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Old
07-30-2011, 01:43 PM
  #26
ThirdManIn
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Can they? Yes. They are an NHL team, and all NHL teams have a "chance" to win the Cup at the start of any given season.

is it realistic? Hell no. Cup winners since the lock out have been in the top 10 (or better ) offensively. We have the defense. We need the offense. I think we can take a hit on defense to plug that hole. As much as I don't want to see Weber or Suter go, we can take that hit as long as our offense is legitimately upgraded. We cannot, however, see them leave if all we get in return is another second/third liner who might put up 50+ points. It simply doesn't address the issue while simultaneously putting a large dent in our defense. We were the third best team defensively last year. We were 21st offensively. Our options are simple in theory. Improve the PP with what we have, and in return see our offense improve to top 15 (which is unlikely seeing as how we haven't done it yet), or roll the dice... attempt to trade Weber or Suter for a top-flight offensive guy. There is no guarantee that a legitimate top three guy upgrades our offense enough to make a difference. Too many variables. I think the question here is... is it worth the risk? I'd say that it is.

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07-30-2011, 01:57 PM
  #27
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Realistically, we need two top 3 talents. One guy will get targeted constantly by the opposing team. If we have two then we can play them together to form a dynamic duo or split them up so other teams have to pick and choose who to defend against. It also would allow more open ice for some other guys which should increase their production as well.

I'm hoping Radulov is back next season and that addresses one of these needs. I'm also wondering if we have that guy in Beck. If we do, we may be closer than we think. I think I'd pursue a trade of either Weber or Suter for a top 3 though. That's just me.

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07-31-2011, 05:44 PM
  #28
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I'd say true... sort of. I think the guys in the system are good enough, but they're not at the competitive level they need to be at yet.

As currently constituted, with folks at their present levels of development? Not unless the stars are properly aligned.


(Then again, I feel the same way about the Jackets, but it's defense instead of offense. )

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08-02-2011, 07:27 PM
  #29
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So I've seen tons of posts excusing David Poile for his inability to add to offense.

While most people give David Poile a pass suggesting that we don't need offense to win the Stanley Cup despite stats showing that no team has been outside the top ten in offense and won the Cup since the clutch and grab era, there seems to be some agreeing that the team needs offense.

We have three ways of improving offense:

1 - Drafting: Ideally the team drafts young offensive stars and uses them while cheap. David Poile's bread and butter. Year after year we are touted as having one of the best prospect pools. Yet each report always mentions the same thing: the team lacks a 1st line offensive weapon.

There are multiple reasons for this. David Poile almost always goes for the "safe" Predators player. Good character guys who are hard working and play a solid defensive game. Every team needs those guys to win the cup yet they are the cheapest to sign in the offseason.

Usually touted excuse: Draft position
The real concern here is of course draft position. How can the Predators draft first line talent where they draft because of how the team does? And that is valid. Yet there numerous cases of teams getting solid players while not in the top ten. Kopitar, Parise, Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler, etc. One has to read about the Red Wings (http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1024) to also show this; littered with top line guys yet they always finish better than us in the standings. But draft position is a concern still. As long as the Predators do well, we don't have a high draft pick. Okay.

So if the Predators aren't able to draft at a good position for scorers and usually go for hard working guys or defensemen, then surely there is another way.

2 - Free Agents:
If you can't draft em, sign em. July 1st rolls around and the team should be able to grab a scorer.

Excuse: We don't have the money and/or players are overpaid

The team is always going to be limited by payroll. This isn't Detroit or the Rangers. Usually July 1st hits and Poile expresses interest in signing a top 6 guy. Pretty soon after not signing a top 6, we see the usual "They were all overpaid". Of course they are overpaid, that is how free agency works. Guys are on the open market being bid on. And the most expensive guys are usually scorers, should they hit the market.

If you want a free agency, you have to overpay. Poile's successes in signing guys off the scrap heap (Kariya, Dumont) are there. But how often does that happen? And none outside of Kariya have been legitimate first line scoring threat talent.

3 - Trades:
The Predators can always trade for an offensive star.

We normally have the assets to swing such a deal. But we don't because of the price or that they make too much.


----

So unless you believe that the Predators can win a cup without having a good offense or that we can build from within (despite having no projected first line talent and borderline second line talent), then the Predators have to acquire players by one of the above. Yet the same excuses are thrown out:

1 - We can't draft them because our draft position stinks.
2 - We can't sign them because of our budget and they are overpaid.
3 - We can't trade for them because the asking price is too high.

So how do we do it? I'm okay with #2 or #3 if we are unable to do #1. You have to get offense somewhere


Last edited by Jarnberg: 08-02-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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Old
08-02-2011, 07:32 PM
  #30
I Will Son
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
So I've seen tons of posts excusing David Poile for his inability to add to offense.

While most people give David Poile a pass suggesting that we don't need offense to win the Stanley Cup despite stats showing that no team has been outside the top ten in offense and won the Cup since the clutch and grab era, there seems to be some agreeing that the team needs offense.

We have three ways of improving offense:

1 - Drafting: Ideally the team drafts young offensive stars and uses them while cheap. David Poile's bread and butter. Year after year we are touted as having one of the best prospect pools. Yet each report always mentions the same thing: the team lacks a 1st line offensive weapon.

There are multiple reasons for this. David Poile almost always goes for the "safe" Predators player. Good character guys who are hard working and play a solid defensive game. Every team needs those guys to win the cup yet they are the cheapest to sign in the offseason.

Usually touted excuse: Draft position
The real concern here is of course draft position. How can the Predators draft first line talent where they draft because of how the team does? And that is valid. Yet there numerous cases of teams getting solid players while not in the top ten. Kopitar, Parise, Perry, Getzlaf, Kesler, etc. One has to read about the Red Wings (http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1024) to also show this; littered with top line guys yet they always finish better than us in the standings. But draft position is a concern still. As long as the Predators do well, we don't have a high draft pick. Okay.

So if the Predators aren't able to draft at a good position for scorers and usually go for hard working guys or defensemen, then surely there is another way.

2 - Free Agents:
If you can't draft em, sign em. July 1st rolls around and the team should be able to grab a scorer.

Excuse: We don't have the money and/or players are overpaid

The team is always going to be limited by payroll. This isn't Detroit or the Rangers. Usually July 1st hits and Poile expresses interest in signing a top 6 guy. Pretty soon after not signing a top 6, we see the usual "They were all overpaid". Of course they are overpaid, that is how free agency works. Guys are on the open market being bid on. And the most expensive guys are usually scorers, should they hit the market.

If you want a free agency, you have to overpay. Poile's successes in signing guys off the scrap heap (Kariya, Dumont) are there. But how often does that happen? And none outside of Kariya have been legitimate talent.

3 - Trades:
The Predators can always trade for an offensive star.

We normally have the assets to swing such a deal. But we don't because of the price or that they make too much.


----

So unless you believe that the Predators can win a cup without having a good offense or that we can build from within (despite having no projected first line talent and borderline second line talent), then the Predators have to acquire players by one of the above. Yet the same excuses are thrown out:

1 - We can't draft them because our draft position stinks.
2 - We can't sign them because of our budget and they are overpaid.
3 - We can't trade for them because the asking price is too high.

So how do we do it? I'm okay with #2 or #3 if we are unable to do #1. You have to get offense somewhere
Great Great post.

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Old
08-02-2011, 07:58 PM
  #31
Machinehead
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Absolutely false. At some point the Preds have to bring in an offensive star.

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08-02-2011, 08:17 PM
  #32
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Absolutely false. At some point the Preds have to bring in an offensive star.
Yup, and we cant wait on Radulov. That would be a mistake

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08-02-2011, 09:14 PM
  #33
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False.

Get Radulov back over here. Trade for/sign/kidnap Parise or someone as awesome as him.

In my fantasy world, we could get Weber, Rinne and Suter all to long-term deals at the same time that Radulov comes back. Parise would be excited about this, the Devils wouldn't be able to extend him and we could sign him to a nice contract when he goes UFA...he is BFFs with Suter after all.

This all means that this coming season would be the most stressful one ever.

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Old
04-22-2012, 10:49 PM
  #34
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Interesting to reflect on. If you had our top point guy to be Radulov and top scoters to be Bourque and Klein, please stand up! Everyone so upset when Goc, Sullivan, and Ward were let go, NEVER doubt this orginization.

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04-22-2012, 10:53 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by randymc2641 View Post
Everyone so upset when Goc, Sullivan, and Ward were let go, NEVER doubt this orginization.
I don't remember anyone being that upset Goc, Sullivan, and Ward walked.

As for Klein being our top point getter, Patrick Cote once had a 2-goal game. Joel Ward was also one the NHL's leading playoff goal scorers. Sample size, sample size, sample size.

But I'm certainly glad Klein pulled that goal out of his ***!

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04-22-2012, 11:03 PM
  #36
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I don't remember anyone being that upset Goc, Sullivan, and Ward walked.

As for Klein being our top point getter, Patrick Cote once had a 2-goal game. Joel Ward was also one the NHL's leading playoff goal scorers. Sample size, sample size, sample size.

But I'm certainly glad Klein pulled that goal out of his ***!
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=380

Read post #32 above, we did, and it paid off.

The people that sit around me were. Ward has 0-0-0 +1 unless he tallied today. 6-12-18 and getting 3 mil a year. It just amazes me, people doubt our management when year after year they prove the, wrong. #1 pp in league, Radulov returns, take out Red Wings (without our #3 dman) and people were predicting us 12th. Remember that this summer. Same people that probably wish Hamhuis was still on our team (felt bad for him tonight) GO PREDS

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04-22-2012, 11:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by randymc2641 View Post
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=380

Read post #32 above, we did, and it paid off.

The people that sit around me were. Ward has 0-0-0 +1 unless he tallied today. 6-12-18 and getting 3 mil a year. It just amazes me, people doubt our management when year after year they prove the, wrong. #1 pp in league, Radulov returns, take out Red Wings (without our #3 dman) and people were predicting us 12th. Remember that this summer. Same people that probably wish Hamhuis was still on our team (felt bad for him tonight) GO PREDS
Not sure who you're arguing against. Apparently someone who wanted to keep Joel Ward 9 months ago.

We're in the 2nd rd. Guys who were average in the regular season had a very good 1st series. Our prodigal potential scorer returned, which was one the the big holes people saw in this team. Hopefully Gill comes back and plays well.

Play the games!

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Old
04-22-2012, 11:25 PM
  #38
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True. I think you win the Stanley Cup on defense, goaltending, and timely offense. That is the Preds MO

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04-22-2012, 11:53 PM
  #39
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Before the season I would have said false but now with the additions of AK and Rads and Hali,Bourque,Smith,Wilson all stepping up without a doubt yes right now they do when combined with good goaltending and good D.

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04-23-2012, 12:12 AM
  #40
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Well, since this thread was started, we've out and added a top 3 forward in Radulov, and another top sixer in Kostitsyn. Having seen what they can do, I'm willing to switch from false to true.

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04-23-2012, 09:43 AM
  #41
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Going forward, I'd be interested to hear what Preds fans feel their team needs offensively going into next season (regardless of playoff performance). Would going into next season with the same forwards you have now be good enough or do you feel you lack anything specifically?

For example, if you want offensive reinforcements during the off-season, will any forward position do or is it needed more at a specific position?

And what offensive skills do people feel are required? A sniper? Another bang and crash guy who lives at the top of the crease? Passing/playmaking? Speed and puck control?

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04-23-2012, 10:11 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Going forward, I'd be interested to hear what Preds fans feel their team needs offensively going into next season (regardless of playoff performance). Would going into next season with the same forwards you have now be good enough or do you feel you lack anything specifically?

For example, if you want offensive reinforcements during the off-season, will any forward position do or is it needed more at a specific position?

And what offensive skills do people feel are required? A sniper? Another bang and crash guy who lives at the top of the crease? Passing/playmaking? Speed and puck control?
I think it depends on who comes back. I will not be sad to see tootoo go. I like him, but we have better coming through. Yip I expect will get a cheap contract and so will McGratten, if he is willing to play about every 5th game again.We are in a good spot as far as our depth goes. the big question is can we afford 4 big money players in Radu, Weber, Suter and Rinne. And if Suter leaves, how much do you spend on that FA dman?

In looking at position, I think it is safe to say fisher-legwand-spaling are our top three centers next year, so that isn't really an issue. Have to sort out where Wilson, Smith, and a few other young guys go.

will be an interesting offseason, hopefully one not to think about for another 2 months

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04-23-2012, 10:41 AM
  #43
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True:
I think are offense is good enough. Over the year and in the first round of the playoffs the offense has put itself and had way to many chances that where not buried because of numerous skill reasons (bad pass, suprised the puck is coming to you, fanning on the shot, missing wide open nets) Think about how many good scoring chances the preds had in the Detroit series alone but could not close the door? The offense is there it is just the ability to finish the play we are lacking.

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05-07-2012, 10:35 PM
  #44
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Looks like false?

Over 7 periods of scoreless hockey from the Predators.

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05-07-2012, 11:09 PM
  #45
ThirdManIn
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Step 1) need a top line center

Step 2) make a list of top line centers

Step 3) ?????

Step 4) obtain top line center

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05-08-2012, 05:53 AM
  #46
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Our main sources of scoring seem to disappear come playoff time. THIS needs to be addressed.

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05-08-2012, 12:13 PM
  #47
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A big fat false. Top lines need a complete overhaul.
What to do. Sign a legit top line center and a legit top line sniper LW.
Insert your young talent Wilson, Borqi, Smith with those needs and your only legit top liner (Erat) and give them a freaking chance to blossum.

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05-08-2012, 12:16 PM
  #48
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Our main sources of scoring seem to disappear come playoff time. THIS needs to be addressed.
This is what happens when you have 3rd and 4th line players playing on the top two lines when teams actually play defense in the playoffs.

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05-08-2012, 10:00 PM
  #49
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False.

Get Radulov back over here. Trade for/sign/kidnap Parise or someone as awesome as him.

In my fantasy world, we could get Weber, Rinne and Suter all to long-term deals at the same time that Radulov comes back. Parise would be excited about this, the Devils wouldn't be able to extend him and we could sign him to a nice contract when he goes UFA...he is BFFs with Suter after all.

This all means that this coming season would be the most stressful one ever.
Yes, I'm quoting myself. Because we forgot to/couldn't do/haven't yet done the bolded part.

My answer is still: FALSE. Get a damn legit 1st line center.

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05-09-2012, 09:40 AM
  #50
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True, but they have to find that right balance in the system. We averaged three goals against Smith in games one and two, but allowed 4.5 per game. Then we go completely into a defensive shell for games three and four, getting only two goals off the forecheck. Game five was then scramble and throw pucks with little offensive structure. Throw in how many waive offs in there?

Not converting on a single home playoff PP was a wtf moment. Still, we have a higher conversion rate than the Kings this post season ... so not scoring on the PP isn't the only reason the boys are done for the season.

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