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Old
07-07-2011, 02:21 PM
  #51
eXile59
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Well if Kunitz is a third liner what does it make all these guys he had more points than??

Cammalleri, Penner, A.Kostitsyn, Gange, Smyth, Gionta, Versteeg....

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Old
07-07-2011, 02:28 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Well if Kunitz is a third liner what does it make all these guys he had more points than??

Cammalleri, Penner, A.Kostitsyn, Gange, Smyth, Gionta, Versteeg....
in only 66 games too IIRC

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Old
07-07-2011, 02:50 PM
  #53
TaketheCannoli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Well if Kunitz is a third liner what does it make all these guys he had more points than??

Cammalleri, Penner, A.Kostitsyn, Gange, Smyth, Gionta, Versteeg....
Hey, let's argue about how great Kunitz is compared to players not named Umberger or play for the Blue Jackets! Maybe you'd like to send him to Montreal, LA, Edmonton, or Florida for one of those guys.

Hey, I have an idea- how about Kunitz plus Asham and the Pens 1st in 2012 to Edmonton for Hemsky?

Seriously, I wish Columbus had signed Asham a year ago as a FA.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:13 PM
  #54
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lateral move, at least from a Pens pov. Kunitz is the exact type of player the Pens need. all he needs to do is staying healthy.

I love how people in here are talking about RJ like he's Ovechkin.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:14 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Health, youth, and size. Umberger has 2"/30lb on Kunitz, and is two years younger. I don't think it's as small an edge as folks are suggesting.

That said, yeah, calling Kunitz a third-liner is, frankly, insane.
I'd say Kunitz plays a bigger game than Umberger though.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:15 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan47 View Post
Not sure what sport you're watching, Umberger can get you 25 to 30 goals playing 3 positions. Kunitz IS NOT a 2nd line player, 3rd liner at best
And yet Kunitz played on the 1st line for two different Stanley Cup champions (Ducks and Pens).

Apparently Anaheim and Pittsburgh don't have your amazing talent evaluation skills, since they clearly miscast him as something he's not.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:18 PM
  #57
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Kunitz and Umberger are close enough that I wouldn't deal one for the other, as a Pittsburgh fan. Umberger's bigger, younger, and healthier, but Kunitz has more playoff experience and plays a more punishing physical game which is crucial for Bylsma's wars of attrition. Both are good defensively and produce at about the same pace.

As for anybody who wants to suggest that Kunitz was leeching off of Sid last year, you might be interested to know that he scored 20 points in 27 reg. season games without Crosby, which extrapolates to 61 over a full season.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:30 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgs4853 View Post
Kunitz plays on the 1st line with Sidney Crosby and he's been there since he was traded to Pittsburgh. I wouldn't mind adding.



No comment, if you're going to be a little smart ass than I can't stop you.



Okay, what needs to be added?

mid level prospect?
mid round draft pick?

EDIT: I'll add Matt Niskanen, and a 2012 4th round pick. If more needs to be added to Chris Kunitz, Matt Niskanen and a 2012 4th round pick than I don't know what you people expect, I don't think Umberger is worth that much more.
If you're going to propose a trade that only makes your team better with no thought what-so-ever to the other team, their needs, or even player value then you are going to get responses like this. I guess if your going to make piss poor proposals than I can't stop you.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:32 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan47 View Post
I'd laugh Pittsburgh off of the phone! A 1st line guy in Umberger for a 3rd line guy in Kunitz? Umberger is a versatile player as well, better include a pick or another player for me if i'm Columbus.
RJ Umberger
2005–06 Philadelphia Flyers 73 20 18 38
2006–07 Philadelphia Flyers 81 16 12 28
2007–08 Philadelphia Flyers 74 13 37 50
2008–09 Columbus Blue Jackets 82 26 20 46
2009–10 Columbus Blue Jackets 82 23 32 55
2010–11 Columbus Blue Jackets 82 25 32 57

Chris Kunitz
2005–06 Mighty Ducks of Anaheim 67 19 22 41
2006–07 Anaheim Ducks 81 25 35 60
2007–08 Anaheim Ducks 82 21 29 50
2008–09 Anaheim/Pittsburgh 82 23 30 53
2009–10 Pittsburgh Penguins 50 13 19 32
2010–11 Pittsburgh Penguins 66 23 25 48

Except there is little to no substance separating Umberger from Kunitz, at least in terms of production. Umberger might be more versatile, but both are top six caliber players in relativity to your statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick87your71Poison View Post
In just 66 games too IIRC

whoops sorry for the double post: wasn't showing up
He played in 66 games last season, 50 the season before. He was almost iron man in Anaheim.

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Old
07-07-2011, 03:47 PM
  #60
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I don't think the value's far off, but it seems pretty lateral.

I'd love to have Kunitz, but Umberger has value in Columbus far beyond what he does on the ice. Trading him for anything less than a ridiculous return would likely bring torches and pitchforks to the arena.
That's no knock on Kunitz, either. He's underrated by most around here.

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Old
07-07-2011, 04:11 PM
  #61
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this just in ...

from all of Columbus ... ( ahem )

HELL NO ...

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Old
07-07-2011, 04:16 PM
  #62
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Simply because the "value" is equal doesn't mean there is a reason to make the trade.

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Old
07-07-2011, 04:36 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
Simply because the "value" is equal doesn't mean there is a reason to make the trade.
Exactly. This is a "kiss your sister" proposal if I've ever seen one.

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Old
07-07-2011, 04:41 PM
  #64
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Yeah, the OP isn't fair. It'd have to be Kunitz +...

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Old
07-07-2011, 04:51 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
The boy from Moon Twp comes home.
For the record, Umberger's from Plum Borough, not Moon Twp.

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Old
07-07-2011, 04:59 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan47 View Post
I'd laugh Pittsburgh off of the phone! A 1st line guy in Umberger for a 3rd line guy in Kunitz? Umberger is a versatile player as well, better include a pick or another player for me if i'm Columbus.
At what point in his career with the Penguins has he ever been a 3rd liner? Oh right, a Flyer fan hating on a Pens player, durr...could you be more obvious?

Kunitz has had some groin issues that he hasn't really dealt with properly (elected to rehab instead of surgery). But he's a 50+ pt player, Penguins can just wait until the summer to sign him if he lasts until then.

If not, no big deal, someone else will become available via trade or July 1st, 2012.

RJ Umberger's Career Totals: 474gms - 274pts (123 goals)
Chris Kunitz's Career Totals: 451gms - 290pts (124 goals)

How's that for pretty close.

Kunitz is primarily a left winger while Umberger is more versatile being able to play C and wing. Kunitz is more physical though and 2yrs older, but Kunitz also comes with a pedigree of being a 2x Stanley Cup Champion. Depends on how much that experience goes with someone and what kind of package is offered. Personally, I think Umberger is worth more, but to call him a 3rd line left winger is pathetic, childish even.

Both are impending UFA's after this up coming season.

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:05 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Yeah, the OP isn't fair. It'd have to be Kunitz +...
I wonder what that + would be, I agree, it would have to be Kunitz +. Maybe just before the deadline if Umberger can't come to an agreement and tells the management that he plans to testing the market, Pens can then try to deal for him with the hometown ties and try to work something out after getting him.

How about...

To CBJ: Kunitz + Sneep
To PGH: Umberger + 3rd rounder in 2012 (if he re-signs, turns to 4th rounder)

And for a limited time only, CPZ + his wife, thrown in for a low fee of his wife and his plane tickets.

Apparently the Pens still own his rights.

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:15 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by 36kap36 View Post
Howson is already working on a long-term extension with RJ, chances are it will be signed by the start of the season.
Is there a link that isn't based around "rumors" and has a quote from the GM himself saying that he is trying to re-sign Umberger to an extension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Health, youth, and size. Umberger has 2"/30lb on Kunitz, and is two years younger. I don't think it's as small an edge as folks are suggesting.

That said, yeah, calling Kunitz a third-liner is, frankly, insane.
Kunitz - 66gms 155 hits (193 hits in 82 games)
Umberger - 82gms 115 hits

What is the point of having that size, if you don't use it to your advantage, Kunitz may be 2 inches shorter, but he's more physical than Umberger by a fair margin.

That and Kunitz has put up more points in about 20 or so less games (career) and both have scored about 120+ goals in their careers. It's closer than you think. One is more physical than the other, the other being the taller one that isn't as physical and the age gap is 3yrs.

Three years. Apparently, that's a lot. The age gap between Ovechkin and Crosby is 2yrs, yet people treat them like they are the same age, that's neither here nor there.

So why would the Pens want Umberger? versatility in the line-up, the ability for him to put up the same kind of numbers as Kunitz but being able to play either W and C.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
Send Letang keep Kunitz
To pry Letang out of Pittsburgh, you would have to consider Nash and since neither team would ever do that, it's a moot point.

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:26 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Ask Toronto how that worked out with Rick Nash.
Didn't Nash sign that extension after making the playoffs for the 1st time? If he knew what he knew today, then, I wonder if he still re-signs that contract.

The franchise has given up on 4 first rounders (top 10 picks) already in the past 4 years - Zherdev, Brule, Filatov and Voracek.

Sure, Nash seems loyal, but if you play the sport you love and grow up wanting to hoist the Stanley Cup, you take a look at what the team has done since 2008-09 and wonder, "did I make the right choice?"

So ask yourself, how that worked out for Nash. He sure will be rich, if anything.

While TML fans are annoying with the "bring him home!" crap, that team is closer to a playoff birth than the Jackets are in terms of a quality roster. If Nash was a UFA this summer, he's signing elsewhere, maybe the Leafs, maybe someone else entirely.

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:38 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyTheBrave View Post
I wonder what that + would be, I agree, it would have to be Kunitz +. Maybe just before the deadline if Umberger can't come to an agreement and tells the management that he plans to testing the market, Pens can then try to deal for him with the hometown ties and try to work something out after getting him.

How about...

To CBJ: Kunitz + Sneep
To PGH: Umberger + 3rd rounder in 2012 (if he re-signs, turns to 4th rounder)

And for a limited time only, CPZ + his wife, thrown in for a low fee of his wife and his plane tickets.

Apparently the Pens still own his rights.
From a fan of both teams, no. The Pens have no reason to trade Kunitz and the Jackets absolutely do not want to trade Umberger. Sneep is far from what would be needed to pry him out of Columbus, and I'd rather not mess with Kunitz and Crosby's chemistry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnlyTheBrave View Post
To pry Letang out of Pittsburgh, you would have to consider Nash and since neither team would ever do that, it's a moot point.
It's a moot point making trade proposals for RJ Umberger because nobody would pay what would be necessary.

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:39 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by OnlyTheBrave View Post
While TML fans are annoying with the "bring him home!" crap, that team is closer to a playoff birth than the Jackets are in terms of a quality roster. If Nash was a UFA this summer, he's signing elsewhere, maybe the Leafs, maybe someone else entirely.
This post is so off base that it's entertaining.

You should keep your uneducated conjecture to yourself.


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Old
07-07-2011, 05:40 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by OnlyTheBrave View Post
Didn't Nash sign that extension after making the playoffs for the 1st time? If he knew what he knew today, then, I wonder if he still re-signs that contract.

The franchise has given up on 4 first rounders (top 10 picks) already in the past 4 years - Zherdev, Brule, Filatov and Voracek.

Sure, Nash seems loyal, but if you play the sport you love and grow up wanting to hoist the Stanley Cup, you take a look at what the team has done since 2008-09 and wonder, "did I make the right choice?"

So ask yourself, how that worked out for Nash. He sure will be rich, if anything.

While TML fans are annoying with the "bring him home!" crap, that team is closer to a playoff birth than the Jackets are in terms of a quality roster. If Nash was a UFA this summer, he's signing elsewhere, maybe the Leafs, maybe someone else entirely.

You have a link for that? Anything saying that Nash given any indication to that effect, or just making it up as you go?

Yes Four 1st rounders have moved on but 2 of those belong to the previous admin , Filatov was a whiff no argument there but Voracek was part of the deal that brought Richards to the CBJ so I would hardly count that as giving up.

Nash was very involved in the Richards situation as well as encouraging Wiz to come to Columbus as was Umberger.

Your assertion the Toronto roster is closer to a playoff berth after this summers activity is a matter of speculation and not fact.

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:46 PM
  #73
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
You have a link for that? Anything saying that Nash given any indication to that effect, or just making it up as you go?

Yes Four 1st rounders have moved on but 2 of those belong to the previous admin , Filatov was a whiff no argument there but Voracek was part of the deal that brought Richards to the CBJ so I would hardly count that as giving up.

Nash was very involved in the Richards situation as well as encouraging Wiz to come to Columbus as was Umberger.

Your assertion the Toronto roster is closer to a playoff berth after this summers activity is a matter of speculation and not fact.
Don't you mean Carter?

Would help if you actually know who you're talking about.

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:48 PM
  #74
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Weird thread.

Kunitz is 3rd liner and Umberger is the most untouchable player in NHL

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Old
07-07-2011, 05:48 PM
  #75
Crede777
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Don't you mean Carter?

Would help if you actually know who you're talking about.
Yes he means Carter, but he's right about the other things.

A player who is disillusioned with his team wouldn't be putting forward this much effort and spending this much lap time with the GM. Nash is practically Howson's right hand man.

Also I'd love to hear how Toronto of all teams is closer to the playoffs than the CBJ. I mean, really? Seriously?


Last edited by Crede777: 07-07-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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