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Lecavalier to Toronto???

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07-05-2011, 02:49 PM
  #151
RhyZa
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If NMC is waived is a pretty big if. You're right it isn't even close to Stamkos.

But, you would acknowledge that it would take more than pieces that you don't want for Tampa to trade Vinny. For Tampa to trade Vinny, they would need actual pieces of value in return. This isn't like EA Sports, where enough garbage will get you a top player.
I guess this is where the argument ends with differing opinon.

You think it will take an impressive package, Leaf fans don't. It has nothing to do with Leaf fans thinking they should get everyone for free, it's the contract vs production/age, and perceived Stamkos/financial situation that they suspect is more dire than some do. It maybe wrong, but surely you can't write it off as typical Leaf fan homerism.

I'd be interested if this was Lecavalier to 'another team' if the opinions would be much different.

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07-05-2011, 02:50 PM
  #152
Simcoe23
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Originally Posted by Phil Kessticle View Post
Even if Burke made the gutless move of offer sheeting Stamkos (which he won't) the lightning will match it. Stamkos will be on the lightning for 10+ years anyone who thinks differently is a fool! Leaf fans think they are entitled to every other teams players, develop your own!
You are a plug. If your username wasn't enough of a clue, all I had to do was read your post. Explain to me how offer sheeting a player, a process clearly outlined and supported by the collective bargaining agreement, is a "gutless move"? Seriously?

Hey, maybe I can think of a clever double-entente usename where I can make fun of a player and the fact that he had testicular cancer at the same time!

Go play in traffic.

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07-05-2011, 02:50 PM
  #153
Drouin2Stamkos
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
You have "to"? Is that so...
When you say it out loud yes

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07-05-2011, 02:54 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Phil Kessticle View Post
The Leafs have nothing to offer to make any trade of any significance. If you trade Luke Schenn, Phill Kessel or 1st round picks (your only assets that have any worth) you will just be repeating the same mistakes that have made this team the laughing stock of the league. Patience! Develop your players and hopefully someone breaks through in the system.
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Originally Posted by Phil Kessticle View Post
please, expand on why i'm an idiot
You have 6 posts, you just joined and you name is Phil Kessticle. It's quite obvious your simply a sad little person with too much time on your hand, trolling Leaf fans, thinking he's (or she I guess) so clever.

You also have very little clue as to anything about hockey. NTC's have been proven to be nothing more than a little sentence in pieces of paper. They have been proven that they really don't stop a player from being traded, just from going where he doesn't want to go.

Also Kessel, Schenn and the 1st being the only things of value? Keep trying...

Simply put, your a sad little, unoriginal, sort of stupid, troll.

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07-05-2011, 02:55 PM
  #155
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by RhyZa View Post
I guess this is where the argument ends with differing opinon.

You think it will take an impressive package, Leaf fans don't. It has nothing to do with Leaf fans thinking they should get everyone for free, it's the contract vs production/age, and perceived Stamkos/financial situation that they suspect is more dire than some do. It maybe wrong, but surely you can't write it off as typical Leaf fan homerism.

I'd be interested if this was Lecavalier to 'another team' if the opinions would be much different.
Its the idea that Vinny has more value to the Lightning than any other team.

I would not want the Blues to trade what is required to obtain Vinny. To other teams he won't be worth as much in a trade, but to the Lightning he will be worth a lot more. Same with Schenn to you guys and same with Pietrangelo and Backes to me. It is not what the guy is worth on the market or the the team that wants him, it is about what the player is worth to the team that has him.

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07-05-2011, 02:59 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Its the idea that Vinny has more value to the Lightning than any other team.

I would not want the Blues to trade what is required to obtain Vinny. To other teams he won't be worth as much in a trade, but to the Lightning he will be worth a lot more. Same with Schenn to you guys and same with Pietrangelo and Backes to me. It is not what the guy is worth on the market or the the team that wants him, it is about what the player is worth to the team that has him.
Frankly, you're right. He's loved in the community and fits so well alongside Marty, it'd take a pretty big overpayment to move him. It would be a huge mistake for the Blues to part with the likes of Berglund or Stewart and a Pietroangelo level player for him in the long term and that's about what it would take.

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07-05-2011, 03:05 PM
  #157
Phil Kessticle
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Originally Posted by Simcoe23 View Post
You are a plug. If your username wasn't enough of a clue, all I had to do was read your post. Explain to me how offer sheeting a player, a process clearly outlined and supported by the collective bargaining agreement, is a "gutless move"? Seriously?

Hey, maybe I can think of a clever double-entente usename where I can make fun of a player and the fact that he had testicular cancer at the same time!

Go play in traffic.
Its a gutless move because rich organizations have used it in the the past to pry young talent from smaller market teams by offering them ridiculous contracts and forcing the smaller teams to let them go. Burke said it himself that its a gutless move. Any offer sheet given will be matched anyway when it involves a talent like Stamkos. My username is a joke, sorry if it upset you. Kessel is the man he will snipe 40+ this year

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07-05-2011, 03:11 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Phil Kessticle View Post
Its a gutless move because rich organizations have used it in the the past to pry young talent from smaller market teams by offering them ridiculous contracts and forcing the smaller teams to let them go. Burke said it himself that its a gutless move. Any offer sheet given will be matched anyway when it involves a talent like Stamkos. My username is a joke, sorry if it upset you. Kessel is the man he will snipe 40+ this year
Did you create that username just for this thread? If so, a great display of lack of testicles.

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07-05-2011, 03:12 PM
  #159
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Offer Sheets may not be the nicest thing in the world, but I don't see Boston complaining. Could you imagine the team Buffalo would have if they let Vanek go to the Oilers.

Bad teams with cap space should not do offer sheets because they will lose top draft picks. Good teams typically can't do offer sheets because they don't have enough open cap space. Offer sheets really haven't been a problem.

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07-05-2011, 03:16 PM
  #160
Phil Kessticle
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
You have 6 posts, you just joined and you name is Phil Kessticle. It's quite obvious your simply a sad little person with too much time on your hand, trolling Leaf fans, thinking he's (or she I guess) so clever.

You also have very little clue as to anything about hockey. NTC's have been proven to be nothing more than a little sentence in pieces of paper. They have been proven that they really don't stop a player from being traded, just from going where he doesn't want to go.

Also Kessel, Schenn and the 1st being the only things of value? Keep trying...

Simply put, your a sad little, unoriginal, sort of stupid, troll.
I joined this site to debate hockey not to "troll leaf fans" and not get into childish name calling battles. The players that a lot of you guys dream of getting traded to the leafs would take a Luke Schenn or a Kessel to get. Nobody wants Komaserik at 4.5 a year sorry to break it to you unless you want a washing machine in return. I know enough about hockey to know that Lecavalier would need to waive his no movement clause to get traded and would he rather play for a team that was 1 game away from the Stanley Cup final or for a team that is another 70 years from a Stanley Cup final hmmmmm.

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07-05-2011, 03:25 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Offer Sheets may not be the nicest thing in the world, but I don't see Boston complaining. Could you imagine the team Buffalo would have if they let Vanek go to the Oilers.

Bad teams with cap space should not do offer sheets because they will lose top draft picks. Good teams typically can't do offer sheets because they don't have enough open cap space. Offer sheets really haven't been a problem.
Ya Edmontons GM is the worst in the League Buff should have let him go, it would have been 4 first rounders for Vanek

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07-05-2011, 03:26 PM
  #162
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Not quoting anyone;

Dude, I don't want Lecavalier at that deal, unless you throw in Connolly and take Komisarek, and then it's just a maybe.

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07-05-2011, 03:27 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Similarities my friend. Just pointing it out, not saying its going to happen. You have to admit the similarities are there. Potential cap drop from a CBA restructuring (check). Two high priced centers (check). Maybe not far past that haha but two players taking up 14 million plus dollars is a lot.
You conveniently ignore the high probability that the cap will not be lowered without a somewhat proportional salary rollback which will correspondingly lower the cap hits of all players. Failing to do so would seriously inhibit virtually every team in the league from retaining much of their talent. This is the reason for the trend in front-loading the big-$, long-term contracts. The players want as much money as they can get now before the current CBA expires. The Richards deal with the Rangers is a great example of this.


Last edited by nhljohnson: 07-05-2011 at 03:38 PM.
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07-05-2011, 03:28 PM
  #164
Phil Kessticle
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Did you create that username just for this thread? If so, a great display of lack of testicles.
No this is my first account

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07-05-2011, 03:30 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Phil Kessticle View Post
I joined this site to debate hockey not to "troll leaf fans" and not get into childish name calling battles. The players that a lot of you guys dream of getting traded to the leafs would take a Luke Schenn or a Kessel to get. Nobody wants Komaserik at 4.5 a year sorry to break it to you unless you want a washing machine in return. I know enough about hockey to know that Lecavalier would need to waive his no movement clause to get traded and would he rather play for a team that was 1 game away from the Stanley Cup final or for a team that is another 70 years from a Stanley Cup final hmmmmm.
Can you please please give me what players would be involved IF Lecavalier was traded to toronto. I would just like to know your 'value' in the trade

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07-05-2011, 03:35 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Child View Post
Not quoting anyone;

Dude, I don't want Lecavalier at that deal, unless you throw in Connolly and take Komisarek, and then it's just a maybe.
hah. TB save little salary and gets a scrub and 2nd line injury prone centre in return. Leafs cant make a deal here without losing some of their young stars or prospects on ELC.

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07-05-2011, 03:40 PM
  #167
Phil Kessticle
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Originally Posted by Tuts View Post
Can you please please give me what players would be involved IF Lecavalier was traded to toronto. I would just like to know your 'value' in the trade
I wouldn't want to trade for him because what it would take to get him from Tampa would be more than i would want to part with. Its easy for people to say " oh just give them Komaserik and Grabovski" but thats not gonna happen its a pipe dream, no one wants Komaserik. Tampa was one game away from the final, they aren't looking to make any huge moves especially for nothing in return.

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07-05-2011, 03:50 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Phil Kessticle View Post
I wouldn't want to trade for him because what it would take to get him from Tampa would be more than i would want to part with. Its easy for people to say " oh just give them Komaserik and Grabovski" but thats not gonna happen its a pipe dream, no one wants Komaserik. Tampa was one game away from the final, they aren't looking to make any huge moves especially for nothing in return.
OK fair enough but isnt this the purpose of these threads? You dont have to come into a thread and just shoot down a proposal, try making the trade better by offering what you think is fair

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07-05-2011, 04:04 PM
  #169
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Very true i will not post in ridiculous threads anymore, i am new to this

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07-05-2011, 05:48 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If I was the Leafs, I wouldn't trade for him because you are not and should not be in the win now mode, you should be building for the future.

If you want Vinny now and want to put an offer for him, the starting point would have to be Grabovski/Kulemin+Kadri+pick.

Vinny's value went back up with the way he ended the season and his play in the playoffs. Yes, he has a bad contract, but right now he is still a very good player that does not have to be traded, so his value is high. He is not like Campbell where his contract and play are so bad that it hinders the team in making moves. He is still productive and the Lightning still have cap space.

If the Lightning are going to trade Vinny on the cheap, they will only do it until they have to. Maybe one Hedman needs his extension, but right now they do not have to trade him.
OK so if it's Kulemin, Kadri, and a pick (I will assume it's a high pick since you are saying Vinny's value is high)...that's basically a fairly equal package to what Jeff Carter and Mike Richards fetched...even though I am a Leaf fan I try and use other trades as templates rather than simply claiming to know the value of anyone...I can't see how you can say that Vinny's trade value is equal to Carter or Richards?

Nobody wants Vinny that bad. As a Leafs fan, I want Vinny because his price would be deflated because of his contract and mediocre play of the past few seasons....yes he played good at the end of the season and playoff, but that doesn't erase the the way he's played over the last few years. His value might have gone up after the playoffs but not to the point where a team doesn't look at his contract as a hindrance. A team trading for Lecav is taking a huge risk and thus would be buying on the cheap...otherwise he won't be coming to Toronto, and I know we can at least agree on that

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07-05-2011, 06:03 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by rye&ginger View Post
hah. TB save little salary and gets a scrub and 2nd line injury prone centre in return. Leafs cant make a deal here without losing some of their young stars or prospects on ELC.
Actually they'd save 3.2 per year of salary and five years of term. He's already 31, and TB has a fine replacement in Stamkos and isn't in a position to pay a 2nd-line center 7.7.

Once more; Lecavalier + Connolly for Komisarek maybe. With that deal he's not worth Kulemin, or Kadri, or anything valuable without parting with something more valuable.


Last edited by Voodoo Child: 07-05-2011 at 06:11 PM.
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07-05-2011, 06:04 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Phil Kessticle View Post
Very true i will not post in ridiculous threads anymore, i am new to this
dude you came to the wrong site...all threads are like this

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07-05-2011, 06:32 PM
  #173
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Considering how great he played from the all star break onward with a variety of wingers, i'll keep him. He really became a two way threat.

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07-05-2011, 06:37 PM
  #174
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I not sure I'd want anyone for the next ten years but if I did it would not be a guy who has had a fall in production.

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07-05-2011, 06:44 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Bert Corbeau View Post
OK so if it's Kulemin, Kadri, and a pick (I will assume it's a high pick since you are saying Vinny's value is high)...that's basically a fairly equal package to what Jeff Carter and Mike Richards fetched...even though I am a Leaf fan I try and use other trades as templates rather than simply claiming to know the value of anyone...I can't see how you can say that Vinny's trade value is equal to Carter or Richards?

Nobody wants Vinny that bad. As a Leafs fan, I want Vinny because his price would be deflated because of his contract and mediocre play of the past few seasons....yes he played good at the end of the season and playoff, but that doesn't erase the the way he's played over the last few years. His value might have gone up after the playoffs but not to the point where a team doesn't look at his contract as a hindrance. A team trading for Lecav is taking a huge risk and thus would be buying on the cheap...otherwise he won't be coming to Toronto, and I know we can at least agree on that
The difference between the Richards and Carter situation was that the Flyers were looking to trade them and Tampa is not looking to trade Vinny. As I said earlier, the only value to Vinny that matters is the value that Tampa has of him, not of what other teams have of him. The Flyers had to trade Carter and Richards at the market value because they were looking to trade them, but the Lightning won't trade Vinny for anything less than what they want because they don't have to or are looking to trade him.

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