HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Lecavalier to Toronto???

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-05-2011, 11:14 AM
  #76
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
If I were the Leafs, my concern would be that Vinny has NOT played better recently! Numbers-wise, he's been consistently dropping in productivity. His points totals for the last 5 years are, in order from '06-'07: 108, 92, 67, 70, 54. I don't see how that's a return to form in any way. I know he was ppg in the playoffs, but I think his contract is too big for a playoff specialist. I guess if Komisarek were involved it might be able to work out on paper, but I don't think it would be a good move for the Leafs in the end.
Sure look at numbers not circumstance. Wouldnt want to put logic into your reasoning.

Plus Vinny was PPG from all star game on through the playoffs last year. Hes coming back. You guys will see this season. PPG at least from him.

IdealisticSniper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:15 AM
  #77
IdealisticSniper
Registered User
 
IdealisticSniper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post


you lost. i'll shake your hand though
Still waiting on that source...dont worry, I have time, Ill wait.

IdealisticSniper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:16 AM
  #78
bleedblue1223
OMAHA!!!
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 23,744
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
2) if burke did trade for vinny then it would almost certainly be komisarek + lombardi going back to tampa. the value isnt in the player, the value is in the ~$60 million which will allow them to keep stamkos and dress a competitive lineup.
The value is what the Lightning set it to be. They don't have to trade him, they can sign Stamkos and keep Vinny. Why would they trade Vinny on the cheap when they don't have to.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:17 AM
  #79
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
Brian Burke says no to that huge error of a contract

Vinny is still a very good player and he still has moments of greatness, but they're becoming fewer and far between. You have to ask yourself why would Toronto take on somewhere in the neighbourhood of 80m just to help Tampa solve a problem? Then having to pay large for it as well. Does doing that make any sense at all? If so I have some Nortel stock I'd like to sell you, forget about future value and think about what they used to be worth.
The same reason they'd throw 80M at Richards if he was even willing to take offers. Burke is a greedy idiot who thinks he's smooth by dumping players over and over and over until he finally gets something useful for a rebuild. Then takes that watered down roster and dumps a bunch of overpaid guys on top of it. Pretty standard cycle in the cap ceiling strategy of teams that barely make it to the playoffs or worse.

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:19 AM
  #80
Vexed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Still waiting on that source...dont worry, I have time, Ill wait.
Forbes is one of the best financial sources in the world lol. Due to the massive influence that article would have had on your owners other businesses, if it were drastically untrue, there would have been a statement from the organization to clarify.

Just because you don't run a business venture or invest in the market doesn't mean there are not others who do.

You repeatedly saying the Forbes article is wrong does not make it wrong.

It is on you to provide the evidence that Forbes is wrong as that source is legit

Vexed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:22 AM
  #81
Doctor Drej
Unregistered User
 
Doctor Drej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Quiet Room
Country: United States
Posts: 10,921
vCash: 500
Is this thread even about the bogus trade proposal anymore?

Doctor Drej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:26 AM
  #82
BoltSTH
Registered User
 
BoltSTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 1,197
vCash: 500
Before anyone questions Jeff Vinik's business credentials or worth they should read:

http://beta2.tbo.com/sports/breaking...stor-ar-87591/

BoltSTH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:27 AM
  #83
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
1) if burke wasnt interested in mike richards/carter who are both in their mid 20s with their 10 year deals i cant see him even looking at vinny at his 10 year deal at 30 years old with and extra $2 million cap hit to go along with it as well.

2) if burke did trade for vinny then it would almost certainly be komisarek + lombardi going back to tampa. the value isnt in the player, the value is in the ~$60 million which will allow them to keep stamkos and dress a competitive lineup.

3) tampa has the cap space, the question is whether the actually are going to use it. as per capgeek tampa has $15 million in cap space. the need to sign stamkos, percell, and another forward or two. if they give stamkos the same deal vinny got then they would have over $7million for percell and a few other forwards. the only issue is that it would require them to spend to the cap. im not sure if tampa is willing/able to do so.
1)Burke did want Richards, and probably Carter for peanuts; but Ricahrds he didn't have the assets to compete, mostly because he got Kadri and not Schenn (what a shock that comes back to haunt him) Yeah that's right, everyone who ***** on TO prospects and assets was right that it didn't get him a #1 center.

2) Burke would be acquiring a locked up #1 center who's a veteran, a leader, and a Cup champ... you're stupid to pretend the value is all based on his contract 5 years from now. You're just being ridiculous if you don't want to admit it's a desperate team need at this point. Is he the best candidate, no, did you lose out on every other opportunity? Yes.

3) VL isn't the only player on the entire roster they can trade, they can sign Stamkos first and assess damage control. They don't have to take it up the pooper because they're not owned by MLSE. I don't know where this conspiracy that only the Leafs and Rangers are allowed to spend money like greedy *******s started, but it's childish.

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:27 AM
  #84
gabeliscious
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,373
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
The value is what the Lightning set it to be. They don't have to trade him, they can sign Stamkos and keep Vinny. Why would they trade Vinny on the cheap when they don't have to.
i didnt say the would trade him. i said IF vinny were to be traded the value would be the added cap space from ridding themself of the contract, NOT assets in the form of players/picks/prospects. there are several examples of decent players whose value was minimal due to horrid contracts.

the value isnt what tampa sets, its what they can get. those are 2 radically different things. just because you want to sell something for a certain price doesnt mean someone is willing to pay for it.

i also stated tampa has adequate cap space. the issue is whether the owners will allow yzerman to spend to the cap which is what will be required in order to allow stamkos to be resigned and maintain a competitive team.

its one thing to have vinny and stamkos as $7.7 down the middle but st louis, malone, kubina, ohlund, brewer, hedman.....these are guys who are making significant coin. either tampa spends to the cap, trades on of vinny/stamkos, or trades off other pieces of their team. either way i dont see exceptional value coming back for malone, kubina, ohlund, etc, etc. so yzermans next moves are going to come at a cost, either at a financial one or at a personnel one.

gabeliscious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:29 AM
  #85
8spokesontheB
Cry Havoc!
 
8spokesontheB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,830
vCash: 500
Funny thing is, either way he'll be in one of these bright blue get-ups in a few months....




8spokesontheB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #86
Vexed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoltSTH View Post
Before anyone questions Jeff Vinik's business credentials or worth they should read:

http://beta2.tbo.com/sports/breaking...stor-ar-87591/
Being worth a lot does not make losing close to 20million acceptable, in any shape, way or form.

Vexed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:30 AM
  #87
committedindian86
Flip The Switch
 
committedindian86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 4,133
vCash: 500
What would Toronto give up? 5 1st rounders?

committedindian86 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:31 AM
  #88
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexxed14 View Post
Being worth a lot does not make losing close to 20million acceptable, in any shape, way or form.
Being accepted never stopped rich people from doing things. (see: eccentric)

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:33 AM
  #89
sparxx87
Registered User
 
sparxx87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
The same reason they'd throw 80M at Richards if he was even willing to take offers. Burke is a greedy idiot who thinks he's smooth by dumping players over and over and over until he finally gets something useful for a rebuild. Then takes that watered down roster and dumps a bunch of overpaid guys on top of it. Pretty standard cycle in the cap ceiling strategy of teams that barely make it to the playoffs or worse.
Free agents cost only money...something MLSE has tons of.

Trading for players costs assets. Something The Leafs don't have a lot of.

Oh, and Burke took a bubble team in Anaheim, and filled in the pieces to win the cup.

You can't judge the job he does until it's done. The Leafs are still very much a rebuilding team and aren't going to expend promising young assets for a solid 70 point centre who is arguably overpaid, 32 year old and locked in for 10 more years or w.e it is.

Grabovski + Komisarek + b prospect.

Burke won't be trading any good young players with upside for Lecavalier.

sparxx87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:35 AM
  #90
Vexed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
Being accepted never stopped rich people from doing things. (see: eccentric)
I get your point, I do, and it is plausible that its not a big deal to him but 20million annual losses add up quick and you don't stay rich by letting money go like that.

I am sure they have a plan to turn it around and i hope they do. I understand the Stammer rumours have got your backs up against the wall but its very difficult to write of major losses to "a rich owner will cover it, no worries".

That's just not reality. Not long term anyways.

Vexed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:35 AM
  #91
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,611
vCash: 500
Why would TB trade Stamkos for a package including a salary dump, when another team could easily offer a package WITHOUT a salary dump? Let's face it. Kadri is not enough to make up for Komi's negative value.

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:36 AM
  #92
Vexed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Barrie, On
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaQUp View Post
Why would TB trade Stamkos for a package including a salary dump, when another team could easily offer a package WITHOUT a salary dump? Let's face it. Kadri is not enough to make up for Komi's negative value.
Lecavalier?

Vexed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:39 AM
  #93
Crisp Breakout
Registered User
 
Crisp Breakout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 5,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
?

Just like the 'premium' we paid for Franson?

In case you missed the last month of transactions - teams don't pay premiums for taking on cap dumps. Just ask Brian Campbell.
Franson was the premium they paid YOU to take on Lombardi...

Crisp Breakout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:48 AM
  #94
SteenMachine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fenton, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 4,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Free agents cost only money...something MLSE has tons of.

Trading for players costs assets. Something The Leafs don't have a lot of.

Oh, and Burke took a bubble team in Anaheim, and filled in the pieces to win the cup.

You can't judge the job he does until it's done. The Leafs are still very much a rebuilding team and aren't going to expend promising young assets for a solid 70 point centre who is arguably overpaid, 32 year old and locked in for 10 more years or w.e it is.

Grabovski + Komisarek + b prospect.

Burke won't be trading any good young players with upside for Lecavalier.
He added Pronger and Nediermayer... dude, come on. Anyone who had the cash could have at least made it to the finals riding those two. When Chara and Lidstrom demand to be traded for Komisarek and Armstrong's salary I'll be impressed.

SteenMachine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:49 AM
  #95
nhljohnson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 818
vCash: 500
I'm glad to see that people still fail to grasp that the Lightning are one component of a larger entity, Tampa Bay Sports & Entertainment, which is one investment by another entity, Jeffrey Vinik.

I have no doubt the Lightning lost money last fiscal year, but that doesn't necessarily mean TBS&E lost money last fiscal year. It is possible, though, that TBS&E lost money last fiscal year, but that doesn't necessarily mean Jeffrey Vinik lost money last year.

The point is, we may have an idea of the financial state of the Lightning, but we can only speculate as to those of the more important entities. In the immortal words of John Tortorella, "shut your yap" about the Lightning's finances until, yes, you have something other than a speculative article about the bottom line of the Lightning's hockey operations to indicate the organization is in financial peril.

nhljohnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:52 AM
  #96
Kamal007
A$VP
 
Kamal007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,629
vCash: 500
I love how according to HF, Vinny is worth the world but Luongo is a capdump. Luongo and Vinny are both on the same contract length, except Vinny's cap hit is much worse, he has performed much worse (Luongo took his team to the cup, Vezina nom) and hasn't even hit ppg in 3 season. They would both need to be cap dumps but Vinny's contract is much worse. I have no interest in taking on that contract's caphit or length (nor would Burke).

Kamal007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 11:52 AM
  #97
syc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not Europe
Posts: 2,127
vCash: 500
Pass from Toronto. Vinny is not the same player anymore and his cap hit is ridiculous for what he brings. The ONLY way this deal gets done is with Tampa taking a deal which includes Komi and that won't ever happen.

We want the kid from Ontario instead.

syc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 12:01 PM
  #98
sparxx87
Registered User
 
sparxx87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Etobicoke
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
He added Pronger and Nediermayer... dude, come on. Anyone who had the cash could have at least made it to the finals riding those two. When Chara and Lidstrom demand to be traded for Komisarek and Armstrong's salary I'll be impressed.
Lidstrom an Chara are elite. Lecavalier is not, anymore at least. Lecavalier is overpaid and signed to a bad contract for a long time.

Burkes bottom 6-top 6 style won Anaheim the cup. The Stanley cup is the hardest trophy in sports to win..... For you to discredit someone who won it, speaks to your lack of understanding.....dude.

sparxx87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 12:02 PM
  #99
RidinwitdaKING
Registered User
 
RidinwitdaKING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 283
vCash: 500
I think this is more possible than Stamkos going to the Leafs

RidinwitdaKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-05-2011, 12:03 PM
  #100
RidinwitdaKING
Registered User
 
RidinwitdaKING's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 283
vCash: 500
Connoly and Schein For Lecavalier and Change

RidinwitdaKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.