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Salary Arbitration (Callahan on July 28, Dubinsky signs before hearing)

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07-20-2011, 10:09 AM
  #551
Clowes Line
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I wouldn't be surprised to see something like 28 or 29 over 6 years. Good for both parties, we get him long term, he gets his money, but a little less than asked for.

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07-20-2011, 10:09 AM
  #552
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
I don't know if you guys posted it along with the Brooks article, but it said the deal was in the 5-6 year range. If so, DO IT. Give him his 5 mil for 6 years. I don't see the god damn problem.
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
Like I said before though, you send Avery's whopping 1.9 down to Connecticut and that makes room for Erixon. You then send down Christensen to make room for Eminger. I HIGHLY doubt Prospal is coming back. We will have enough room IMO.
I don't mean to be rude, but are you kidding? Dubi wants $5MM or he'll go to arbitration? Oh no, give it to him! Cally'll go? Oh no, give it to him! Well, great there's $2MM down the tubes - that's the cost of our #4 and soon to be #6/7 Dman. Three years ago it was "Avery wants $4MM per year? Oh no, give it to him!" from a lot of fans. Now you're saying the solution to clear space to overpay Dubi and Cally is to bury Avery. See where that leads? In a cap league, you pay players what they're worth. Period.

You never, ever submit to panic and pay the guy what he wants. That's how we wound up with Gomez, for crying out loud. Sorry if that means your favorite player is likely on his way out either by trade or via UFA in 2 years, but it's good cap management. We JUST left 4 years of cap hell - do you really want to start down that road again only a month later?!?

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07-20-2011, 10:10 AM
  #553
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4.5 per should be the absolute ceiling. That would be a slight over-payment, but it's probably what we are looking at in the 5yr range.

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07-20-2011, 10:11 AM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
How is that a bad deal? You are buying out 4 UFA years on a guy that is part of the heart and soul of this team, grinds, scores, plays very well on the boards, plays great defensively, is a great PKer, wins face-offs, can play Center or LW. How is this a bad deal again?

And I know you don't base a lot of the contract on what you expect of the player, but he will likely be seeing a lot of time with Richards and Gaborik. Can you say POINTS
Because 5 million is what a Bobby Ryan is worth as an RFA. I love Dubi, but he's no Bobby Ryan.

You're also assuming that he'll be seeing a lot of time with Richards and Gabby. What if Wolski clicks with them, and Dubi stays on the Pack line, putting up 50-60 points consistently? This prospect is just as likely, which is why you don't give a player money based on best case scenario.

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07-20-2011, 10:11 AM
  #555
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Remember Brooks reported that Dubinsky was asking for $4 mil during his last contract negotiation? Him asking for $5.5 mil here would not be that surprising given the past... Either him, or his agent, overvalues his worth and has no concept of the "going rate" for similar players.... If the arbitration hearing goes through, and he gets a 2 year deal, I think there's little chance he's a Ranger 3 years from now. Not because the Rangers will have any vendetta against him or anything, but because you cannot expect them to hammer out a deal as a FA if they can't even reach agreements while he was a RFA.... Let some other team overpay him.

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07-20-2011, 10:12 AM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I don't mean to be rude, but are you kidding? Dubi wants $5MM or he'll go to arbitration? Oh no, give it to him! Cally'll go? Oh no, give it to him! Well, great there's $2MM down the tubes - that's the cost of our #4 and soon to be #6/7 Dman. Three years ago it was "Avery wants $4MM per year? Oh no, give it to him!" from a lot of fans. Now you're saying the solution to clear space to overpay Dubi and Cally is to bury Avery. See where that leads? In a cap league, you pay players what they're worth. Period.

You never, ever submit to panic and pay the guy what he wants. That's how we wound up with Gomez, for crying out loud. Sorry if that means your favorite player is likely on his way out either by trade or via UFA in 2 years, but it's good cap management. We JUST left 4 years of cap hell - do you really want to start down that road again only a month later?!?
Duby isn't my favorite player first of all. Second, I don't see how we'd be going back to cap hell. We are talking about Dubinsky and Callahan, not Gomez, Drury, and Redden. And I'd rather give him 5 mil for 6 years than give him 4.5 for 3-4 years. Is 500K REALLY that big of a deal to you guys when we can lock him up for 6 years instead of 3-4?

Also, unlike the 3 bums we signed, Dubinsky is very tradeable even on a 6 year deal.

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07-20-2011, 10:12 AM
  #557
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The thing that I think is escaping some people, is that for a $5m cap hit, you'd be in the ballpark of what any UFA offers he gets in 2 years would likely be. Therefore, you'd be better using arbitration to get a lower cap hit for two years, and be prepared to pay him as a UFA. In face, given the potential changes in the next CBA, there's a chance that you'll still retain his RFA status even after a 2 year arbitration award.

EDIT: Believe me, I'd prefer to lock him up long term now. However, at some point, the price just doesn't make sense.

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07-20-2011, 10:16 AM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Remember Brooks reported that Dubinsky was asking for $4 mil during his last contract negotiation? Him asking for $5.5 mil here would not be that surprising given the past... Either him, or his agent, overvalues his worth and has no concept of the "going rate" for similar players.... If the arbitration hearing goes through, and he gets a 2 year deal, I think there's little chance he's a Ranger 3 years from now. Not because the Rangers will have any vendetta against him or anything, but because you cannot expect them to hammer out a deal as a FA if they can't even reach agreements while he was a RFA.... Let some other team overpay him.
If this goes to arbitration and the Rangers asked for 2yrs I think they will look to move him over the course of the next year. Sometime between now and the draft.

Hopefully this gets settled today and doesn't escalate into anything like that.

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07-20-2011, 10:18 AM
  #559
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I'm confused. He wants more years but is willing to go to arb where he can only get a 1 year deal? What is the point of that? If the money is good then they don't need arbitration, they just need some more time. I was always under the impression that arbitration is more to end debates over price than years since it can't dictate length of a contract.

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07-20-2011, 10:20 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I'm confused. He wants more years but is willing to go to arb where he can only get a 1 year deal? What is the point of that? If the money is good then they don't need arbitration, they just need some more time. I was always under the impression that arbitration is more to end debates over price than years since it can't dictate length of a contract.
That was the case yesterday. Now Brooks is saying the issue is the money and that Duby wants 5-5.5 million and that the length isn't the issue anymore.

Now whether that means they settled on the length or Dubinsky doesn't care about the length, that's a whole 'nother question that we don't know, with the latter option meaning he would have no problem going to arbitration.

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07-20-2011, 10:21 AM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
The thing that I think is escaping some people, is that for a $5m cap hit, you'd be in the ballpark of what any UFA offers he gets in 2 years would likely be. Therefore, you'd be better using arbitration to get a lower cap hit for two years, and be prepared to pay him as a UFA. In face, given the potential changes in the next CBA, there's a chance that you'll still retain his RFA status even after a 2 year arbitration award.

EDIT: Believe me, I'd prefer to lock him up long term now. However, at some point, the price just doesn't make sense.
If he's potting 70 points the price makes sense.

If we sign him for two years, and he does put up 70 points, people will be wishing we signed him for 6-7 years at 5 per.

What's the going rate on the open market for a 60-70 point player that plays in all situations, plays physical, dominates on the boards, and is a leader?

I think its a lot higher then 5 mil per.

And that's the problem here.

Are we willing to let him break out and then have to pay him market value in order to keep him.

Or slightly over pay (talking a measly 500k here) now and have him locked up at below market value when he's racking up 70 points through his prime years.

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07-20-2011, 10:21 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by HagelinForPresident View Post
No, the 10-11 Million we have right now is WITH the summer cap. Redden isn't eating up anything except what could've been 17 million in cap.
I'm sorry, but that's not true at all, and you would know it if you bothered to do some research. The Rangers have a cap payroll right now of ~$53.7M, NOT including Redden. That leaves them with about $10.6M to play with. When the summer cap goes into effect, Redden will eat up the entire thing PLUS $160k. We basically have to be $160k under the cap before Redden comes back on the books.

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07-20-2011, 10:24 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by N9Y4R View Post
If this goes to arbitration and the Rangers asked for 2yrs I think they will look to move him over the course of the next year. Sometime between now and the draft.
I'd say he could be dealt next summer for sure...

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07-20-2011, 10:24 AM
  #564
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I'm sorry, but that's not true at all, and you would know it if you bothered to do some research. The Rangers have a cap payroll right now of ~$53.7M, NOT including Redden. That leaves them with about $10.6M to play with. When the summer cap goes into effect, Redden will eat up the entire thing PLUS $160k. We basically have to be $160k under the cap before Redden comes back on the books.
Get rid of Christensen and Wolski.

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07-20-2011, 10:26 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by Revelation View Post
I'm sorry, but that's not true at all, and you would know it if you bothered to do some research. The Rangers have a cap payroll right now of ~$53.7M, NOT including Redden. That leaves them with about $10.6M to play with. When the summer cap goes into effect, Redden will eat up the entire thing PLUS $160k. We basically have to be $160k under the cap before Redden comes back on the books.
Actually we are both right. Just because CapGeek doesn't have him on our roster doesn't mean he isn't counting on our cap RIGHT NOW. He is on our cap right now. He takes up the whole summer cushion, meaning we have 10.6 with the cushion. Redden doesn't come on our cap after we are done... HE IS ALREADY ON OUR CAP. Just cuz Capgeek doesn't list him there, doesn't mean he isn't there. Capgeek has him still in Connecticut. He is already on our cap... It's the summer cushion that is giving us the 10.6 mil. Either way you look at it, we have 10.6 mil to work with. Then we send down Redden once training camp rolls around. That's what you have mixed around. Redden doesn't come on our cap in September, that's when he can be taken off the cap.

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07-20-2011, 10:28 AM
  #566
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
If he's potting 70 points the price makes sense.

If we sign him for two years, and he does put up 70 points, people will be wishing we signed him for 6-7 years at 5 per.

What's the going rate on the open market for a 60-70 point player that plays in all situations, plays physical, dominates on the boards, and is a leader?

I think its a lot higher then 5 mil per.

And that's the problem here.

Are we willing to let him break out and then have to pay him market value in order to keep him.

Or slightly over pay (talking a measly 500k here) now and have him locked up at below market value when he's racking up 70 points through his prime years.
Says you. It's been reported as high as $5.5MM. His comps are $4.0-4.2MM. That's a MASSIVE difference. You cave and you've just established a precedent of overpaying by over 30%.

Now, the numbers could be overinflated for the press. They could also be the arbitration numbers that each side is going to present (which are naturally inflated since you anticipate that the arbitrator is going to split the difference). But, if they're close to the real positions, you simply CANNOT do that.

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07-20-2011, 10:28 AM
  #567
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Zipay just said he heard Dubinsky was asking for less than what Brooks reported, but also seems to be saying that he believes any numbers coming out now are more for arbitration posturing than anything else (ask for a high number because you figure the arbitrator will decide around the middle of what both sides are asking for)

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07-20-2011, 10:28 AM
  #568
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It's interesting if what Brooks says is true (and im sure it is).

All things equal, when the team and player agree on compensation (500k apart is essentially an agreement), around $4.75MM, the player is more concerned about years than the $500k for the next season. In this case it appears Dubi is willing to settle for arbitration, and a one year deal, to plead his case for a bit more money. He's either bluffing, or is confident he will be worth much much more in the open market in a few years, right?

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07-20-2011, 10:34 AM
  #569
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This whole situation is annoying.

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07-20-2011, 10:36 AM
  #570
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This whole situation is annoying.
Agreed sir.

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07-20-2011, 10:36 AM
  #571
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Get rid of Christensen and Wolski.

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07-20-2011, 10:38 AM
  #572
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Oh yea, Wolski. Although it may not be ideal for some of you, we have a second buy-out period in August, meaning if we need to get under the cap, we can buy Wolski out at 2/3 of his contract.

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07-20-2011, 10:39 AM
  #573
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Agreed sir.
This we can all agree on.

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07-20-2011, 10:45 AM
  #574
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Gotta laugh how people take it personal. This is business, and both Dubi and agent are working to get the best deal they can. I think a 5 million dollar pricetag is a bit high, however...If the team was to overpay on a guy, I would rather see it be one of Dubi or Callahan because above everyone else on this team these are thew two guys that I feel deserve it more. The earned it, by being the two hardest workers on the team on a nightly basis.

At the end of the day, I think the cap his remains under $4.5. This falls on Sather to get him back here. At the end of the year Dubi was quoted as saying "lets ge tthis over with, I want to be here and the Rangers want me here" or something along those lines. My gut tells me this gets ironed out soon.

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07-20-2011, 10:57 AM
  #575
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Oh yea, Wolski. Although it may not be ideal for some of you, we have a second buy-out period in August, meaning if we need to get under the cap, we can buy Wolski out at 2/3 of his contract.
Just 2/3? Is it because it's a different buy-out period? I thought it was something closer to 9/10.

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