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*OFFICIAL* Kingston Frontenacs 2011-12 Season Thread

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Old
09-15-2011, 09:19 AM
  #26
sarie67
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Originally Posted by fanofdo View Post
Take it from someone that has followed the OHL for many years and observed. It all comes down to the owner. Period. At some point in time you can only get so unlucky. I currently follow Sarnia - in the last few years I have been vocal about the owners selling the team. To make a long story short, there were several people that attacked me, but were silenced when I published the following results from the 1999 season forward. Kingston fans will be interested;

I have compiled some stats from 1999/2000 season until this season.

The entire league - total points ...
London 1044
Plymouth 1013
Kitchener 1001
Windsor 953
Ottawa 934
Guelph 918
St Mikes / Missy Majors - 906
Belleville 886
Brampton 882
Barrie 878
Soo 842
Owen Sound - 826
Erie 823
Peterborough - 810
Saginaw / nb - 787
Sarnia 786
Kingston 776
Sudbury 761
Missy / Niagara 735
Oshawa 728

Entire league - Playoff games played...
Plymouth 147
London 136
Ottawa 133
Windsor 127
Barrie 127
St Mikes / Missy Majors 127
Belleville 112
Kitchener 111
Guelph 100
Sudbury 97
Brampton 94
Erie 81
Missy / Niagara 79
Peterborough 71
Soo 70
Owen Sound 65
Oshawa 64
Saginaw / nb 55
Sarnia 45
Kingston 38
Playoff Wins - Our Conference (still ongoing)...
Plymouth 82
London 81
Windsor 70
Kitchener 63
Guelph 44
Erie 42
Soo 31
Owen Sound 30
Saginaw / nb 17
Sarnia 12

Playoff Wins - Entire League
Plymouth 82
London 81
St Mikes / Missy Majors 72
Barrie 71
Ottawa 71
Windsor 70
Belleville 66
Kitchener 63
Sudbury 48
Guelph 44
Erie 42
Brampton 42
Peterborough 38
Missy / Niagara 36
Soo 31
Owen Sound 30
Oshawa 29
Saginaw / nb 17
Sarnia 12
Kingston 9
Yes, Kingston has sucked big time... even worse during the past 5 years. Even so, you would think, like all rebuilding teams, that at one point, they would turn the corner and, through high draft picks and deadline deals, that the Fronts would finally be on their way up. From what I can tell, they will be worse than awful this year. They have no depth. They have no stars. They are filling the roster with FA and questionable and small draft picks.

Did ownership dictate the bad recent trades? the bad signings? the bad recruiting? the bad draft picks?

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09-15-2011, 09:39 AM
  #27
phaedrusDH
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Did ownership dictate the bad recent trades? the bad signings? the bad recruiting? the bad draft picks?
Ownership dictates management and management dictated the roster.

Do you really think that the recent moves (i.e. since the last summer) were really that bad? I think Gilmour's actually building for something as opposed to the Hail Mary that Mavety tried to pull the year before. With Mavety out of the picture I have a lot more reason to be optimistic.

That being said, it's going to be a tough couple of years, and it's unfortunately going to hurt the Frontenacs pretty badly. When the Fronts hurt, the City (and especially it's loyalty to the downtown area) will hurt as attendance at the K-Rock Centre falls.

I wonder if Springer forced Mavety out due to political pressure to improve the Fronts...Or was it more of a play by Gilmour...?

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09-15-2011, 09:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by mikekomisarek08 View Post
Did ownership dictate the bad recent trades? the bad signings? the bad recruiting? the bad draft picks?
Ill say this.

Ownership does dictate a scouting budget and recruiting budget. I dont have any hard number, but when you look at teams like Brampton who seem to have a large amount of scouts, and look at Kingston, who seem to have a fraction of most teams, that probably speaks to an issue.

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09-15-2011, 01:24 PM
  #29
sarie67
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Originally Posted by phaedrusDH View Post
Ownership dictates management and management dictated the roster.

Do you really think that the recent moves (i.e. since the last summer) were really that bad? I think Gilmour's actually building for something as opposed to the Hail Mary that Mavety tried to pull the year before. With Mavety out of the picture I have a lot more reason to be optimistic.

That being said, it's going to be a tough couple of years, and it's unfortunately going to hurt the Frontenacs pretty badly. When the Fronts hurt, the City (and especially it's loyalty to the downtown area) will hurt as attendance at the K-Rock Centre falls.

I wonder if Springer forced Mavety out due to political pressure to improve the Fronts...Or was it more of a play by Gilmour...?
You would just think that a bad team would eventually get better through rebuilding, decent deadline deals and the draft. This year's team will be the worse in five years and the prospects they are bringing in don't inspire much hope. Incompetence? Ownership? Budgeting? Probably all of the above and much more.

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09-15-2011, 01:26 PM
  #30
fanofdo
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Originally Posted by mikekomisarek08 View Post
Even so, you would think, like all rebuilding teams, that at one point, they would turn the corner and, through high draft picks and deadline deals, that the Fronts would finally be on their way up.
You would think, but it doesn't seem to work that way. Somehow good teams seem to turn "rebuilding years" into other team's good years. It isn't just at this level - it happens in almost every pro sport league also.

Should you need additional evidence, look how some long suffering organizations all of a sudden got success when there was an ownership change, again in all levels of sports.

Perhaps Gilmore can turn it around and it has happened but the odds are against it.

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09-15-2011, 02:43 PM
  #31
sarie67
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Originally Posted by fanofdo View Post
You would think, but it doesn't seem to work that way. Somehow good teams seem to turn "rebuilding years" into other team's good years. It isn't just at this level - it happens in almost every pro sport league also.

Should you need additional evidence, look how some long suffering organizations all of a sudden got success when there was an ownership change, again in all levels of sports.

Perhaps Gilmore can turn it around and it has happened but the odds are against it.
Yep, London rebuilt for all of... one year!

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09-15-2011, 03:13 PM
  #32
fanofdo
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Yep, London rebuilt for all of... one year!
I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but their record is very good since the Hunters bought the team - at or near the top on all categories.

You aren't going to win every year - if you are criticizing their success I would suggest you look a bit closer.

Regardless, Sarnia like Kingston, up to this point has been a disaster and the numbers show it. Period. I don't think there are many fans in either city that wouldn't gladly trade their owners for London's.

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09-15-2011, 04:32 PM
  #33
sarie67
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Originally Posted by fanofdo View Post
I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but their record is very good since the Hunters bought the team - at or near the top on all categories.

You aren't going to win every year - if you are criticizing their success I would suggest you look a bit closer.

Regardless, Sarnia like Kingston, up to this point has been a disaster and the numbers show it. Period. I don't think there are many fans in either city that wouldn't gladly trade their owners for London's.
Sarcastic? Well, yes and no. Their "rebuilding" has, in fact, lasted only one year (last year) meaning that they were great before for many years and are already on their way back to top after one off year. In no way was I even coming close to being critical of the Hunters. I don't know how you could read that in my message.

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09-15-2011, 05:00 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mikekomisarek08 View Post
Sarcastic? Well, yes and no. Their "rebuilding" has, in fact, lasted only one year (last year) meaning that they were great before for many years and are already on their way back to top after one off year. In no way was I even coming close to being critical of the Hunters. I don't know how you could read that in my message.
My appologies, I did mis-read it.

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09-16-2011, 12:28 PM
  #35
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Terrible ownership will always be a detriment to any sort of on-ice success. Springer has a great case for the title of worst owner in major junior hockey, if not all levels of junior hockey in Canada. He's cheap, he's arrogant, and he refuses to do what's best for the on-ice product. I don't care how many times the team drafts high, it'll never be able to overcome the disadvantage of having Springer as owner.

I'm still not sold that the club is "turning around" with the new management structure. Gilmour taking over as GM might look fine on paper, but he's still got to prove he's better than Mav. Not to mention, Mav's still around as an "adviser". That scares me because it seems to me Mav's still acting as co-GM, but just not officially for the public to criticize.

The only good news was the hiring of Todd Gill. I think he'll be a solid coach who demands hard work from his players. But the jury is still out on Gilmour as a GM, Keily is a terrible assistant coach, Mav is still in the picture even if it's in the background, and Springer is still holding his wallet tight to his chest.

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09-16-2011, 03:03 PM
  #36
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Gilmour pushed to have Mav ousted. The players really like Gill but like has been mentioned it will be a very tough 1-2 years. If they can be smart with next years draft and add a few pieces along the way the future will be brighter. They are going with kids this year and that is the way you rebuild.

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09-16-2011, 10:41 PM
  #37
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Gilmour pushed to have Mav ousted. The players really like Gill but like has been mentioned it will be a very tough 1-2 years. If they can be smart with next years draft and add a few pieces along the way the future will be brighter. They are going with kids this year and that is the way you rebuild.
Is this fact, or just random internet speculation?

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09-17-2011, 07:38 AM
  #38
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Apparently Moffat will be heading to Kingston to join the team... after his thought process.

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09-17-2011, 09:43 AM
  #39
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Glad to Moffatt decided to go, although I got no problem with a kid taking time and weighing his options. He should get more minutes, and responsibility then he would have in London. With some good coaching and mentorship (I know very little of the Fronts coach staff) he could develope nicely for them and be a special teams help.

Good luck Micheal

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09-17-2011, 05:26 PM
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zaluty
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Is this fact, or just random internet speculation?
Fact

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09-17-2011, 05:28 PM
  #41
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It is a fact, he even stopped a trade Mav was going to make which involved some more draft picks going to another team.

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09-17-2011, 07:20 PM
  #42
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Fact
What I meant was, has this actually been acknowledged by the club in any official capacity. I've been on the internet too long to fully trust "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows Gilmour's daughter" type information.

So I was wondering if you actually have a link from either a quote from someone close to the team, or something like that, or whether you're basing this on what you'd heard from someone close to the club.

As far as I know, I haven't seen a single quote/comment/statement by Gilmour, Springer, or Mavety to the effect that Gilmour was a driving force behind Mavety stepping down.

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09-22-2011, 07:38 PM
  #43
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sorry im out of the loop a bit...
where is alex gudbranson tonight?

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09-22-2011, 10:44 PM
  #44
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sorry im out of the loop a bit...
where is alex gudbranson tonight?
Injured. I believe he's got a shoulder injury.

As for the game, Kingston looks like it's going to challenge for next year's 1st overall pick.

Offensively they don't look like they have much talent, defensively they run around a lot and don't cover their men, and their goalie looked very bad positionally. The only thing they have going for them is they appear to be a hard working squad.

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09-25-2011, 12:08 AM
  #45
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More of the same in game two of the season for Kingston. Their offense was inept, their defense still struggles to pick up their man, and goaltending, while not as shaky as in Barrie, still not exactly strong.

The effort is there, which is all you can ask from such a young and lacking in talent roster. But the results won't be there too often this season.

I think it's only a matter of time until the Ryan Spooner bidding war heats up.

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09-25-2011, 04:55 PM
  #46
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Third game for Kingston this weekend, and the third game in which they were clearly outmatched. Ottawa cruises to a 6-2 win, getting off to a 5-0 first period lead, then coasting the final two periods.

Again, the same culprits were the Frontenacs' undoing. A punchless offense, a disorganized defense, and average goaltending contributed to Kingston starting the season 0-3, giving up 18 goals in those three losses, while scoring only 7. Rookie defenseman Warren Steele scored one of those goals, and now leads the team with 2 goals on the season.

The return of Ryan Spooner wasn't enough to inject some life into a lackluster and uncreative Kingston offense. He made a couple of nice plays, but his linemates failed to capitalize on them. He also was guilty of trying to play too fancy, which directly resulted in one of Ottawa's goals, the one that put the game away for good at 6-2 after Kingston went on a bit of a surge to make it 5-2.

Still missing from Kingston's line up is second year defenseman Alex Gudbranson.

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09-30-2011, 11:58 AM
  #47
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Kingston finally gets their first win of the season against an offensively challenged -- and in this game, poor defensive -- Brampton squad. Full marks to Kingston for the effort, however Brampton looked like they came into the game fully expecting a win, and didn't think they had to work to achieve it.

Spooner seemed to find his legs in this one. He didn't look very good against Ottawa, his first game after being sent back to junior by the Bruins. Last night he looked more like the player capable of dominating any given game in the OHL.

Nathan Cull broke out with a 2-goal effort. That may be a sign of things to come. Cull has to be one of the players who steps forward to replace the graduated offense.

I'm not a fan of Tessier or Moffat on defense. Tessier just makes so many brain farts, constantly making bad passes and not taking his man, and Moffat seems constantly out of position. At least Moffat adds offense to the table, though.

I am a fan of Hutchinson and Steele, though. Hutchinson plays a physical game, and Steele looks so calm and collected out there. They could make a pretty good tandem down the road.

Gill's a breath of fresh air on the bench compared to Gilmour. You can see Gill talking to the kids, pointing out mistakes and what they should do better, and giving them encouraging pats on the back or shoulder. Gilmour used to just stand there with his arms crossed, looking miffed if any of his players dared do something wrong.

Next up, Peterborough. I'm looking forward to seeing Matt Puempel play.

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09-30-2011, 12:12 PM
  #48
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I saw Doug Gilmour last nite at the WFCU centre taking in the Spits vs Saginaw

contest

Must have been on a scouting mission I do know there is a tournament in Mich

I know it was him because we exchanged greetings,as wehave spoken to each other in the past

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10-03-2011, 02:19 PM
  #49
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Gill's a breath of fresh air on the bench compared to Gilmour. You can see Gill talking to the kids, pointing out mistakes and what they should do better, and giving them encouraging pats on the back or shoulder. Gilmour used to just stand there with his arms crossed, looking miffed if any of his players dared do something wrong.

Next up, Peterborough. I'm looking forward to seeing Matt Puempel play.[/QUOTE]

I would have to agree 100% with your observation of Gill behind the bench. It struck me watching just 2 games at how poised he is and how much respect he gets from the players. He's going to get far but it will take a few years but I think Kingston is on the right track now from a stability and leadership perspective.

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10-03-2011, 08:01 PM
  #50
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Gill also seems to be getting the players to adapt to his systems quicker.

The first three games, Kingston looked horrible defensively. The players, especially the defensemen, seemed constantly out of position and constantly forgot to take their men.

This past weekend, it's like night and day. Already Gill's got the team playing much tighter defensively, and isn't giving up even close to as many scoring chances. They're more organized, better positioned, and their breakouts from their own zone are crisp.

Kingston may lack talent and may lose its share of games this year, but it's not going to be an easy team to play against. I think a lot of that credit goes to the man behind the bench.

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