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MLD 2011 Draft Thread I

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Old
07-11-2011, 12:51 PM
  #76
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Fear the horns. I've been invited back..and I will accept. I assume I will take the 15th slot.

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07-11-2011, 12:52 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Warroad Lakers select RW Carson Cooper
Always a fan of Mr. Shovel Shot. A legit first line winger at this level. Good pick.

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07-11-2011, 12:57 PM
  #78
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Fear the horns. I've been invited back..and I will accept. I assume I will take the 15th slot.
I've now been asked to take Killion's spot..

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Originally Posted by Killion
This is way more "work" than I ever anticipated. Take my spot, #11, Dixie Beehives.....

Killion
He fears the horns.

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07-11-2011, 12:58 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Warroad Lakers select RW Carson Cooper
Good pick, was thinking of selecting him to play with Larouche.

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Originally Posted by Stoneberg View Post
After much deliberation, the Sleepwatchers are pleased to select C, Gus Bodnar.

4 times top ten in assists and twice in points over a steady 650+ game career through the 40's and 50's.
Also a good pick, it was between Bodnar, undrafted and Larouche for me. Larouche's scoring totals where to much to pass up.

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07-11-2011, 01:05 PM
  #80
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Just got up and saw that I'm on the clock. Sorry for the delay here but the Garnish Dragons are proud to select with our first pick centre, Pierre Larouche.

Has some solid goal finishes...3rd, 7th and 9th..playing in an era with Gretzky, Dionne, Lafleur, Bossy and a few other greats. His game does drop a bit in the playoffs but I wouldn't say it drops to a point where it's very concerning. Top-10 in points just once is meh..my biggest concern with him is how poor defensively he really is. He didn't back-check and he didn't play defense whatsoever. He is a skater and shooter and that's about it. To me, he shouldn't go this high but his finishes in goals helps his cause to be picked high.

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07-11-2011, 01:09 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Warroad Lakers select RW Carson Cooper
I was very much hoping he'd be available for my next pick. Nice one.

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07-11-2011, 01:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Top-10 in points just once is meh..my biggest concern with him is how poor defensively he really is. He didn't back-check and he didn't play defense whatsoever.
Put him with a couple of defensively responsible wingers and put him on the power-play and he can contribute a lot of value.

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07-11-2011, 01:18 PM
  #83
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Put him with a couple of defensively responsible wingers and put him on the power-play and he can contribute a lot of value.
Sure, but you need defensively responsible guys that can skate and feed him the puck. There are more centers than wingers that fit that description.

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07-11-2011, 01:27 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Surely. I'm buoyed by the fact that Allan Cameron and Jack Campbell were both drafted in the ATD, Cameron at 653. .
That's IF they were even good picks then.

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Because hockey in 1893 and hockey in 1888 are the same thing. The addition of the Stanley Cup did not change things overnight. The AHAC originated in 1887, and the same group of teams competed then and into the late 1890s. They're literal contemporaries in that their careers do overlap some, but more importantly the conditions in which they played were basically identical.

There is no era dividing line between 1892 and 1893; this distinction is artificial and not reflective of the game on the ice.
This is a question of semantics at this point, but if the midpoints of those players' careers are over a decade apart and their careers didn't overlap in any meaningful way, then they are not contemporaries.

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Originally Posted by Stoneberg View Post
After much deliberation, the Sleepwatchers are pleased to select C, Gus Bodnar.

4 times top ten in assists and twice in points over a steady 650+ game career through the 40's and 50's.
He seems softish, but our impressions of him as a one-dimensional player in the past are a bit misguided. Numbers from the HSP that cover the last bit of his career show that he was among the better shorthanded point producers of his day.

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Originally Posted by Selfish Man View Post
The Penguins took their current second line center at #2 overall. I think they are happy with the value. The Hornets are ecstatic with getting theirs at #4.

In all seriousness, I'm okay with not getting a "first line" guy here. I have my eye on others who might fit that bill later on. I didn't think if I waited on a player like Normie (make sure you say it with a Boston accent, like Cliff Clavin ) that I'd be getting the same value at that spot.
- You can probably get better suited guys for the first line a bit later, then you have both them and Himes. It's probably a good idea.

- I might be doing the same thing with at least one third liner and one third pairing defenseman.

There's certainly no prescribed "order" in which you need to take certain positions, certainly not like there is in the ATD. A player taken at 1200th is about as valuable/important as a player taken at 1000th... not the same as 400th/600th.

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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
I've now been asked to take Killion's spot..



He fears the horns.
When did he say this? He sounds like he was already "saved" here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Has some solid goal finishes...3rd, 7th and 9th..playing in an era with Gretzky, Dionne, Lafleur, Bossy and a few other greats. His game does drop a bit in the playoffs but I wouldn't say it drops to a point where it's very concerning. Top-10 in points just once is meh..my biggest concern with him is how poor defensively he really is. He didn't back-check and he didn't play defense whatsoever. He is a skater and shooter and that's about it. To me, he shouldn't go this high but his finishes in goals helps his cause to be picked high.
This says it all.

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Old
07-11-2011, 01:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Warroad Lakers select RW Carson Cooper
We were also looking at Cooper, his playoff numbers scared us though.

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07-11-2011, 01:29 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by chaosrevolver View Post
Sure, but you need defensively responsible guys that can skate and feed him the puck. There are more centers than wingers that fit that description.
I tend to agree.

The "defensively responsible" wingers out there, aren't all that good offensively, and vice versa. Guys who are both, are long gone. (and you're not necessarily looking for "offensive" value to play with Larouche, I think you need "playmaking" value in particular) You're stuck with guys who are an 7 in one and a 4 in the other, because any winger who rates a 10 (from an MLD standpoint) in one category, is a 0-1 in the other.

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07-11-2011, 01:31 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I tend to agree.

The "defensively responsible" wingers out there, aren't all that good offensively, and vice versa. Guys who are both, are long gone. (and you're not necessarily looking for "offensive" value to play with Larouche, I think you need "playmaking" value in particular) You're stuck with guys who are an 7 in one and a 4 in the other, because any winger who rates a 10 (from an MLD standpoint) in one category, is a 0-1 in the other.
Indeed, I have been stuck in there very situation before. It is very hard to get a two-way winger that can pass the puck...especially in the MLD.

I'll be interested to see how they make it work.

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07-11-2011, 01:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
So it sounds like Killion is actually out... I don't get it! This draft is easier than he initially thought, not harder. And it's easier than he thought earlier this morning, too (picking players that never, ever got selected before)
Maybe he is more ready for picking the Orr's, Beliveau's, Mikita's, Coffey's, etc.?

Perhaps he just doesn't want to dig through the realms of hockey's past? Granted..this is nothing. For guys like you and me who did the AA draft..now that is something else

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Old
07-11-2011, 01:55 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
We were also looking at Cooper, his playoff numbers scared us though.
don't get me wrong on that one, I can see how it would. But he never really got the chance in the NHL to play on solid playoff teams. His OHA playoff numbers were pretty solid.

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07-11-2011, 01:58 PM
  #90
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don't get me wrong on that one, I can see how it would. But he never really got the chance in the NHL to play on solid playoff teams. His OHA playoff numbers were pretty solid.
Wouldn't scare me. 7 games is a very small portion size. He was top-3 in goals twice, 6th in assists once and top-3 in points twice. One of the best offensive peaks in the drafts and a very capable first line winger.

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07-11-2011, 02:10 PM
  #91
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don't get me wrong on that one, I can see how it would. But he never really got the chance in the NHL to play on solid playoff teams. His OHA playoff numbers were pretty solid.
Do we really put much importance on 7 games in Cooper's career here? In those 7 playoff games, he should have been expected to score only 3 points, and didn't get any. In 1932 he was a part-time player. In 1927 his playoff opponents were the two best defensive teams in the league (other than his own).

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07-11-2011, 02:14 PM
  #92
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The "defensively responsible" wingers out there, aren't all that good offensively, and vice versa. Guys who are both, are long gone.
Of course, they only need to be good playmakers and defensively responsible relative to the other players available in the MLD. These teams don't have to compete against the ATD teams, so you need to ignore the top 1000 players when making comparisons.

It's true the more complete players are gone, but I don't buy the idea that all 10s left in one category are 1s in the other. One winger leaps to mind for me.

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07-11-2011, 02:16 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Do we really put much importance on 7 games in Cooper's career here? In those 7 playoff games, he should have been expected to score only 3 points, and didn't get any. In 1932 he was a part-time player. In 1927 his playoff opponents were the two best defensive teams in the league (other than his own).
He's a question mark in the playoffs - completely unproven. "Unproven" is definitely better than "proven bad," but you always want a good mix of guys who got it done in clutch situations in the lineup. We picked Drozdetsky over Cooper because he is more proven in "big games" (which for non-NHL Euros were international tournaments). Cooper is still a very good first round pick - wingers with legit scoring credentials don't exactly grow on trees at this point.

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07-11-2011, 02:24 PM
  #94
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Of course, they only need to be good playmakers and defensively responsible relative to the other players available in the MLD. These teams don't have to compete against the ATD teams, so you need to ignore the top 1000 players when making comparisons.

It's true the more complete players are gone, but I don't buy the idea that all 10s left in one category are 1s in the other. One winger leaps to mind for me.
There are going to be some exceptions, but they aren't easy to come by when looking at defensively responsible playmaking wingers. The questions is..can you take a risk and go with 2 forwards for one line to start? Leaves you with no defense, goaltending and no secondary scoring going into the third round. I always think it's risky to go with two players for one line with your first two picks.

I did it in the ATD with Ted Lindsay and Bobby Clarke but that was a completely different can of corn that I presented there.

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07-11-2011, 02:24 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Iain Fyffe View Post
Of course, they only need to be good playmakers and defensively responsible relative to the other players available in the MLD. These teams don't have to compete against the ATD teams, so you need to ignore the top 1000 players when making comparisons.

It's true the more complete players are gone, but I don't buy the idea that all 10s left in one category are 1s in the other. One winger leaps to mind for me.
- That's why I said "from an MLD standpoint"

- One leaps to mind for me as well, but he's more like a 6 and a 6. I'm sure there's a some 10/2 and 10/3 guys and there's some 2/10 and 3/9 guys as well but very little middle ground.

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07-11-2011, 02:31 PM
  #96
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- That's why I said "from an MLD standpoint"

- One leaps to mind for me as well, but he's more like a 6 and a 6. I'm sure there's a some 10/2 and 10/3 guys and there's some 2/10 and 3/9 guys as well but very little middle ground.
So do you put a 10/2 guy with one very similar? I certainly wouldn't put a 2/10 with him..you have to surround someone like Larouche with offensive players that work with him and are responsible in their own end. They don't have to be superstars defensively..but responsible enough to perhaps turn that line into an average defensively trio with excellent offensive capabilities. I would say an 8/5 if that is possible, would be a good pick-up for Pierre. Doing that while surrounding that line with excellent defenders, a great goalie and secondary scoring is obviously not easy. That's the challenge with these drafts.

Also, I don't think I have ever posted so much in a draft thread. I guess that's what four months off of the ATD researching does for you.

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07-11-2011, 02:35 PM
  #97
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He's a question mark in the playoffs - completely unproven.
This might be where we differ - I don't buy into the idea that playoffs are magically different than the regular season. It's all hockey. The difference is that you tend to play against better teams, which is why pretty much every player's performance drops in the playoffs.

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07-11-2011, 02:38 PM
  #98
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This might be where we differ - I don't buy into the idea that playoffs are magically different than the regular season. It's all hockey. The difference is that you tend to play against better teams, which is why pretty much every player's performance drops in the playoffs.
It's not "magically different," but some players either can't handle the increased level of competition, or have games that don't translate well into the playoffs (perhaps a certain flaw in their game that opponents can take advantage of over a seven game series).

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07-11-2011, 02:41 PM
  #99
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It's not "magically different," but some players either can't handle the increased level of competition, or have games that don't translate well into the playoffs (perhaps a certain flaw in their game that opponents can take advantage of over a seven game series).
Exactly. The idea is if you can have an elite offensive player in the MLD, step up his game then that increases their value offensively. If they struggle and don't improve their level of play, it lowers their value or keeps it the same.

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07-11-2011, 03:00 PM
  #100
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