying to avoid that. There is no limit to how many players you can place on LTIR.

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08-04-2011, 03:36 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Why would he do that to the Flyers and cause them to carry that Cap hit on the Cap for a retired player on a +35 contract? If a player is not medically cleared to play, he doesn't have to hang around and try and play. I would expect him to rake in 1M for doing nothing.



There already is medical proof of an injury. He already has a documented case of a disc issue in his back, that could degenerate. the issue last year had to due to with bonus overage issues that having a player on LTIR can cause. The Flyers were trying to avoid that. There is no limit to how many players you can place on LTIR.
Why would he care if the Flyers messed up the contract, and will have to carry cap penalties? He does not have to try and make up for front office mistakes.

Secondly you can't just use a past event and use that as proof.

CBA Section 50.10(d):

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(d) Bona-Fide Long-TermInjury/Illness Exception to the Upper Limit. In the event that a Player on a Club becomes unfit to play (i.e., is injured, ill or disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player) such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion, that the Player, owing to either an injury or an illness, will be unfit to play for at least (i) twenty-four (24) calendar days and (ii) ten (10) NHL Regular Season games, and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additional Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit, solely as, and to the extent and for the duration, set forth below. If, however, the League wishes to challenge the determination of a Club physician that a Player is unfit to play for purposes of the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception, the League and the NHLPA shall promptly confer and jointly select a neutral physician, who shall review the Club physician's determination regarding the Player's fitness to play.

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08-04-2011, 03:41 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Why would he care if the Flyers messed up the contract, and will have to carry cap penalties? He does not have to try and make up for front office mistakes.

Secondly you can't just use a past event and use that as proof.

CBA Section 50.10(d):

It has nothing to do with the Flyers messing up the contract. Pronger get's paid 1M that he's entitled to, and the Flyers get the Cap space with him being on LTIR the last two years. It's a win-win situation for both sides.

Secondly, I didn't say they could use a past event. I said that he already has a documented injury that COULD degenerate, with his back disc issue. It's not unreasonable to think that it could get to a point where it could cause him to not be able to play anymore. And would therefore be a legitimate candidate for LTIR status. I'm intimately familiar with the CBA. I have read it and studied it extensively.

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08-04-2011, 04:32 PM
  #341
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It has nothing to do with the Flyers messing up the contract. Pronger get's paid 1M that he's entitled to, and the Flyers get the Cap space with him being on LTIR the last two years. It's a win-win situation for both sides.

Secondly, I didn't say they could use a past event. I said that he already has a documented injury that COULD degenerate, with his back disc issue. It's not unreasonable to think that it could get to a point where it could cause him to not be able to play anymore. And would therefore be a legitimate candidate for LTIR status. I'm intimately familiar with the CBA. I have read it and studied it extensively.
He has the keys to the car. The front office better not piss him off at the end of his contract because if he straight out retires, they're in trouble.

As far as LTIR goes, there was a rewason why only 2 players were on it at the same time. I don't have a laptop but Lappy/MFL/Walker were all injured at the same time last fall but they didn't put Walker on till Leighton came off. There was a reason for it but I can't look it up.

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08-04-2011, 05:00 PM
  #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
He has the keys to the car. The front office better not piss him off at the end of his contract because if he straight out retires, they're in trouble.

As far as LTIR goes, there was a rewason why only 2 players were on it at the same time. I don't have a laptop but Lappy/MFL/Walker were all injured at the same time last fall but they didn't put Walker on till Leighton came off. There was a reason for it but I can't look it up.
The reason is that which I stated earlier. To try and avoid bonus overages on this Season's cap. There is no limit to how many player a team can have on LTIR

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08-04-2011, 06:43 PM
  #343
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That.
Lidstrom retires and DRW gets one of them. <--- total speculation.

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08-04-2011, 06:44 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
It has nothing to do with the Flyers messing up the contract. Pronger get's paid 1M that he's entitled to, and the Flyers get the Cap space with him being on LTIR the last two years. It's a win-win situation for both sides.

Secondly, I didn't say they could use a past event. I said that he already has a documented injury that COULD degenerate, with his back disc issue. It's not unreasonable to think that it could get to a point where it could cause him to not be able to play anymore. And would therefore be a legitimate candidate for LTIR status. I'm intimately familiar with the CBA. I have read it and studied it extensively.
I think we are talking about two separate situation. I am discussing that in his last two years, if he is indeed healthy he will instead retire. If he is healthy, he can't just pretend his back is messed up from years before. The league will investigate, and a player of his stature would not risk that type of black mark, just to help a team that misunderstood the CBA.

You might think that Pronger at the age of 40-42 will want to play hockey for 525k/yr. I certainly don't.

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08-04-2011, 07:05 PM
  #345
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Quote:
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I think we are talking about two separate situation. I am discussing that in his last two years, if he is indeed healthy he will instead retire. If he is healthy, he can't just pretend his back is messed up from years before. The league will investigate, and a player of his stature would not risk that type of black mark, just to help a team that misunderstood the CBA.

You might think that Pronger at the age of 40-42 will want to play hockey for 525k/yr. I certainly don't.
I don't think we are. I think your misunderstanding every post I've made. I think Pronger will play as long as he can. I also think the chances of Pronger being healthy enough to play the entire term of the deal, are slim to none. I haven't in any way stated that they will make up an injury that is not legitimate to circumvent the Cap.

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08-04-2011, 08:29 PM
  #346
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I don't think we are. I think your misunderstanding every post I've made. I think Pronger will play as long as he can. I also think the chances of Pronger being healthy enough to play the entire term of the deal, are slim to none. I haven't in any way stated that they will make up an injury that is not legitimate to circumvent the Cap.
I was saying that Pronger playing out the contract was not going to happen, regardless of his health. From my original post, I tried to state that; we would probably be lucky if he stayed relatively healthy up to that point. But even if he did, he would be retiring with those final two years left.

I'm not going to bank on the fact that he will have perfectly timed career ending injury, so he can stick around on LTIR. Even then, I could see him retiring, so he can be fast tracked into the HOF.

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08-05-2011, 09:03 AM
  #347
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http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...126825538.html

Quote:
New York Ranger Sean Avery was arrested and charged with battery on a police office earlier Friday, according to a Los Angeles Police Department spokesman.

Avery was having a party at his home in the Hollywood Hills a little after midnight, according to police. It was the second time officers had come to the residence after getting complaints of loud music.

When officers came to the house, Avery argued with police and attempted to go back inside his house, pushing an officer out of the way.

Avery then slammed the door and refused to come out. Officers continued to talk to the 31-year-old, asking him to come out, but he refused and additional officers were called to the location.

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08-05-2011, 09:09 AM
  #348
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Sean Avery refuses to open the door:


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08-05-2011, 10:52 AM
  #349
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When they say pushed, I get the impression that he shoved the officer on his ass. From the article, it looks like he moved an officer with a slight push, just to get him out of the way. Is that battery?

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08-05-2011, 11:05 AM
  #350
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When they say pushed, I get the impression that he shoved the officer on his ass. From the article, it looks like he moved an officer with a slight push, just to get him out of the way. Is that battery?
It's a stretch of the law, but you're not physically allowed to contact an officer in any way that can be deemed threatening or violent.

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