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Salary Arbitration (Callahan on July 28, Dubinsky signs before hearing)

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Old
07-20-2011, 05:50 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You still don't get it, do you? What's the alternative to arbitration? He'd still be without a contract, but he'd be able to sign an offer sheet.

Tell me how that's better.

There's a huge difference between electing arbitration and actually going to arbitration. And as yet, you still have not criticized anyone but Dubinsky, despite him being only 1 of 4 who elected arbitration.

I ask again, where are you criticisms for Callahan, Boyle and Sauer? They all elected arbitration. But no, you only whined about Dubinsky. Hypocrite.
Arbitration is so good!!! Remember you kept saying that? LoL

How many you just pay the guy the extra 500K and give him the 6-7 year contract, but don't worry, arbitration is so good like you said! Best case scenario like you said!

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07-20-2011, 05:50 PM
  #652
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5 years, $21.5M deal.

$3M (RFA year), $3.5M (RFA year), $5M, $5M, $5M.

Makes too much sense.

Sather better read HF.

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07-20-2011, 05:52 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://blogs.democratandchronicle.co...aring-closely/

Captain Marc Staal come get the Stanley Cup
Expect to get MORE than Dubi?
I really don't even see why Callahan should expect to get more.
We talk about the intangibles he brings other than his point totals. We did the same thing to justify paying Drury what we did. Bottom line is, he may be a future captain but he has never topped 50 points in a season. As an RFA I hope Sather plays hardball for the benefit of the team as a whole.

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07-20-2011, 05:55 PM
  #654
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Hey Brooks, shut up

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07-20-2011, 05:57 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
4 years, $18M deal.

$3M (RFA year), $5M, $5M, $5M.

Makes too much sense.

Sather better read HF.
The next two years are RFA years for Dubinsky.

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07-20-2011, 05:59 PM
  #656
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I'm sick of this drama. I say screw it, let's just trade em both to Nashville for Shea Weber, trade Girardi for a 2nd line wing, and sign Parise next offseason to replace some of the offense.

2012-2013
Parise - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - 2nd line wing acquired for Girardi
Hagelin - Anisimov - Zuccarello/Thomas
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Staal - Weber
McDonagh - Erixon
Del Zotto - Sauer


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07-20-2011, 06:00 PM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I'm sick of this drama. I say screw it, let's just trade em both to Nashville for Shea Weber, trade Girardi for a 2nd line wing, and sign Parise next offseason to replace some of the offense.

2012-2013
Parise - Richards - Gaborik
Kreider - Stepan - 2nd line wing acquired for Girardi
Hagelin - Anisimov - Zuccarello/Thomas
Rupp - Boyle - Prust

Staal - Weber
McDonagh - Erixon
Del Zotto - Sauer

You are imaginative, I'll give you that.

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07-20-2011, 06:00 PM
  #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The next two years are RFA years for Dubinsky.
You're right, I was thinking he had 1 RFA year left should he sign a 1 year deal, and forgot that next season counts as an RFA year. Doy.

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07-20-2011, 06:05 PM
  #659
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Ville Leino is getting $4.5M per for six years....you don't think Dubinsky would get between $5-5.5M? Please.
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...13555752742913

Put down the crack pipe. If this represents the thinking of Dubinsky and Overhardt,FUBAR.

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07-20-2011, 06:07 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Mrpuck View Post
Expect to get MORE than Dubi?
I really don't even see why Callahan should expect to get more.
We talk about the intangibles he brings other than his point totals. We did the same thing to justify paying Drury what we did. Bottom line is, he may be a future captain but he has never topped 50 points in a season. As an RFA I hope Sather plays hardball for the benefit of the team as a whole.
Callahan is a year older and therefore 1 year closer to UFA. If they both sign for the same number of years, Cally will be giving up more UFA years.

Dubinsky had more points this year, but Cally had the better PPG average. Cally had 6 less points and 1 less goal in 17 less games.

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07-20-2011, 06:08 PM
  #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...13555752742913

Put down the crack pipe. If this represents the thinking of Dubinsky and Overhardt,FUBAR.


That's like saying Scott Gomez makes 7.3 million, therefore Dubinsky should make the same amount.....

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07-20-2011, 06:08 PM
  #662
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
What Brooks fails to acknowledge in this, is that while Dubinsky might get $5-5.5m in UFA, why should the Rangers be paying him the UFA rate when they still control his RFA rights for 2 years?

Even if you say that 3 UFA years are worth $5m each, and his 2 RFA years are worth $4m each, that would drop the cap hit to $4.6m.

a $5.5m or even $5m cap hit might be what he's worth as a UFA, but he isn't a UFA.
Pretty much.

The RFA years average down the cap hit to ~4.5M per. As a UFA, I'm sure some dope like Burke would throw 5.5M at him, sure. So if we give him a 5 year deal it looks like this: 4, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5. It still averages out to 4.6M per. Now is the time to buy the UFA years, when we can still average them with the RFA years to get a better cap hit.

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07-20-2011, 06:10 PM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...13555752742913

Put down the crack pipe. If this represents the thinking of Dubinsky and Overhardt,FUBAR.
So basically, Brooks has no clue what he's talking about.

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07-20-2011, 06:12 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by AlphaQUp View Post
Pretty much.

The RFA years average down the cap hit to ~4.5M per. As a UFA, I'm sure some dope like Burke would throw 5.5M at him, sure. So if we give him a 5 year deal it looks like this: 4, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5. It still averages out to 4.6M per. Now is the time to buy the UFA years, when we can still average them with the RFA years to get a better cap hit.
Right, but based on the cap hit Brooks is proposing, either Dubinsky (a) is refusing to accept that his RFA years are worth less than his UFA years, or (b) thinks his UFA years are worth $5.5-6m. In either case, arbitration is unfortunately our only recourse.

Unfortunately, the NHL arbitration system is an absolute travesty wherein the arbitrator simply splits the difference in practically every case. In my opinion, a much better system is where each side presents a figure and the arbitrator must pick one of them. It forces both sides the remain realistic.

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07-20-2011, 06:13 PM
  #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/#!/NYP_Brooksie/...13555752742913

Put down the crack pipe. If this represents the thinking of Dubinsky and Overhardt,FUBAR.
I think this represents the misguided thinking of Larry Brooks. Overhardt knows better than to use a UFA contract as a guideline for a client that is an RFA.

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07-20-2011, 06:14 PM
  #666
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Smear campaign against Dubinsky is in full effect.

What a disgrace.

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07-20-2011, 06:15 PM
  #667
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@LegendChara Exactly the point. Dubinsky's asking price is for long-term deal that would preclude unrestricted free agency.

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07-20-2011, 06:15 PM
  #668
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I think this represents the misguided thinking of Larry Brooks. Overhardt knows better than to use a UFA contract as a guideline for a client that is an RFA.
Quote:
mirtle James Mirtle
@
@NYP_Brooksie Good thing he won't be a comparable. But you're right: Dubinsky's worth a bundle.
Precisely.

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07-20-2011, 06:20 PM
  #669
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Right, but based on the cap hit Brooks is proposing, either Dubinsky (a) is refusing to accept that his RFA years are worth less than his UFA years, or (b) thinks his UFA years are worth $5.5-6m. In either case, arbitration is unfortunately our only recourse.

Unfortunately, the NHL arbitration system is an absolute travesty wherein the arbitrator simply splits the difference in practically every case. In my opinion, a much better system is where each side presents a figure and the arbitrator must pick one of them. It forces both sides the remain realistic.
We've been through the comparables plenty of times around here.

Where is Dubinsky's camp getting their comparables that he thinks he's could get 5.5-6M per? Honestly. The list of players in that range leave Duby in the dust. Here is the list of players that are currently making in that range:

30. Zetterberg, Henrik F DET 30 12 $6,083,333
31. Elias, Patrik F NJD 35 7 $6,000,000
32. Cammalleri, Mike F MTL 29 5 $6,000,000
33. Richards, Mike F LAK 26 12 $5,750,000
34. St. Louis, Martin F TBL 36 4 $5,625,000
35. Horcoff, Shawn F EDM 32 6 $5,500,000
36. Kessel, Phil F TOR 24 5 $5,400,000

This is the list of players with salaries between 5.5-6M this season:

31. Erat, Martin F NAS 29 7 $6,000,000
32. Cammalleri, Mike F MTL 29 5 $6,000,000
33. Kessel, Phil F TOR 24 5 $6,000,000
34. Kane, Patrick F CHI 22 5 $6,000,000
35. Toews, Jonathan F CHI 23 5 $6,000,000
36. Backstrom, Nicklas F WAS 23 10 $6,000,000
37. Kovalchuk, Ilya F NJD 28 15 $6,000,000
38. Carter, Jeff F CLB 26 11 $6,000,000
39. Cole, Erik F MTL 32 4 $6,000,000
40. Leino, Ville F BUF 27 6 $6,000,000
41. Bergeron, Patrice F BOS 25 3 $5,900,000
42. Getzlaf, Ryan F ANA 26 5 $5,750,000
43. Ryan, Bobby F ANA 24 5 $5,562,500
44. Pominville, Jason F BUF 28 5 $5,500,000
45. Malone, Ryan F TBL 31 7 $5,500,000
46. St. Louis, Martin F TBL 36 4 $5,500,000
47. Connolly, Tim F TOR 30 2 $5,500,000

The players that stand out in this list are Leino and Cole.

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Old
07-20-2011, 06:21 PM
  #670
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Ryan Kesler should fire Overhardt for only getting him 6 years/$30M. 10-11 to 15-16. First 2 years are RFA arbitration years and the rest are group III.

Look at Kesler's seasons before getting that contract

08-09 26 goals 59 points
09-10 25 goals 75 points

Had another solid year in 10-11 with 41 goals 73 points and was great in the playoffs before getting hurt in the Sharks series. Kesler is arguably the best American born player in the NHL. Flip a coin with Kane.

How much for Dubinsky? 24 goal career high. 54 point career high.

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07-20-2011, 06:21 PM
  #671
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And where the **** is my edit button? That first list is just cap hits.

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07-20-2011, 06:23 PM
  #672
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Really curious to see which side is playing hard ball with the $$$ figures. The Ladd contract is almost a perfect comparable, you'd think Dubinsky's deal would been done by now. Either the Rangers are not comfortable with the Ladd deal or Dubinsky wants upwards of 5M on average.

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07-20-2011, 06:27 PM
  #673
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Frankly, anything above 4.5 million for Dubinsky is an overpayment, especially as an RFA.

This is getting ridiculous. Its certainly nothing against Dubinsky personally, but 5+ mil would hamper this team potentially as it tries to make a cup run.

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07-20-2011, 06:27 PM
  #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaQUp View Post
Pretty much.

The RFA years average down the cap hit to ~4.5M per. As a UFA, I'm sure some dope like Burke would throw 5.5M at him, sure. So if we give him a 5 year deal it looks like this: 4, 4, 4.5, 5, 5.5. It still averages out to 4.6M per. Now is the time to buy the UFA years, when we can still average them with the RFA years to get a better cap hit.
You're on to something, here.

But make it a longer term contract. 7 years.

4, 4.5, 4.5, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 5.5

33.5 total

Approx 4.7 annual cap hit

Takes him to 32 years old.

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07-20-2011, 06:37 PM
  #675
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Once we get the arbiter ruling, are we still not able to negotiate a difference contract with Duby? Are we obligated to the arbiter's ruling and only choose 1 or 2 years?

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