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[VAN/FLA] Canucks trade F Sergei Shirokov to Florida F Mike Duco

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07-10-2011, 08:10 PM
  #126
xtr3m
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@SlavaMalamud
Shirokov tells Sport-Expr he asked @VanCanucks 2 deal him @ trade deadline. "Were I traded to @FlaPanthers then, it would've been different"

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07-10-2011, 08:49 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by xtr3m View Post
@SlavaMalamud
Shirokov tells Sport-Expr he asked @VanCanucks 2 deal him @ trade deadline. "Were I traded to @FlaPanthers then, it would've been different"
hmmm...

well, that about confirms what i was getting at earlier about Shirokov seeing no light at the end of the tunnel with this organization and AV at the helm.

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07-10-2011, 09:39 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
hmmm...

well, that about confirms what i was getting at earlier about Shirokov seeing no light at the end of the tunnel with this organization and AV at the helm.
Nothing to do with Vigneault.

Shirokov was not a fit on an elite team, same as Grabner.

Who knows what if any interest he attracted at the trade deadline.

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07-10-2011, 09:41 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Nothing to do with Vigneault.

Shirokov was not a fit on an elite team, same as Grabner.

Who knows what if any interest he attracted at the trade deadline.
This (based on @ the time logic). At the time, Grabner was the logical asset to give up. Whether it would have been better to keep him or Raymond (or another offensive forward) remains to be seen.

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07-10-2011, 10:23 PM
  #130
biturbo19
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Nothing to do with Vigneault.

Shirokov was not a fit on an elite team, same as Grabner.

Who knows what if any interest he attracted at the trade deadline.
I disagree. I think it had an awful lot to do with Vigneault.


Shirokov probably never would've been good enough to crack this roster as a top-6 forward in any regular capacity, but the way his call-up stint was handled made this abundantly clear to him. If you make it abundantly clear that a player has no future in the organization, he is going to want out.

For better or worse, i think AV made it quite clear to Shirokov that he didn't have a real future with this organization.

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07-10-2011, 10:54 PM
  #131
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I don't look forward to this Duco guy.

Good luck to Shirokov. Hopefully he gets a shot in Florida.

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07-10-2011, 10:55 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by biturbo19 View Post
I disagree. I think it had an awful lot to do with Vigneault.


Shirokov probably never would've been good enough to crack this roster as a top-6 forward in any regular capacity, but the way his call-up stint was handled made this abundantly clear to him. If you make it abundantly clear that a player has no future in the organization, he is going to want out.

For better or worse, i think AV made it quite clear to Shirokov that he didn't have a real future with this organization.
Nothing to do with Vigneault.

Shirokov's skill set and position on the depth chart made it abundantly clear he was not NHL material on the Canucks.

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07-10-2011, 10:56 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Shirokov was not a fit on an elite team, same as Grabner.
Of course Grabner wasn't a good fit on this team. Vigneault wanted the top 9 forward group to get tougher and that was going to be difficult to do with Grabner around.

The question is, was that the right direction? Considering how much bigger of an impact player Grabner was this past season than his replacement Torres was I would have to say the answer is a resounding no.

I thought the Ballard deal at the time it was made was a good one but IMO Grabner's inclusion probably had more to do with the coaching staff wanting to change the makeup of the forward corps than Tallon's explicit interest in the scoring winger.

It'll be interesting to see what direction Gillis wants to take the team going forward. He's always talking about speed and skill and the Detroit model but at the same time comments on being gritty and hard to play against. As of right now he let his most feared and impactful bodychecking forward walk without giving him a very competetive offer and signed goalscoring winger Marco Sturm. Maybe that direction is being second guessed by management.

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07-10-2011, 10:58 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by kurt View Post
I don't look forward to this Duco guy.

Good luck to Shirokov. Hopefully he gets a shot in Florida.
Shirokov has already signed a deal in Russia according to reports.

The NHL and KHL have renewed their agreement to respect one another's contracts.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=371237

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07-10-2011, 11:11 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Nothing to do with Vigneault.

Shirokov's skill set and position on the depth chart made it abundantly clear he was not NHL material on the Canucks.
Maybe to some it was clear, but Shirokov seemed to genuinely believe that he had the ability to succeed here (whether that was a misguided belief or not is another matter entirely). Sticking it out in the minors, waiting for an opportunity...

Right up until the point where he was somewhat 'mishandled' by AV during his final extremely brief stint in the NHL, completely shattering that illusion for him. At which point, as reported above, he requested a trade out of organization (assumedly to a place where he would have a legitimate shot at cracking the NHL roster as a regular).

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07-11-2011, 12:13 AM
  #136
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Let's be clear: this was Shirokov's decision, not the Canucks. They would have gladly re-signed him. But after two years in North America, he didn't appear any closer to breaking into the NHL than after he had just arrived.

He is a 25 year old forward trying to crack the NHL. The probability of him succeeding, and garnering the kind of paychecks that he could in Russia, was slim. Kudos to him for giving it a shot and trying to play in the best league in the world.

I don't see the Canucks drafting a lot of Russians in the future. It's just not worth it to them to come over unless they are bona fide stars. As long as the NHL has ELC rules in place, they are going to be in tough to attract young Russian talent, and indeed may see increasing competition for young players from other European countries.

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07-11-2011, 12:32 AM
  #137
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I am sorry but saying grabner was not a fit for AV on the 2nd line is ridiculous.

While AV looks for defensive forwards, he is not a guy who would purposly not play talented speedy players like grabner just because of a few defensive shortcomings.

If grabner was not traded, he WOULD have been on our 2nd line last year, and with kesler and raymond, I could see ridiculous magic between the three.

The reason he got traded was, 1 - Gillis took a risk to get a potentially #3 d-man from florida in a better hockey type environment (clearly did not work out). Also he wanted more defense, incase Hamhuis was not signed on july 1st.

People that say, well we got 1 win away from a cup. Yes you are right, but you tell me how "amazing" or even "great" our 2nd line was all playoffs?, because it was all KESLER for the 2nd line, and nobody else. Higgins did his best to fill the roll, but he is more a third line guy. A guy like grabner would have tore up the NHL with kesler, we saw hints of this the year before, just needed to be a bit more consistent with development.

One final note, Grabner got 0% PP time here as well, Are you telling me grabs would not get a few more goals and points on our #2 PP unit which was GOD ****ING AWFUL?.

/rant

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Old
07-11-2011, 12:35 AM
  #138
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**** Duco

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Old
07-11-2011, 01:22 AM
  #139
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**** Duco
Insightful as usual.

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07-11-2011, 01:29 AM
  #140
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Insightful as usual.
edit - not worth the infraction


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07-11-2011, 01:37 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Of course Grabner wasn't a good fit on this team. Vigneault wanted the top 9 forward group to get tougher and that was going to be difficult to do with Grabner around.

The question is, was that the right direction? Considering how much bigger of an impact player Grabner was this past season than his replacement Torres was I would have to say the answer is a resounding no.

I thought the Ballard deal at the time it was made was a good one but IMO Grabner's inclusion probably had more to do with the coaching staff wanting to change the makeup of the forward corps than Tallon's explicit interest in the scoring winger.

It'll be interesting to see what direction Gillis wants to take the team going forward. He's always talking about speed and skill and the Detroit model but at the same time comments on being gritty and hard to play against. As of right now he let his most feared and impactful bodychecking forward walk without giving him a very competetive offer and signed goalscoring winger Marco Sturm. Maybe that direction is being second guessed by management.
I agree.

I'm really interested to see what direction this team is going in as well.

I still find myself scratching my head wondering why we let Ehrhoff go and kept Ballard when at the end of the day the difference between the two was likely no more than $1m and at most 2 more years of term.

Perhaps Gillis wanted to keep his options open down the line. Ehrhoff likely would have got a NTC while Ballard is a contract that you can move assuming he has a decent season next year.

Sturm is going to be an interesting player to watch. Gillis has said that he expect him to a guy that fights for a top six job but likely ends up on the third line and if that's the case then it's possible that he'll add a good scoring touch on that third line but what exactly is that third line. Malhotra isn't a great playmaking center so putting Sturm there might not work out.

I guess one option you can hope for is that Hodgson is ready to play a top nine role and you basically have the option to roll two third lines one that has a scoring touch and one that is a checking type of third line.

Perhaps something along the lines of this:

Sturm-Hodgson-Hansen
Higgins-Malhotra-Lappy

I don't think the loss of Torres is going to be that significant but at this point we're basically the same team as last year but without Ehrhoff. That team had it been healthy was good enough to win the cup IMO but we've now lost Ehrhoff and after a long playoff run I don't expect the journey to be easier.

I've said all along that it's important to be patient here and see what Gillis is going to do between now and when the playoffs start.

As of right now it appears to be a step back but that doesn't mean it'll be the same way come playoff time.

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Old
07-11-2011, 01:37 AM
  #142
Slashy McSlewfoot
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no one likes you zombie
HAHAHA

Only you would actually consider that an insult.

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07-11-2011, 01:41 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Slashy McSlewfoot View Post
HAHAHA

Only you would actually consider that an insult.
I also considered that an insult...

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07-11-2011, 01:44 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Nothing to do with Vigneault.

Shirokov's skill set and position on the depth chart made it abundantly clear he was not NHL material on the Canucks.
I'm not so sure it was abundantly clear actually. He was certainly our top prospect on the wing, and Raymond was in a huge funk at the time. But I guess your statement could be right if you meant the way he was handled made it clear he had no future with this team. As for skill set... I don't know.

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07-11-2011, 01:52 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Bgav View Post
no one likes you zombie
At least he provides some useful commentary unlike 98% of your posts. I don't always agree with him but even with I disagree with him completely I have more respect for what he posts than anything of yours I can remember reading. Grow up.

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07-11-2011, 02:02 AM
  #146
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At least he provides some useful commentary unlike 98% of your posts. I don't always agree with him but even with I disagree with him completely I have more respect for what he posts than anything of yours I can remember reading. Grow up.
So angry.. and put me on ignore. You're telling me to grow up? lol im sorry that i dont take hf boards as serious as you.


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07-11-2011, 02:08 AM
  #147
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So angry
Don't mistake anger for


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Old
07-11-2011, 02:21 AM
  #148
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I am sorry but saying grabner was not a fit for AV on the 2nd line is ridiculous.

While AV looks for defensive forwards, he is not a guy who would purposly not play talented speedy players like grabner just because of a few defensive shortcomings.

If grabner was not traded, he WOULD have been on our 2nd line last year, and with kesler and raymond, I could see ridiculous magic between the three.

The reason he got traded was, 1 - Gillis took a risk to get a potentially #3 d-man from florida in a better hockey type environment (clearly did not work out). Also he wanted more defense, incase Hamhuis was not signed on july 1st.

People that say, well we got 1 win away from a cup. Yes you are right, but you tell me how "amazing" or even "great" our 2nd line was all playoffs?, because it was all KESLER for the 2nd line, and nobody else. Higgins did his best to fill the roll, but he is more a third line guy. A guy like grabner would have tore up the NHL with kesler, we saw hints of this the year before, just needed to be a bit more consistent with development.

One final note, Grabner got 0% PP time here as well, Are you telling me grabs would not get a few more goals and points on our #2 PP unit which was GOD ****ING AWFUL?.

/rant
If Grabner couldn't make it past Florida's training camp, what makes you think he'll make it through ours?

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07-11-2011, 02:28 AM
  #149
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If Grabner couldn't make it past Florida's training camp, what makes you think he'll make it through ours?
Florida is retarded, you all saw what grabner had when he played for vancouver.

Dynamic game breaking speed and a sick shot.

For the islanders, he literally averaged two break aways a game.

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07-11-2011, 02:29 AM
  #150
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Don't mistake anger for

Can't agree with you on this one, Bgav has been around for awhile, in my opinion (everybody has there own), he is one of the better posters here.

Nothing wrong with showing emotion, I do it all the time, get into a ehrhoff debate, and you will see

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