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MLD 2011 Draft Thread I

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Old
07-13-2011, 03:11 PM
  #276
BenchBrawl
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Both good picks.

seventies' previous bio of Richardson really highlighted his offensive talent.

I don't think vecens and I ever came to a consensus on who we wanted as a top center if McGimsie was selected, but Spezza was my personal second choice. He doesn't bring anything but offense and is probably a negative without the puck, but he brings quite a bit of offense for this level.
While I do agree that his only real positives are offensive hockey and proven playoff performances with a ppg of 1 , I think the underrated part with Spezza these last few years is his really acceptable defensive play.While some players are praised from changing their style from exclusively offensive to a little bit more 2-way , Spezza doesn't seems to have this privilege even if he made significant effort in this matter.I think his defensive game is good enough not to be considered a negative for a 1 line center.

- a north-east division fan


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 07-13-2011 at 03:19 PM.
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07-13-2011, 03:27 PM
  #277
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I love having to dig up info...therefore...

The Belleville Bulls select C/D - Skene Ronan

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Old
07-13-2011, 04:03 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Yeah, as you probably know now, my beef didn't have anything to do with injuries.
Don't forget 70's, that I am a Habs fan and therefore have a huge bias against any modern Bruins player.

I know compared to Staal, he is a good pick. However, I still think there was better..I should have worded my reasoning better cause I do realize finding players who had longevity and a time of being elite isn't that easy to find at this level.

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07-13-2011, 04:25 PM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Since you are not familiar with what I was talking about, here it is:

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2...9&postcount=79

There's more than enough circumstantial evidence there to suggest he can score at a very high level for an MLD 1st line winger.
I'm quite familiar with Richardson. The comparison with Davidson doesn't consider that Davidson was 17 years old when they were teammates, while Richardson was 23.

The comparisons for his years at Queen's neglect to mention he was also outscored by several players who would never, ever be drafted here in 1905, and nearly matched by similar teammates some years as well. Billy Gilmour has no business being in the Hall, so he's not a very strong comparison either.

Being a Stanley Cup finalist in this era isn't really meaningful, since that just meant you were champion of your league and issued a challenge. Sometimes, you didn't even need to be a champion, like the Klondikers.

Richardson certainly has better credentials than, say, Hobey Baker, who I was dismayed to see got drafted in the ATD. These players get a lot of attention due to their inclusion in the Hall, but their careers don't really support it.

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Old
07-13-2011, 05:01 PM
  #280
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
I'm quite familiar with Richardson. The comparison with Davidson doesn't consider that Davidson was 17 years old when they were teammates, while Richardson was 23.
It works both ways, bro. The Queen's years you mention below, involve a 16-19-year old Richardson and an 18-21-year old Walsh. Walsh is a legit, proven, scoring star and I didn't make any mention of their ages there.

Quote:
The comparisons for his years at Queen's neglect to mention he was also outscored by several players who would never, ever be drafted here in 1905, and nearly matched by similar teammates some years as well.
Looking at it again, I'm doing Richardson a disservice by including his years as a 16 and 17-year old. he had 4 goals in 5 games at 16, and was outscored by 4 players. Two has no other recorded CIHU games, one played one more year and had a career total of 10 in 8 (and was 23-24 as a CIHU player), and one played two other years with unknown stats.

As a 17-year old he was outscored by 19-year old Walsh (big surprise!) and one other player whose career CIHU line is 9 goals in 8 games (and was 25-26 in the CIHU)

As an 18-year old he outscored his teammate Walsh (a guy whose greatness we have a pretty good idea of) , and was outscored by a guy who finished with 17 goals in 8 CIHU games played at 29-30, a guy who scored 10 in 7 but played Saskatchewan senior hockey for over a decade later, and an interesting player who scored 36 goals in 17 CIHU games while 18-21. Richardson outscored him significantly the next season.

Basically, like any good player, Richardson was outscored by lesser players from time to time but he was always in the mix. And we're talking about a teenager here, sometimes playing against men.

Quote:
Billy Gilmour has no business being in the Hall, so he's not a very strong comparison either.
I agree he has no business being in the hall, but he scored 1.2 goals per game in the CIHU and was 18-21 at the time. So that statement would be meaningful if they were comparable quality players in the CIHU, but they weren't.

And of course, the HHOF has about 230 members and we're down to pick 1050 already. Clearly none of us really thinks any of these guys are true HHOFers based on their careers.

I maintain that if he's a certain percentage ahead of Gilmour offensively and a certain percentage behind Walsh (advantageous ages considered as well), as well as a decent point of comparison with a guy who went on to place 4th in NHA scoring (not to mention, also briefly a guy who later tore apart the OPHL) then we have enough evidence to make a somewhat educated guess about his all-time offensive potential. If the evidence was even stronger, then we could be even surer and he'd be picked a lot higher, probably, because Walsh is very potent offensively.

Quote:
Being a Stanley Cup finalist in this era isn't really meaningful, since that just meant you were champion of your league and issued a challenge. Sometimes, you didn't even need to be a champion, like the Klondikers.
Note that I include all instances of being a champion or finalist for all players regardless of context, for biographical purposes.

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Old
07-13-2011, 05:43 PM
  #281
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D Alex Smith



5x Top 10 Goals Among Defensemen(4, 4, 6, 8, 10)
7x Top 12 Assists Among Defensemen(1, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 12)
7x Top 14 Points Among Defensemen(6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 11, 14)
1x Stanley Cup Champion
3x Top 9 PIM(4, 8, 9)
Point finishes on team among defensemen(27-28 to 34-35): 2*, 2*, 3**, 1, 1***, 2****, 2****, 2*****

*Behind King Clancy, ahead of Georges Boucher
*Behind King Clancy, and undrafted
***Among those strictly listed as D
****Behind Eddie Shore
*****Behind undrafted



During Peak(27-28 to 34-35)

7th in goals among defensemen
7th in assists among defensemen
5th in points among defensemen

Vs2 Finishes

Goals: 90, 86, 60, 42, 36
Assists: 100, 80, 57, 46, 43, 42, 32
Points: 81, 74, 54, 44, 43, 40, 39

Quote:
Known as one of Ottawa's finest athletes, Alex Smith played most sports in his collegiate days but took on a hockey career that saw him become a member of the Ottawa Senators in 1924. He was an outstanding defenceman who helped that team claim the Stanley Cup in the 1926-27 season.

After being claimed by the Detroit Falcons in the 1931 Dispersal Draft, Smith was back in Ottawa one season later. He was traded to the Boston Bruins in 1933 and later wore the New York Americans sweater for his last year in the NHL, 1934-35.
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=14349

Quote:
He passed to Perk Galbraith as Alex Smith swept down from his defense post and fought his way through to the Ottawa net. The Senators defensemen allowed him to remain there while Galbraith passed back to xxx belted the puck down the middle, and Smith cooly slammed the rebound home to deadlock the game.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
The newest players: Hec Kilrea, one of hockey's fastest wingmen; Alec Connell, veteran goalie; and Alex Smith, star defenseman, bolstered Falcons' weak spots.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
They were joined by Ward who tripped Alex Smith. A moment later, Smith threw Hooley Smith over his hip and also joined the boys with the timers.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
At the end of the 2nd period, xxx, a reserve forward for the Canadiens, took exception to Alex Smith checking him after the bell sounded.

Alex Smith obtained possession of the puck and went down the left boards to circle around the Canadien defensemen and landed the puck in the upper corner of the net.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
One player who is coming along splendidly and who is acquiring finish and smoothness under constant work is Alex Smith. One hockey follower pointed out yesterday that Smith is a real scoring threat and instanced the fine change of pace he has acquired in coming in on as a defense.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
Senators were without the services of George Boucher, who had a sore back, and Alex Smith replaced him in stellar style. Boucher's generalship was a bit lacking, but Smith more than made up for it in the vigor of his rushing.

Alex Smith was conspicuous with some fast rushes that threatened danger.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
The Senator roster was nearly completed with the signing of rugged Alex Smith, defense player.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
"Captain" King Clancy played a hard game, and had an able running mate in Alex Smith. "Boots" laid seven shots on the Ranger cage.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
Clancy, Boucher, and Smith carried the defense burden for the locals while at the other end.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
Alex Smith, the raw boned young defenseman who filled the breach when Clancy was out through injuries has stamped himself all over a valuable guard. Smith as not only been forming a perfect defense alongside George Boucher, but he has been sniping goals to keep the Senators in the running or give them victories. He has put to rout even the home town critics who thought he would not measure up to the first string guard.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
It was decided last night by General Manager Gill that Alex Smith will replace George Boucher on the Ottawa defense. The latter is not in his very best form owing an injury to one of his knees received at Pittsburgh some time since and the Ottawa pilot is desirous of having Boucher in top form for the playoffs and not take any chances on further injury in the meantime.

Alex Smith has demonstrated on repeated occasions that he can hold his own in select hockey society and the rougher the games the better he likes them. He has plenty of poundage, is a fast skater, and a good puck carrier as well as being able to shoot the puck at terrific speed.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
A sturdy, reliable defenseman in Alex Smith...
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en

Quote:
The first period was 3 parts over when Alex Smith obtained possession of the puck and sailed through center. He rounded xxx to get close in for a drive on the Chicago net and the puck nestled in an upper corner. Two minutes later Smith repeated the play with another shot that completely eluded "Chuck" Gardiner, the Chicago net guardian.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...senators&hl=en


Last edited by BillyShoe1721: 07-16-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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Old
07-13-2011, 06:25 PM
  #282
seventieslord
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Smith's no more an offensive defenseman than Jim Morrison (actually he definitely isn't as good offensively)

I hope you can tell us something about him. When I had him in AAA10 it was tough to find anything on him. His LOH profile calls him "outstanding", that's about it.

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Old
07-13-2011, 06:31 PM
  #283
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To be fair seventies, he didn't really try to pawn Smith off as good as Morrison offensively.

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Old
07-13-2011, 06:33 PM
  #284
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
To be fair seventies, he didn't really try to pawn Smith off as good as Morrison offensively.
yeah, I know... he was calling him "productive"... we discussed another "productive" defenseman the other day though, ane he's not as productive as that guy.

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Old
07-13-2011, 06:52 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
While I do agree that his only real positives are offensive hockey and proven playoff performances with a ppg of 1 , I think the underrated part with Spezza these last few years is his really acceptable defensive play.While some players are praised from changing their style from exclusively offensive to a little bit more 2-way , Spezza doesn't seems to have this privilege even if he made significant effort in this matter.I think his defensive game is good enough not to be considered a negative for a 1 line center.

- a north-east division fan
I think Spezza is misunderstood by a lot of fans and media. He does have major strengths and major weaknesses. But it's not that he's all offence and no defence. It's that his skating quickness and agility is very poor, and that hurts him offensively as much as defensively.

If you look at his strengths he could be a poor man's Mario Lemieux. A big RHS centre who uses his reach very effectively, has tremendous puck skills, very good vision and passing ability, and a hard and accurate shot. Lesser strengths include his faceoff ability (he's taken important faceoffs since 06-07). His straight line speed has also improved and he is pretty fast in transition now.

But unlike Mario, who was a tremendously fluid skater, Spezza is very stiff. He sets his feet and stickhandles when he attacks a defender - changing speed or direction is not in his arsenal. He is slow from a standstill so he can't come hard off the boards with the puck and becomes primarily a playmaker off the cycle. His shot release is also slow, as he has to set his feet to load and fire. So his shot is most dangerous off the rush or on the power play when he has time and space.

Defensively, he was awful at the start of his career. He has steadily improved and is pretty good now. But his poor skating agility will keep him from ever being an top defensive centre. He can't react quickly enough.

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07-13-2011, 07:13 PM
  #286
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Spezza has the heart of a mouse and is lazy as hell without the puck.

He was booed a lot in Windsor as a junior and embarrassingly floating in the NHL playoffs.

He seriously needs the proper wingers and quality dmen to compensate for his deficiencies. Then his offensive skill can be a team plus.

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Old
07-13-2011, 07:19 PM
  #287
BenchBrawl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Spezza has the heart of a mouse and is lazy as hell without the puck.

He was booed a lot in Windsor as a junior and embarrassingly floating in the NHL playoffs.

He seriously needs the proper wingers and quality dmen to compensate for his deficiencies. Then his offensive skill can be a team plus.
Are you sure we're watching the same Spezza for the last few years?
Spezza has heart , sometimes it's just his style that makes him look ''lazy''.

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Old
07-13-2011, 07:24 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Are you sure we're watching the same Spezza for the last few years?
Spezza has heart , sometimes it's just his style that makes him look ''lazy''.
Could he be changing his game in the last two years, yeah. I haven't watched much of the Sens since '09.

The Hockey News states about him:

Quote:
FLAWS: His skating ability, play without the puck and physical toughness are all average, at best. Can be guilty of overhandling the puck at times. Isn't always on the same page as his coaching staff.
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/...layer.cgi?2299

That's the Spezza I've known too.

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07-13-2011, 07:44 PM
  #289
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The MLDs have often had a lot of quality picks middraft, not the gradual drop off from round to round as the main ATDs. This MLD is no exception. After a stellar first round, the following couple of rounds could be reversed in bizarro world. That is, as a group, doesn't round 3 look better than round 2? If you were an organization that got to protect the rights of either group, which would you choose?

Round 2:

Ivan Boldirev, Billy Nicholson, Eric Vail, Dave Christian, Phat Wilson, Jim Riley, Alexei Morozov, Joe Cooper, Tom Hooper, Jim Morrison, Garry Galley, Billy McGimsie, Billy Breen

Round 3

James Stewart, Brian Campbell, Buzz Boll, Sergei Shepelev, Don Smith, Patrice Bergeron, Sergei Babinov, Ron Duguay, Robbie Ftorek, Kirk McLean, Jason Smith, Jan Erixon, Jack McDonald

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07-13-2011, 07:50 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Spezza has the heart of a mouse and is lazy as hell without the puck.

He was booed a lot in Windsor as a junior and embarrassingly floating in the NHL playoffs.

He seriously needs the proper wingers and quality dmen to compensate for his deficiencies. Then his offensive skill can be a team plus.
That was true for part of his career, so it is relevant here. But it's not the case anymore. Spezza has steadily improved without the puck. After the trade deadline last year he was Ottawa's best defensive centre and played very well in all defensive situations.

When did you watch him in the playoffs? His playoff performance is probably the best of any player in franchise history, except for Alfie in 07. Says more about the franchise, maybe, but he's been good.

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07-13-2011, 07:56 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
That was true for part of his career, so it is relevant here. But it's not the case anymore. Spezza has steadily improved without the puck. After the trade deadline last year he was Ottawa's best defensive centre and played very well in all defensive situations.
That could be. Ottawa and Toronto I made a point of NOT watching last season, knowing they'd suck as a team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
When did you watch him in the playoffs? His playoff performance is probably the best of any player in franchise history, except for Alfie in 07. Says more about the franchise, maybe, but he's been good.
The 2010 NHL playoffs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJPjVZjjIt0

Gawd he doesn't move his feet, relies on his stick. Sure looks like lack of hustle. Could he just have lead feet? Crosby was moving around but Spezza made him look better on the play as much as visa versa.

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07-13-2011, 08:02 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
That could be. Ottawa and Toronto I made a point of NOT watching last season, knowing they'd suck as a team.


The 2010 NHL playoffs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJPjVZjjIt0

Gawd he doesn't move his feet, relies on his stick. Sure looks like lack of hustle. Could he just have lead feet? Crosby was moving around but Spezza made him look better on the play as much as visa versa.
IMO he has lead feet as I posted earlier.

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07-13-2011, 08:52 PM
  #293
TheDevilMadeMe
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I'll be concerned if he doesn't sign on tonight to make them.
And while he's at it, a post in the roster thread would be nice (he's the only team that hasn't posted there). Speaking of the roster thread, is it possible for a mod (I guess that would be 70s or vecens) to clean it up and move chao's team to the proper division?

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07-13-2011, 09:11 PM
  #294
VanIslander
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Speaking of the roster thread, is it possible for a mod (I guess that would be 70s or vecens) to clean it up and move chao's team to the proper division?
I have PM'd them about it before. They'll get around to it I guess.

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07-13-2011, 09:34 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
what is a lead feet?
It means he has slow feet. No quickness.

The reason I think it's slow feet and not laziness is that I have never seen Spezza with quick feet on the ice. Whether with the puck or without the puck his feet are consistently stiff and slow. He can't change direction quickly, he can't change speeds quickly. While his top end speed is good, otherwise he is among the worst skaters in the league.

As a result he is merely a good scoring centre instead of a top 2 player.

I think he's a good pick for the MLD. Most of the players who could best exploit his weakness went in the ATD.

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Old
07-13-2011, 09:36 PM
  #296
BillyShoe1721
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I'm operating from my phone right now, but when I have a computer Friday expect bios for Wilson, Ftorek, and Smith. And a completed McDougall bio. I hope I can find some info on Smith.

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07-13-2011, 09:37 PM
  #297
VanIslander
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what is a lead feet?
It means HE DOESN'T MOVE his feet. He's not just slow, but his legs aren't moving. Coaches hate that. It's a mental thing.

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07-13-2011, 09:38 PM
  #298
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To solidify our offensive, we'll add one of the best offensive players of his era, Guy Chouinard



Sorry on the wait guys, had to do all of this via iPhone.

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Old
07-13-2011, 09:44 PM
  #299
seventieslord
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I have PM'd them about it before. They'll get around to it I guess.
Hey, I only got one pm from you about cleaning up the roster thread, and I did what you asked.

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07-13-2011, 09:47 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
It means HE DOESN'T MOVE his feet. He's not just slow, but his legs aren't moving. Coaches hate that. It's a mental thing.
Clouston wasn't a pushover, nor a fan of Spezza.

Let's see how this guy deals with his attitude.



Wonder if that's the amount of tolerance he has for it

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