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Our college players going pro

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07-30-2004, 12:24 PM
  #1
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Our college players going pro

I think the strength of our Hartford team and coaching staff is lost here on some. In know way could you convince me that any college team could teach a prospect more then our Hartford coaching staff. It obviously is attractive to college players to know that our Hartford team is so strong from the coaching on down. It's better for a young player to play under McGill then just about any other coach. Teach them at a younger age rather then let them get into bad habits at the college level.

People are making it seem like college is this great educational league for prospects. That simply isn't the case and especially when you match that against our Hartford coaching staff. I know way do I think a Taylor or Jessiman could learn more at the college level then on our Hartford team. It is time that people realize our Hartford team is no longer a place where prospects go to rot and learn nothing. Times have changed for the better.

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07-30-2004, 12:26 PM
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It seems to me that Minnesota fans are not objective in their opinions on Taylor and are making them out of selfish reasons that they want Taylor to stay on the team. I haven't heard any scouts rip Taylor with the negativity that some of these college hockey guru's are doing.

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07-30-2004, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
It is time that people realize our Hartford team is no longer a place where prospects go to rot and learn nothing.
Who EVER said that!?!?!?

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07-30-2004, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr.
Who EVER said that!?!?!?
I think he means a place that's full of non prospects rotting the team.

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07-30-2004, 12:55 PM
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but if they don't get ice time in Harford, how much can they learn by sitting on the bench?? They get ice time in college and unless they're good enough to play for Hartford, they won't learn jack. That's Y they don't turn pro immediately

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07-30-2004, 12:59 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
I haven't heard any scouts rip Taylor with the negativity that some of these college hockey guru's are doing.
Yeah, you're gonna hear scouts say that in the media.....

The fact is anyone who watched JT play his last few games of the season, Gopher fans or not, can tell you he has his flaws. One of them being, he doesn't always keep up with the pace, you'd like to see him work on his skating. Can he do that in Hartford or ECHL? Sure, but i think the opputunities in Minnesota would've enabled him to progress quicker.

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07-30-2004, 01:30 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
In know way could you convince me that any college team could teach a prospect more then our Hartford coaching staff. It obviously is attractive to college players to know that our Hartford team is so strong from the coaching on down. It's better for a young player to play under McGill then just about any other coach.
Bad habits at the college level? Uh.. D1 NCAA is exceptional, and an excellent place for young college kids to play. If I take your first sentence seriously, then this post is a complete waste of time since you've already turned yourself off to other perspectives.

But realize one thing. In college, you have 5 straight days of practice a week, which involves breaking down every single element of the game. Skating, positioning, passing, shooting, tactics, faceoffs, shot blocking, line changing, powerplay, penalty kill, pulled goalie situations, set plays, etc. Then you have 2 back to back days on the weekends to see if that worked... followed by 5 more days during the week to retune whatever went wrong.

College coaches are no chumps, not in any of the major 4 sports played in the US. The benefits of icetime in college are not to be ignored. Some players blossom under so much coaching attention. Others can just be pushed into a situation, and they'll learn to swim simply out of need (Hartford).

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07-30-2004, 01:33 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
I think the strength of our Hartford team and coaching staff is lost here on some. In know way could you convince me that any college team could teach a prospect more then our Hartford coaching staff. It obviously is attractive to college players to know that our Hartford team is so strong from the coaching on down. It's better for a young player to play under McGill then just about any other coach. Teach them at a younger age rather then let them get into bad habits at the college level.

People are making it seem like college is this great educational league for prospects. That simply isn't the case and especially when you match that against our Hartford coaching staff. I know way do I think a Taylor or Jessiman could learn more at the college level then on our Hartford team. It is time that people realize our Hartford team is no longer a place where prospects go to rot and learn nothing. Times have changed for the better.
you SERIOUSLY underrate the college game...if things were so much better in the AHL then every prospect would skip college, but that is NOT reality.

IF a player is ready, then yeah he'd probably learn more in the AHL, but that does NOT hold true all the time. most of the kids are still in school because they aren't ready yet

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07-30-2004, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burner10115
but if they don't get ice time in Harford, how much can they learn by sitting on the bench?? They get ice time in college and unless they're good enough to play for Hartford, they won't learn jack. That's Y they don't turn pro immediately
a team would be pretty stupid to sign a player in this situation if they weren't 100% sure that he was ready to make the jump and would be getting regular minutes...

the prospects need to play somewhere...so if the rangers sign (for example) taylor that should guarantee that he is in hartford's top 6 no matter what, otherwise it would make no sense for the rangers to sign him now

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07-30-2004, 01:52 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
a team would be pretty stupid to sign a player in this situation if they weren't 100% sure that he was ready to make the jump and would be getting regular minutes...

the prospects need to play somewhere...so if the rangers sign (for example) taylor that should guarantee that he is in hartford's top 6 no matter what, otherwise it would make no sense for the rangers to sign him now
If only Sather would sign some of our top European prospects now, like Immonen, Prucha and Marek. It would be the perfect way to compliment bringing up college players.

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07-30-2004, 03:50 PM
  #11
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blackisback: First off, I'm not ripping on Taylor. I've seen him play more than probably 95% of the people on this board. I like the guy and I wish him the best whereever he plays. Just because I think he'd be better served in the immediate future to stay at Minnesota doesn't mean I'm ditzing him. I just feel that with the impending possibility of an NHL work stoppage and with the battle for a roster spot in Hartford, Taylor would be better served staying at the "U" where he is guaranteed to play (barring injury or suspension).

Second, you must not keep up very well with the NCAA, because many of the coaches who coach in the NCAA are former pros themselves. Mike Eaves, Dave Poulin, Red Berenson, Scott Sandelin, Jim Culhane, and Ted Donato are among the NCAA head coaches who have spent time (to varying degrees) up in the NHL. All of these gentlemen bring a wealth of experience to their respective teams. But of course you probably already knew that, right?

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07-30-2004, 04:04 PM
  #12
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Black...

it's not a matter of underestimating what the Hartford coaching staff can do, it's a matter of a person developing physically and mentally and being ready to take step to the next level. There's a lot to be learned at the college level. There's a lot of good players, and if you're not up to speed there, or not dominating, perhaps you need some more time to learn the tricks, enhance speed and mechanics, and so forth.

As far as Taylor...I haven't seen him a lick and will rely on those who have seen him. It does appear as though he can use a bit of work, from what I'm reading. There's nothing wrong with being on a top pair, going against top lines, playing 20 minutes per night at the college level prior to turning pro. That is great experience, even when compared to playing in the AHL, which could be, for him, playing on a third pairing getting 7 minutes of ice time, often a healthy scratch, and quite possibly even shuttling back-and-forth b/t the ECHL and the AHL. If it ends up being the latter, then perhaps the former's better for him. Of course some feel that he ain't getting signed unless he's ready, and hopefully he is ready, but the jump from college to the AHL is not always a no-brainer.

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07-30-2004, 05:07 PM
  #13
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I think it all depends on the player.

I know the Flyers as an organization believe that if the player is a true "prospect" and not a "suspect" that they will turn him pro after his first or second season in college (usually the 2nd).

The Flyers generally believe that players get a bit "stale" at the NCAA level, and they'll only progress to a certain point and then plateau.

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07-30-2004, 05:31 PM
  #14
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The impression I get is that Ranger brass sees an opportunity to put together what they consider the core of the future right now at Hartford. And, if there is a lockout, they will be able to fully control the future core right away. That is why I see them persuing Jessiman so hard, and signing the likes of Taylor and Helminen. It is also why I expect the Rangers to attempt to sign both Baranka and Jonasen. If there is a lockout, we could be looking at Jessiman, Jonasen, Balej, Murray, Betts, Ortmeyer, Moore, Wiseman, Helminen, Tyutin, Pock, Lampman, Taylor, Liffiton, Baranka and Blackburn all playing together under McGill at Hartford.

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07-30-2004, 07:11 PM
  #15
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I agree with Taylor's decision. His skating won't get any better in college compared to the AHL. It depends on how hard he works at it and his natural ability. His game is toughness and clearing the crease. That he can greatly improve in the AHL over college. Big difference cross checking a big forward in front in the AHL who turns around and drops the gloves on you rather then getting a glove pushed in your full face cage.

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07-30-2004, 07:33 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackisback
I agree with Taylor's decision. His skating won't get any better in college compared to the AHL. It depends on how hard he works at it and his natural ability. His game is toughness and clearing the crease. That he can greatly improve in the AHL over college. Big difference cross checking a big forward in front in the AHL who turns around and drops the gloves on you rather then getting a glove pushed in your full face cage.
I agree with your points here. I would have liked to see Taylor spend one more year at Minnesota but if he will have a role with the 'Pack it will be beneficial.

I want to see Jonasen signed but would hope Baranka finishes his last season in Everett under Constantine. He will log TONS of icetime as a 19 year old in the WHL.

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07-31-2004, 09:24 AM
  #17
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I totally agree with the tougness part of the AHL. He will get clocked by some 30 year old guy looking to show up the kid. But as far as skating goes i do not know. Obviously AHL players are going to be better and on average faster. But Mariucci where the gophs play is olympic sized ice. He had to chase around, Bochenski's and Parise's on big ice. And try to keep with his own players too. I think his skating would have come around there. And from a toatally financial point. The NCAA is a step down from the AHL, although i do not beileve it is a big one, but he would have devolped for free. A poor team like Calagary let Leopold sit in the NCAA. When he should have come out after his junior year and maybe after his soph season. So what does he do plays huge minutes in his second season and was only sent down for 2-3 AHL games where he had 2-3 points and dominated and got called right back up in his first season. So it all depends on the player. There are an equal amount of college busts out there too. But it doesn't seem to be a league thing. Or when the player comes out.

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