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Offseason Movement Thread II (Acq./Rstr. Bldg./Cap Mgt.)

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Old
07-10-2011, 10:27 PM
  #426
Langway
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Presto. Blip blip blop.

His paycheck is all the guarantee he needs. The Caps were always going to hedge their bets and use leverage until performance dictated the course. Varlamov made their decision for them for the time being and, under the circumstances, it's pretty amazing they got the return they did.

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07-10-2011, 11:20 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Varly didn't expect to be handed the #1 job in DC, in the KHL or now for the Avs. Though it wouldn't surprise me if his agent floated that thought--agents do things like that.

Varly saw the writing on the wall: the Caps' management are a bunch of losers. He wants to win and he will win.


Don't even know what to say...

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Old
07-10-2011, 11:23 PM
  #428
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Is there a consensus as to what is needed to get this team to the next level? Like who should be moved or what positions need upgrading?

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07-10-2011, 11:23 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Varly didn't expect to be handed the #1 job in DC, in the KHL or now for the Avs. Though it wouldn't surprise me if his agent floated that thought--agents do things like that.

Varly saw the writing on the wall: the Caps' management are a bunch of losers. He wants to win and he will win.
This begs the question, what about Vokoun?

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Old
07-11-2011, 01:33 AM
  #430
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Yeah, I mean, what better way to show you want to win than leaving for an inferior league or going to a team that had the #2 overall pick this past draft (and two top 3 picks in the last 3 drafts)?

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07-11-2011, 02:55 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post


Don't even know what to say...
Agreed. Some of the crap said here is unfathomable!

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07-11-2011, 04:43 AM
  #432
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This begs the question, what about Vokoun?

I like Vokoun. It will be interesting to see how he does. He has won a total of 3 playoff games. Fewer than Varly. Fewer than Neuvy.

He's a good goalie though he hasn't yet proven to be a great one.

But isn't it plain that Ted, McPhee, and Boudreau have been timid about the goalie posish for years? The goalie situation was so uncertain just last week that a desperate #1 goalie became available for peanuts and McPhee said, "Sure, why not?" McPhee has had many years to establish a #1 goalie (at least since Olie left town) and, as of last week, he still hadn't done it.

It's wishy-washy, hand-wringing, deer-in-the-headlights management.

Let's imagine Vokoun takes the Caps to the ECF. Then what? Our goalie posish is still not established because we won't be able to afford him next year.

Semin's long-term status is up in the air. Alzner isn't getting the deal he wants apparently. We have no 2C or 3C unless Backstrom is the 2C.

All teams have question marks but successful teams don't have this many question marks that go unanswered year after year.


Last edited by Atlas: 07-11-2011 at 04:49 AM.
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07-11-2011, 06:06 AM
  #433
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Games?

What do we think Alzners agent would be wanting if Alzner was here a full year earlier in our presidents season? Plus 50.

Instead we put him into a position to fail. Not deliberate, but a bad move to do to a kid like Alzner. Making him a risk taking RD as his only chance to make the team two years ago.... stupid. I am not arguing this again.

There is a rich free agent market out there and you know it. George of all GMs paid a 1st for an RFA right. Alzners agent sees this.

Its a conspiracy!

No. Its money grubbing and hockey.


well....as for a couple years ago, they were cruising to presidents trophy. Hard to say he was needed. How is any of this putting him in a position to fail? IMO he wasnt good enough, night after night a couple years back. His time in the AHL is proving to be quality developement....again, like countless other players before.

nice job of just assuming that Alzner goes +50 two seasons ago.....its fair to point out that in the 21 games he did play he was a minus player. Sucks it doesnt support your point though.....

and no....its business, its really is

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Old
07-11-2011, 07:14 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by mondo3 View Post
Is there a consensus as to what is needed to get this team to the next level? Like who should be moved or what positions need upgrading?
a new owner. that would mean a new gm. that would mean a new coach.

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Old
07-11-2011, 07:36 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
well....as for a couple years ago, they were cruising to presidents trophy. Hard to say he was needed. How is any of this putting him in a position to fail? IMO he wasnt good enough, night after night a couple years back. His time in the AHL is proving to be quality developement....again, like countless other players before.

nice job of just assuming that Alzner goes +50 two seasons ago.....its fair to point out that in the 21 games he did play he was a minus player. Sucks it doesnt support your point though.....

and no....its business, its really is
Why did he struggle in the past playoffs if he had such quality development time in Hershey? Fact is he had one NHL Playoff game under is belt. Something you think is meaningless obviously. You value the AHL experience much more than me.

We were rebuilding, it was foolish to shun him during those years he was in Hershey for a guy that is now a 7/8/waived.

Sure I can assume he was +50 if he was with Green all that monster year. Yes, he ended up a minus. Sarge would probably be too if he took the risks Alzner was asked to take, paired with Sloan and Erskine, at right D, as a kid that was never allowed to play his own game. His game is not taking risks.

You noticed just 6 months later, at LEFT DEFENSE his NATURAL position, partnered with a guy that compliments his game, his plus minus exceeded Sarge's. We took first in the conference, close to a presidents. Did he learn to play hockey in those final months of 2010? No. he was simply put in a better place to succeed.

Again, we were rebuilding. The presidents trophy wasnt planned, wasnt expected, wasnt the goal. The goal is to build an annual contender, year after year. Shunning your future, for guys like SMo and Sloan, shunning your top picks that were ready, during a rebuild is stupid. I don't care how you spin it.

You think Alzner wasnt ready in January 2010, I call bunk. Difference of opines.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 07-11-2011 at 07:49 AM.
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Old
07-11-2011, 07:44 AM
  #436
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You do realize that Alzner was concussed in the playoffs in 2008-09, right? He couldn't have played. So you're quibbling over 6 games last year, in essence. Does 6 playoff games make that much of a difference?

You've still provided virtually no evidence that Alzner's development was hurt, at all, by the way he was brought along. Sure, he struggled for part of this past playoffs, Who on the team didn't?

Again, of the Cap's defensemen, he was the best defensively (and most mistake-free) in his first full NHL season. How is his development even a minor point of contention? I don't think we could ask for more of him at his age.

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Old
07-11-2011, 07:55 AM
  #437
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He wanted to be HANDED the starting job not have to earn it. Seriously what are you on?
No he wanted to be handed a starting goaltender's paycheck and he wanted it for 3 years so he wouldn't have to worry before the next Olympics.

I completely understand why the Caps weren't willing to give him that and also why the Avs would.

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Old
07-11-2011, 08:11 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You do realize that Alzner was concussed in the playoffs in 2008-09, right? He couldn't have played. So you're quibbling over 6 games last year, in essence. Does 6 playoff games make that much of a difference?
If this is about playoff experience then actually he is quibbling over 1 game, game 4 against the Habs where Sloan played instead of Alzner getting the call up.

But yeah that 1 game of extra playoff experience for Alzner probably means beating Tampa instead of getting swept...

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Old
07-11-2011, 08:51 AM
  #439
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Anyone else think we should dress Hanson for all games against the Predators?

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Old
07-11-2011, 08:54 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post

Why did he struggle in the past playoffs if he had such quality development time in Hershey? Fact is he had one NHL Playoff game under is belt. Something you think is meaningless obviously. You value the AHL experience much more than me.

We were rebuilding, it was foolish to shun him during those years he was in Hershey for a guy that is now a 7/8/waived.

Sure I can assume he was +50 if he was with Green all that monster year. Yes, he ended up a minus. Sarge would probably be too if he took the risks Alzner was asked to take, paired with Sloan and Erskine, at right D, as a kid that was never allowed to play his own game. His game is not taking risks.

You noticed just 6 months later, at LEFT DEFENSE his NATURAL position, partnered with a guy that compliments his game, his plus minus exceeded Sarge's. We took first in the conference, close to a presidents. Did he learn to play hockey in those final months of 2010? No. he was simply put in a better place to succeed.

Again, we were rebuilding. The presidents trophy wasnt planned, wasnt expected, wasnt the goal. The goal is to build an annual contender, year after year. Shunning your future, for guys like SMo and Sloan, shunning your top picks that were ready, during a rebuild is stupid. I don't care how you spin it.

You think Alzner wasnt ready in January 2010, I call bunk. Difference of opines.
Personally...it wasnt until a month, or two, into this past season that I thought Alzner really turned a corner. A month into this past season I wasnt convinced his top end wasnt more than a decent player.....but I generally feel that way about prospects until I see otherwise. A few good games here and there with off games in between is what I expect from young players, especially defensmen....

You call it shunning, I call it develop

You think this team was in a "rebuild" mode the season they cruised to the top spot in the regular season? Planned or not (President trophy) they were a team looking to make a serious Cup run going into that season. The notion that they were "rebuilding" is a far out reach on your part to try to prove some imaginary point.

You are so off here....im not even sure what point you are trying to make other than you hate everything about the Caps, other than the Caps. Hate the coach, the owner, the GM.....many of the players...

so what is it, Alzner is going to "teach them a lesson"?

His current play has nothing to do with the way he was brought along?

That had he been brought up earlier...and put in the perfect situations you speak of above (ideal side/partner) he would be better now?

The fact that he wasnt means this was all planned and a conspiracy by mgmt to keep is contract down?

I dont know how you keep up with all of these theories

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Old
07-11-2011, 09:05 AM
  #441
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I think I've probably been on record as saying Alzner should have been up sooner, but even for me it was more about who they chose to keep in his place (f'ing Morrisonn) rather than worrying that they'd hurt his feelings or stunt his development. I mean I think it might have helped him to take his lumps and adjust to the NHL speed a bit earlier, but given the way he played this past season I can't say that it hurt him much, if at all.

And I don't believe for a second that that was enough to make him want to play hard ball as an RFA. He's a tough guy to find comparables for, and I'm sure he (and his agent) knows it. He's worth more than his stats suggest and he doesn't have a ton of leverage, so it's no surprise that the negotiations would draw out a little (not that I'd call even them drawn out yet).

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Old
07-11-2011, 09:07 AM
  #442
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Have a seat right here.... That's okay. Just have a seat.

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Old
07-11-2011, 09:37 AM
  #443
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AHL = Its more like the Amateur Hockey League than a hair behind the NHL in talent. Its for guys that need to mature mentally and physically, and for guys that are not good enough for the NHL. He needed none of that.

You can say he had to be there to get stronger or learn offense, I still call bunk. If we won a cup with him in Hershey, I will buy the argument. We choked without him. Our defense was largely horrendous without him. Injury prone, inconsistent, ineffective. Since his arrival, our offense is in taters, our defense, found its footing. Did Hershey make him a player. Hell no. He was a player when we drafted him.

I just wish he was here during the rebuild like Ovi Nick Sarge Green. I feel his development would have been expedited being with his peers here as they all learned how to play NHL playoff hockey. My feeling on this is not up for debate. Get over it.

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07-11-2011, 09:45 AM
  #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Varly didn't expect to be handed the #1 job in DC, in the KHL or now for the Avs. Though it wouldn't surprise me if his agent floated that thought--agents do things like that.

Varly saw the writing on the wall: the Caps' management are a bunch of losers. He wants to win and he will win.
I've been lurking this offseason, because I don't like to frustrate myself about hockey when there's none to watch, but I honestly have to say that sometimes the simplest thought is the correct one.

Varly had been slotted to be the #1 for two years in a row. Two years in a row, he's shown a stunning inability to stay healthy.

What his injuries have to do with management being 'a bunch of losers', I'll never know. I mean, what do healthy starting NHL goalies average? Nearly 60 games a year? Dude didn't even manage 60 in two years.

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07-11-2011, 09:47 AM
  #445
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Its for guys that need to mature mentally and physically, and for guys that are not good enough for the NHL. He needed none of that.

You can say he had to be there to get stronger or learn offense, I still call bunk.
He had to be there to get stronger. That and adjusting to the pace of play were issues prior to establishing himself as a regular. Maybe it was just a matter of confidence in managing his relative strength but IMO he wasn't in the AHL just biding his time with zero to work on.

Another factor in his progression is his chemistry with Carlson. Had he been in DC sooner that wouldn't have been nearly as established and I don't think either player would be as good as they are now.

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07-11-2011, 09:52 AM
  #446
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Probably a Hershey Bear but he could also push Beagle/Sjogren/Eakin for a depth spot.

Christian is Dave's son, who played with Boudreau 35 years ago.
Walton just confirmed the signing...if it wasnt already confirmed.

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07-11-2011, 09:55 AM
  #447
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
AHL = Its more like the Amateur Hockey League than a hair behind the NHL in talent. Its for guys that need to mature mentally and physically, and for guys that are not good enough for the NHL. He needed none of that.

You can say he had to be there to get stronger or learn offense, I still call bunk. If we won a cup with him in Hershey, I will buy the argument. We choked without him. Our defense was largely horrendous without him. Injury prone, inconsistent, ineffective. Since his arrival, our offense is in taters, our defense, found its footing. Did Hershey make him a player. Hell no. He was a player when we drafted him.

I just wish he was here during the rebuild like Ovi Nick Sarge Green. I feel his development would have been expedited being with his peers here as they all learned how to play NHL playoff hockey. My feeling on this is not up for debate. Get over it.
im not trying to debate you....I think you are flat out way off base in your attempt to look for reasons to hate mgmt, there is no debate.

If memory serves me the biggest reason they lost to the Habs wasnt defense, it was because they could not score.....especially on the PP. Alzner helps that how?

The AHL is the top Developmental league. You can assume all you want that Alzner was ready the minute he was drafted. History on that subject works against you.....its well believed that defensive defenseman take time to find an NHL game.

Its funny to see you talk against yourself. So Alzner needed no time in the AHL and could have played in the NHL from the start. To quote you "He needed none of that".
That said, he needed to be paired with just the right guy (not "paired with Sloan and Erskine"), and only on the side he prefers (not "at right D") to be effective....but, he was ready and needed no time to develop

you are becoming quite the source of ammusment

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Old
07-11-2011, 10:05 AM
  #448
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When Alzner had one of his longer stretchess of call-up duty, one of things I remember thinking was that he needed to get stronger. He looked positionally ready to handle things, but he lost the majority of his physical board battles. None of us can say one way or the other how things would have gone had they thrown him into the lineup full time earlier. There are too many variables to consider. To speak definitively on the subject one way or the other is folly.

I still am at a loss in regards to RH's line of thinking that Alzner (and the other LD) were forced into a much more offensive mindset that they were comfortable with. I was often left wanting to see them try to hold the blue line more than they did. Did Erskine or Schultz get blown past on occasion on a failed pitch? Sure. Did it happen frequently because they were pushing the envelope? I didn't see it.

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07-11-2011, 10:15 AM
  #449
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I like Vokoun. It will be interesting to see how he does. He has won a total of 3 playoff games. Fewer than Varly. Fewer than Neuvy.

He's a good goalie though he hasn't yet proven to be a great one.

But isn't it plain that Ted, McPhee, and Boudreau have been timid about the goalie posish for years? The goalie situation was so uncertain just last week that a desperate #1 goalie became available for peanuts and McPhee said, "Sure, why not?" McPhee has had many years to establish a #1 goalie (at least since Olie left town) and, as of last week, he still hadn't done it.

It's wishy-washy, hand-wringing, deer-in-the-headlights management.

Let's imagine Vokoun takes the Caps to the ECF. Then what? Our goalie posish is still not established because we won't be able to afford him next year.

Semin's long-term status is up in the air. Alzner isn't getting the deal he wants apparently. We have no 2C or 3C unless Backstrom is the 2C.

All teams have question marks but successful teams don't have this many question marks that go unanswered year after year.
Truly you have a dizzying intellect.

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07-11-2011, 10:20 AM
  #450
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I'm sure Ken Hilland would love to know that the AHL is the Amateur Hockey League and apparently no good for development. Maybe then he'd stop using it so much.

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