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Redden will report to camp

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Old
08-22-2011, 10:59 PM
  #151
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hope he has a great year in hartford this year

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08-22-2011, 11:09 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
I'm so tired of this discussion. Pride, passion, desire--no one knows in what quantities a player possesses those traits. It's silly to pretend we do. And it's all relative, anyway: one guy that can no longer hack it may retire due to his pride, while another guy may hang on and refuse to acknowledge he's done due to his pride. Diamterically opposed results derived from the same circumstance, spurred by the same emotion--pride. Let's stop pretending that pride must manifest itself in others the way it manifests in ourselves.
I don't think this has anything to do with pride, anyway.

It has everything to do with cash.

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Old
08-22-2011, 11:22 PM
  #153
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At least he's actually friggin playing hockey he just absolutely sucks and is one of the biggest drains on the cap in the history of all of sports. Still I don't actually begrudge him for continueing to take his pay even though I hate him for being a pos on the ice.

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08-22-2011, 11:38 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
This is splitting hairs, but I hate the 'players don't get paid in the playoffs' line. Yeah, I know they don't get a paycheck, but the very generous ones they recieve throughout the year make up for that. They get paid to play hockey, regardless of how long the season is, and as such they get paid for the pre-season, the season, the playoffs and the off-season.

Yeah it's a stupid thing to get worked up about, but for some reason it really gets my goat....
I totally agree. I didn't mean to imply the opposite. I was just referring to my earlier post in which I sarcastically suggested that Redden could be called up during the playoffs if we suffered a few injuries on D and his 6.5 mil cap-hit would be irrelevant.

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08-23-2011, 04:15 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Chimp View Post
No kidding, that was exactly what I was thinking when I saw this thread popping up again. What a difference monumentale there can be between three letters called NMC. While Drury's lethal* contract gave so much agony you'd think New York would chronically run out of weed, Redden's horror show of a contract was solved with a yawn. Well ok, not so much of a yawn, but a gigantic cheer from a board of mass depression, who never thought... ... this man would ever be logical, smart or humble enough to admit his own chain train wrecks of mistakes and at least waive Redden like he deserved. Well, what do you know, a couple of years later and the three stooges are all finally gone (and Sather has hopefully learnt his lesson, especially after the fans were so eager after his head, a rally was formed).

*I once heard of a man who died of a heartattack, just because he accidentally clicked on the Rangers on cap geek and saw Drury's contract. That man was merely 23 years old.
Well hopefully the fiscal insanity is over. When your team pays big money to players you want results. Of the three huge contracts we have I don't worry about Henrik--I want Richards to more or less do what he's always done and Gaborik needs to rebound a bit. Those things happen and we should have a good year barring tons of injuries.

As for Wade--he's not been a problem but it also can be said that for him the money comes before his pride as a player. If he actually believes he's going to return some day to the NHL as a regular he can kiss that goodbye. His only shot at that is to walk away from his contract and the longer he waits to do that the more whatever skills he has left are going to deteriorate.

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08-23-2011, 07:16 AM
  #156
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The Rangers can place Redden on waivers 12 days before the NHL begins on October 6. Saturday September 24 is the first day of waivers. Camp begins on September 16. Will the Rangers invite Redden to their camp or will Redden go straight to the Whale camp which starts later that month?

The new CBA will most likely have a compliance buyout period. Redden could be bought out next summer with $10M remaining on his contract. Won't count against the cap. Redden would receive his buyout money in the remaining term of the contract. Not twice the term. Those were the terms of compliance buyout period in the current CBA.

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08-23-2011, 07:19 AM
  #157
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Assuming Staal,Girardi,McDonagh,Sauer,Erixon,MDZ and Eminger are the top 7.

The Whale would have 9 NHL contracts

Redden
Bell
Valentenko
Kundratek
Parlett
Niemi
Baldwin
Bickel
Klassen-ECHL bound

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Old
08-23-2011, 07:39 AM
  #158
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Why not lend him to Switzerland to play out his career? Nice place to live in, nice paycheck and will take a bigger role on another team.
Why not Tripolis?

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08-23-2011, 09:00 AM
  #159
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Well, I guess many of us are transitioning from the Drury thread to the Redden thread.

We live in a consumer/capitalist society where for the large majority of people, a person's sense of self-worth as measured against others, is determined by how much money they make. Not a knock, but that is just how it is.

We live in a sports culture defined by a scarcity of skills where teams feel they must lock up athletes with multi-year deals (even though they know that they might not get max effort from players whose contracts are guaranteed) and players have the leverage to demand those contracts.

We live in difficult economic times and the future is uncertain.

Given all of this, plus the fact that athletes have only a limited window to maximize their earnings and that a career can end in an instant, can we truly and realistically expect athletes not to put money near or at the top of the priority list? To do so would go counter to human nature and the mores of our society.

Yes, there is such a thing as pride, a value we all admire. There is also "swallowing your pride" in order to attain something of value. Swallowing your pride is an aphorism that has stood the test of time because in a grudging way, it is something that is understood.

That is what Redden is doing: he is swallowing his pride in order to make mega bucks. I dare say, despite the righteousness of many on the boards, most would do the same.

To me, the larger question is not Redden (or Drury) but the whole issue of aging in athletes. Every one of us has a built in, genetically determined aging clock. In some professions, such as with athletes, high end physicists and computer software engineers (and also many others I can't think of at the moment), aging begins to manifest itself earlier than in most "normal" professions.

Those hockey players whose games depend on quickness more than anything else; the ability to see the ice, read plays, and react by putting themselves in the right position (on defensive) and make quick passes or get of quick shots (on offense), are the most vulnerable to aging.

Redden was on of those guys. I've always felt that an athlete was at his peak between ages 28-32 though I recently read an article that made the point that most scientists and doctors involved with athletes think that a player's physical peak occurs between 26-30. Certainly some factors: experience, conditioning, nutrition, can delay aging a bit and extend a players peak years. But every athlete is different; for some, they begin to lose that quickness in their late twenties; for other rarer athletes, they are able to produce well into their 30s.

Redden lost it early. He was already losing it before the lock-out; the style of play after the lock out only made it worse for him. My anger is not directed at him but at Ranger management, who for some reason just didn't see it. Ottawa fans and writers saw it, many of us saw it, but Sather gave him an absurd contract that no way under the sun was Redden going to turn down saying "hey, I'm not worth it, not the player I once was."

Once he had signed the contract, what did Redden owe us? He owed us staying in shape, giving his max effort, and playing to the best of his abilities. Did he do that? Well, I seem to recall Torts having to yell at him about effort. After that, it didn't seem a problem. The bottom line seems to me to have been "playing to the best of his abilities" became a steadily lowering bar. Because of aging, over which he had little control, the best of his abilities was less and less each year.

So now we are stuck with him. I count myself lucky to be a fan of an organization that can afford to bury a guy in the minors and pay him 6 million dollars a year. Hardly any other organization can do that.

And, Ranger fans, have we learned our lesson? No we have not. I was 100% in favor of signing Brad Richards (truth be told, I was totally for signing Gomez and Drury, 100% against signing Redden). I have always admired his skill set and the way he plays the game from afar and I am thrilled no end that he is here. But the red flags are out and flying. He is 31 years old and suffered a pretty severe concussion. He is another athlete whose game is largely dependent on quickness and the ability to read and react. Yes, I know he is a gym rat and his work ethic is impeccable. But we could begin to see aging from him this year. He easily can suffer another concussion. Each year that passes makes him more prone to other injuries. All we can do is hope that he is one of those athletes who ages slower than others. Nobody knows at what speed his internal genetic aging clock is ticking. All we know is that it is ticking. Guaranteed, even though is contract is front-loaded, BR's contract will become an albatross around the neck of this franchise. Hopefully, he will lead us to the promised land before than. Every free agent contract for a player on the wrong side of 30 is a gamble. Sometimes you win, often you lose.

I am not defending Redden; I don't even want to see his face at training camp. But he does seem to have a good job mentoring our young D with the Whale. I do think I understand his actions, however. Given our society, our sports culture, the nature and arc of athletic careers, and Redden's individual skill set and situation, though I might think that this was the worst contract in NHL history, and that I wish he would go to Europe, break his contract or do something else to get him out of our hair forever, I understand his actions. But he was terrible, wasn't he?

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08-23-2011, 09:09 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by alkurtz View Post
Lots of good words and brilliant input
Couldn't have said it better myself. I find it hilarious and not just a little bit hypocritical that people are sitting here flaming him for cashing in instead of doing whatever the majority of people would want him to do. Fact is that I'm quite confident that every single one of the people on this board would take the money as well.

Players are being treated like property, and that's the way it is in the game. They get traded, bought out, demoted to the pressbox or sent down to the minors. That's how the business works. And really, it's BUSINESS, so if Redden wants to take his money, more power to him I say. The situation isn't ideal obviously but he has every right to do what he's doing and shouldn't be flamed or hated for it (especially when every single one would do the exact same thing most likely). If he was to walk out on the money, he should be praised. If he doesn't, we should just accept it. It's business.

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08-23-2011, 09:27 AM
  #161
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There's no salary cap in the playoffs. If the Rangers ever hit a serious run of injuries (think Vancouver last year) he could be a useful replacement.

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08-23-2011, 09:58 AM
  #162
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One of the knocks on Redden is that he didn't keep himself in good shape. Redden would have been the perfect player before the 1990s when players would lose a step and retire in their early 30s. They came to training camp to get into shape and barely skated in the summer. When a player like Redden signs a huge contract,the onus is on him to live up to that contract and the fans will get on him when he doesn't. AJ Burnett is another example of a player not living up to the contract. Every athlete is different. Marty St. Louis was a Hart trophy finalist at 35. That NHL scout saw Redden in the AHL last year and called him a "pacer". Redden will collect his $6.5M salary in the AHL with no escrow deductions and he won't count against the cap. Hopefully there is a compliance buyout period with the new CBA and Redden can try to resume a NHL career with another team.

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08-23-2011, 10:12 AM
  #163
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Quote:
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Guaranteed, even though is contract is front-loaded, BR's contract will become an albatross around the neck of this franchise. Hopefully, he will lead us to the promised land before than. Every free agent contract for a player on the wrong side of 30 is a gamble. Sometimes you win, often you lose.
I'd say one was a MUCH bigger gamble than the other though. Redden was probably Sather's 4th or 5th choice after guys he wanted more turned him down. Richards on the other hand was Tortorella's first choice to address a specific need.

Also hard to compare the point in time for the 2008 team compared to today's. They were coming off a disappointing season for the previous summers' UFA signings and lost Jagr to unrestricted free agency. Sather's plan was already falling apart and I don't think anyone believed that a 2nd pairing d-man was an answer to getting things back on track.

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08-23-2011, 10:35 AM
  #164
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Yes, it is Sather's fault for giving the guy a huge contract, but WAY to many people are failing to realize that a professional with integrity earns his contract. Wade has in no way shape opr form lived up to his end of the bargain. He hasn't played like a 7 million, a 6 million, a 5 million or even a 4 million dollar defenseman. Yes, Shame on Sather for giving him the contract, but ya know what, shame on Wade for not showing some integrity and doing the right thing and hanging them up. He is hurting the team that he was paid a boatload of money to help. At this point to say its not his fault is unfair. Originally it was not his fault....today, Wade is letting greed get in the way of integrity. If he still though he was worth a damn, he'd walk away and sign a deal elsewhere and compete at the games highest level. He's a bum now, a washed up bum collecting a paycheck for doing nothing. To me he is the posterboy for players that lack integrity and passion. He's an burden on his club and will never be remembered for anything other than that.

EDIT- And in my opinion the team hasn't done enough to embaress him or shame him into retiring. He cannot meet his end of the contract. He wasn't paid to just show up and suck, he was paid to produce, which he cant anymore. Show some class and retire.
This is themost unrealistic and nonsensical viewpointpossible on this. I hate Redden for being a pos as a hockey player per dollar but giving up 18 mil over 3 years is NOT integrity it's pure stupidity andso is legitamately thinking that people in Wade's shoes should just quit and leave that much onthe table. This is pure fan entitlement at its finest. At least with Drury he isn't even playing this year so people are pissed but with Wade he just sucks eggs and Sather was a moron who paid him more than his play dictated so the team suffers. This is all Sather here.

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I
They were coming off a disappointing season for the previous summers' UFA signings and lost Jagr to unrestricted free agency.
More like it was a choice between overpaying for guys like Dru, Gomez and Redden for much longer or overpaying Jagr for much less time and keeping your capt and fan favorite so they chose other. They didn't exactly get poached by a team in UFA they let him go without a fight

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08-23-2011, 10:41 AM
  #165
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I'd say one was a MUCH bigger gamble than the other though. Redden was probably Sather's 4th or 5th choice after guys he wanted more turned him down. Richards on the other hand was Tortorella's first choice to address a specific need.
Just curious, who rejected us? I remember Orpik, but who else?

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08-23-2011, 12:31 PM
  #166
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Why would Redden give up 6+ mil per year to play in the AHL versus getting like 1.5 mil to play third pairing minutes in the NHL. I fully expect him to ride out this contract to the very end

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08-23-2011, 12:48 PM
  #167
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Redden isn't going to give up $6M annually to 'help the team out'. This isn't a situation that is similar to Drury's, where him giving up the money was at least somewhat feasible - I'm not going to blame the guy for continuing to play. Honestly, I'm fine with Redden in Hartford. By all accounts he's a great team guy - there is an article of McDonagh praising Redden for teaching him. As long as he's not interfering with the cap down there, I'm content with him staying at the AHL. If there are complaince buyouts, buy him out. Simple as that.

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08-23-2011, 12:50 PM
  #168
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More like it was a choice between overpaying for guys like Dru, Gomez and Redden for much longer or overpaying Jagr for much less time and keeping your capt and fan favorite so they chose other. They didn't exactly get poached by a team in UFA they let him go without a fight
It wasn't really that cut and dry. Jagr should have had another year under contract but failed to trigger the performance triggers. The Rangers made him an offer that he walked away from to go play for Avangard Omsk at a higher, untaxed price.

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Just curious, who rejected us? I remember Orpik, but who else?
I'm not sure we know for sure, but I believe an offer was made to Campbell. You'd have to guess that Sather at least kicked the tires on Streit and hoped that maybe someone like Liles or Numminen would test the market.

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08-23-2011, 01:17 PM
  #169
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I'm reading a lot of hate towards Redden, yea his contract can be strangling to us and yea he is getting paid like an elite defenceman to play in the AHL, but can you blame him for collecting the money?
Last year I got a phone call from a guy who found my business card at a coffee shop. He said he found a house but needed an agent to do the paperwork to close the deal. I closed the deal and made $32,000 and it took me literally an hour to do all the work. Should I have told him "no sir, I just got lucky that a relocating surgeon from Saudi Arabia found my business card that a friend left on a table at a Second Cup coffee shop, I don't deserve the money"
No I shouldn't have, I was happy with that $32,000 and I'm sure Wade Redden is happy with his $6.5M

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08-23-2011, 01:33 PM
  #170
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If I was Redden I would most likely be doing the same thing. It was pretty obvious he lost quite a few steps and is no longer an NHL quality player. Him and his family get to live comfirtable and he doesn't have to worry about increased chance of injury or training to the max to be in NHL shape just to be pubically rediculed for something he can't possible achieve.

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08-24-2011, 03:12 AM
  #171
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It wasn't really that cut and dry. Jagr should have had another year under contract but failed to trigger the performance triggers. The Rangers made him an offer that he walked away from to go play for Avangard Omsk at a higher, untaxed price.
Wasn't a competitive offer if I remember right and since no NHL team signed him it wasn't UFA that poached him exactly but you're right not cut and dry. It's a tomatoe tomahtoe thing anyway I dunno even know why I mentioned it.

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08-24-2011, 03:18 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
There's no salary cap in the playoffs. If the Rangers ever hit a serious run of injuries (think Vancouver last year) he could be a useful replacement.
Would Redden have to pass through re-entry waivers if called up during the playoffs?

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08-24-2011, 04:25 AM
  #173
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Bottom line--you sign a contract for $6.5 mil per year and are expected to be a Number 1 d-man--at least a Number 2 and your play equals out to a bottom 6 sometimes scratch then you should expect you're going to hear about it from the fans whether or not your GM was dumb enough to put that huge contract and the pen to sign it with in your hands. We can say it's not his fault--it's the GM's fault but you're still the guy on the ice either living up to that contract or not and the fans only give a rats ass how much you make because they want a team that can win now and are not going to be happy waiting for your contract to run out so that the GM can start all over again and do it right the next time--considering the fact that because of the salary cap a team is limited in the amount of really big contracts it can hand out--when someone like Redden completely falls apart it really effects the compete level of the team.

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08-24-2011, 10:20 AM
  #174
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An addendum regarding aging in athletes and the dangers of signing free agents over 30.

There is an amazing chart called the "50-Goal Club" found in the just published Hockey New Yearbook that shows the ages of every athlete who scored over 50 goals.

If I have counted correctly, the have been 186 50 goal seasons by individuals. Only 9 have been by players 31 or older. Even by age 28, the numbers are dwindling.,

Make it appear that the common wisdom of an athlete's prime as 28-32 is incorrect. Makes it seem as if the information I read earlier this summer regarding aging in athletes where medical people and scientists suggested a peak of 26-30 is also wrong. From the limited sample of hockey 50 goal scorers, it seems as if a hockey players peak is in his mid 20s.

Perhaps for defensemen who accumulate experience it is a little older (but harder to quantify). It again points out the dangers of signing older free agents to long term contracts.

And perhaps puts a little more urgency into the next season or two as our young core reaches their mid 20s.

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08-24-2011, 10:52 AM
  #175
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I want to hate Redden for handcuffing our cap, but I really can't. I don't know where the "lazy" assumption comes from, because by all accounts he's been working hard in every offseason since he signed that ridiculous contract. He's simply declined to the point that he can't crack our roster. He's taken his demotion with grace and class, and is doing well as a mentor to our young defensemen in Hartford. I was originally hoping that he could be lent to a team overseas and thus be removed from our cap, but it appears that isn't going to happen. I can't blame the man for not wanting to uproot his family. To breach his contract now would be beyond stupid. He can set his family up for life by swallowing his pride and riding the bus in the AHL.

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