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[VAN/FLA] Canucks trade F Sergei Shirokov to Florida F Mike Duco

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Old
07-11-2011, 03:41 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Can't agree with you on this one, Bgav has been around for awhile, in my opinion (everybody has there own), he is one of the better posters here.

Nothing wrong with showing emotion, I do it all the time, get into a ehrhoff debate, and you will see
I think he must be your buddy and you are sticking up for him, which is admirable, however IMO, his posts are usually amongst the most thoughtless things I've read around here. But it's getting off topic so...

Bad trade in general but good trade considering the position Gillis was in at that point. Looking forward to seeing what Duco is all about.

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07-11-2011, 03:48 AM
  #152
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Florida is retarded, you all saw what grabner had when he played for vancouver.

Dynamic game breaking speed and a sick shot.
Don't forget mind-boggling inconsistency.

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07-11-2011, 03:49 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I think he must be your buddy and you are sticking up for him, which is admirable, however IMO, his posts are usually amongst the most thoughtless things I've read around here. But it's getting off topic so...

Bad trade in general but good trade considering the position Gillis was in at that point. Looking forward to seeing what Duco is all about.

I feel honored that even though you cant stand my post, you still havent ignored me.


Last edited by Bgav: 07-11-2011 at 04:24 AM.
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07-11-2011, 03:50 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by James Woolf View Post
Don't forget mind-boggling inconsistency.
Kesler was badly inconsistent, more for his offensive game tho. then it all CLICKED, Grabner could learn a decent two way game with time.

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07-11-2011, 05:59 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
People that say, well we got 1 win away from a cup. Yes you are right, but you tell me how "amazing" or even "great" our 2nd line was all playoffs?, because it was all KESLER for the 2nd line, and nobody else. Higgins did his best to fill the roll, but he is more a third line guy. A guy like grabner would have tore up the NHL with kesler, we saw hints of this the year before, just needed to be a bit more consistent with development.

One final note, Grabner got 0% PP time here as well, Are you telling me grabs would not get a few more goals and points on our #2 PP unit which was GOD ****ING AWFUL?.

/rant
Grabner would have looked pretty good with Kesler for sure, although I guess the question would be whether he'd have developed the same way on the Canucks. It did take him half the season in NY to really break out.

Actually our 2nd PP unit wasn't that terrible. Certainly looked bad compared to our 1st unit, but the 2nd unit's PP goals/60 mins is actually comparable to the 1st unit of weaker PPs like the Kings.

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07-11-2011, 07:50 AM
  #156
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Don't now if this has been posted elsewhere but it sounds like Duco has burnt some bridges here. This guy is beginning to sound a more and more like Ott or Avery

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2011/07...-a-few-tweets/


Last edited by orcatown: 07-11-2011 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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07-11-2011, 08:02 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Don't now if this has been posted elsewhere but it sounds like Duco has burnt some bridges here. This guy is beginning to sound a more and more like Ott or Avery

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2011/07...-a-few-tweets/
ha, he's just saying what everyone is thinking.

this is pretty minor when you consider how much chirping takes place on the ice.

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07-11-2011, 08:37 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Don't now if this has been posted elsewhere but it sounds like Duco has burnt some bridges here. This guy is beginning to sound a more and more like Ott or Avery

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2011/07...-a-few-tweets/
http://twitter.com/#!/Duco87/status/77901836232835072

Nice background, Dunce-o!

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07-11-2011, 09:10 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Don't now if this has been posted elsewhere but it sounds like Duco has burnt some bridges here. This guy is beginning to sound a more and more like Ott or Avery

http://vansunsportsblogs.com/2011/07...-a-few-tweets/
I have a feeling when they finally meet, Hank will tell him straight up "Yes, I was in fact diving"

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07-11-2011, 10:06 AM
  #160
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I don't care what Mike Duco thinks about the NHL team he will not be a part of. If that guy sees a minute of regular season icetime this year it will only be because the Canucks decided to take a run at winning the Worst 4th Line in the NHL award for the third straight season. He can catch some Hawks games on his off-nights.

If Rypien was still a Canuck, Duco is the kind of guy he'd pound the snot out of in the first day of training camp.

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07-11-2011, 10:32 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I don't care what Mike Duco thinks about the NHL team he will not be a part of. If that guy sees a minute of regular season icetime this year it will only be because the Canucks decided to take a run at winning the Worst 4th Line in the NHL award for the third straight season. He can catch some Hawks games on his off-nights.

If Rypien was still a Canuck, Duco is the kind of guy he'd pound the snot out of in the first day of training camp.
He apologized and seemed like he's pretty excited to join the Canucks on Twitter if it makes you feel any better.

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07-11-2011, 11:15 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Florida is retarded, you all saw what grabner had when he played for vancouver.

Dynamic game breaking speed and a sick shot.

For the islanders, he literally averaged two break aways a game.
Nice.
Poor training camp effort = Trip to the AHL
Most teams live by this rule, but I guess you would have known better?

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07-11-2011, 11:22 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by JP Mick View Post
Nice.
Poor training camp effort = Trip to the AHL
Most teams live by this rule, but I guess you would have known better?
While I disagree with LB's choice of words, the answer to that question (amongst fans and hopefully management) would have been a resounding yes. I can't count one time where Michael Grabner had a good training camp in Vancouver; he was a player who always seemed to heat up as the year progressed.

His final year in Vancouver represented the first time he got a taste of the NHL, and he did pretty well with it--5 goals and 6 assists in 20 odd games, followed by a a semi-permanent spot on the fourth line for the playoffs on a pretty good Vancouver team.

I don't necessarilly disagree that he had a lousy camp in Florida, but I think it was absolutely dreadful asset management by Dale Talon to simply dump him via the waiver wire.

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07-11-2011, 11:30 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by JP Mick View Post
Nice.
Poor training camp effort = Trip to the AHL
Most teams live by this rule, but I guess you would have known better?
(Awesome avatar btw)

Re: Duco, he and I are no longer besties.

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Old
07-11-2011, 11:35 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
While I disagree with LB's choice of words, the answer to that question (amongst fans and hopefully management) would have been a resounding yes. I can't count one time where Michael Grabner had a good training camp in Vancouver; he was a player who always seemed to heat up as the year progressed.

His final year in Vancouver represented the first time he got a taste of the NHL, and he did pretty well with it--5 goals and 6 assists in 20 odd games, followed by a a semi-permanent spot on the fourth line for the playoffs on a pretty good Vancouver team.

I don't necessarilly disagree that he had a lousy camp in Florida, but I think it was absolutely dreadful asset management by Dale Talon to simply dump him via the waiver wire.
You have a good point and I don't think Dale got the "slow-start memo" on Grabs.
Tallon is a black and white type guy. Either you work hard and show good character or you don't play. It's a good rule to work and live by, but unfortunately in that case it bit him in the ass.

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07-11-2011, 11:36 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by James Woolf View Post
Don't forget mind-boggling inconsistency.
A player with less than 20 NHL games of experience had consistency issues? Color me shocked.

It wasn't Grabner's 5 goals in 20 games that should have made Gillis hesitant to move him, it should been the 60 plus shots. He was simply generating more offense than any rookie we've seen since Pavel Bure.

There was a lesson learned here for Mike Gillis and his crew. Don't trade rookies that generate more than 3 shots a game. Skilled forwards that get 250 shots on net a year are money in the bank for 25 goals, often upwards of 30.

Lesson learned. Don't let it happen again.

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07-11-2011, 11:37 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
While I disagree with LB's choice of words, the answer to that question (amongst fans and hopefully management) would have been a resounding yes. I can't count one time where Michael Grabner had a good training camp in Vancouver; he was a player who always seemed to heat up as the year progressed.

His final year in Vancouver represented the first time he got a taste of the NHL, and he did pretty well with it--5 goals and 6 assists in 20 odd games, followed by a a semi-permanent spot on the fourth line for the playoffs on a pretty good Vancouver team.

I don't necessarilly disagree that he had a lousy camp in Florida, but I think it was absolutely dreadful asset management by Dale Talon to simply dump him via the waiver wire.
A few things I wonder about is:

How bad do you have to be at a F&%@%$$ FLORIDA PANTHERS training camp to get shipped out that quickly? Did the team think he was that bad, or did Tallon just gamble that Grabs would slip through waivers? Bad gamble to say the least.

And I wonder if Grabner can maintain what he started last year? Someone pointed out that he was averaging two breakaways per game. That's an incredible stat and again, I wonder if he can maintain even close to that this year? In the NHL, when you are averaging two breakaways per game, you are certainly sneaking up on people. Or you are cherry picking hard.

Can't imagine how a style like that would fit into this version of the Canucks. Seen lots of guys with one huge year. I'll wait to see what he manages this season on the Mighty Islanders.

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07-11-2011, 11:42 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
(Awesome avatar btw)

Re: Duco, he and I are no longer besties.
Why! You didn't hate on his fedora did you?


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07-11-2011, 11:43 AM
  #169
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He had to give something up in the trade. What happens this year if Ballard plays a Top 4 role, plays it well, and Grabner's goal scoring dips down in the 20 goal range?

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07-11-2011, 11:44 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
A player with less than 20 NHL games of experience had consistency issues? Color me shocked.

It wasn't Grabner's 5 goals in 20 games that should have made Gillis hesitant to move him, it should been the 60 plus shots. He was simply generating more offense than any rookie we've seen since Pavel Bure.

There was a lesson learned here for Mike Gillis and his crew. Don't trade rookies that generate more than 3 shots a game. Skilled forwards that get 250 shots on net a year are money in the bank for 25 goals, often upwards of 30.

Lesson learned. Don't let it happen again.
Even though Grabs had 30+ goals with the Islanders this year, he was either ice cold or red hot.

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07-11-2011, 11:49 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by ddawg1950 View Post
A few things I wonder about is:

How bad do you have to be at a F&%@%$$ FLORIDA PANTHERS training camp to get shipped out that quickly? Did the team think he was that bad, or did Tallon just gamble that Grabs would slip through waivers? Bad gamble to say the least.

And I wonder if Grabner can maintain what he started last year? Someone pointed out that he was averaging two breakaways per game. That's an incredible stat and again, I wonder if he can maintain even close to that this year? In the NHL, when you are averaging two breakaways per game, you are certainly sneaking up on people. Or you are cherry picking hard.

Can't imagine how a style like that would fit into this version of the Canucks. Seen lots of guys with one huge year. I'll wait to see what he manages this season on the Mighty Islanders.
He sucked. Even at the ******* mother-****in' sorry-ass Panthers training camp.
He admitted as much himself when he was quoted as saying that he would have sent himself to the minors if he was Tallon.

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07-11-2011, 11:50 AM
  #172
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He had to give something up in the trade. What happens this year if Ballard plays a Top 4 role, plays it well, and Grabner's goal scoring dips down in the 20 goal range?
I'm not convinced Grabner's inclusion was because Tallon had to have him. IMO Grabner was part of the package because the Canucks didn't want another skilled player in the top 9 and wanted a guy like Raffi Torres to take his place. Wouldn't Tallon have given Gillis an opportunity to re-aquire Grabner for an asset before he put him on waivers?

I would be very surprised if a healthy Grabner isn't scoring upwards of 25 goals consistently. He just generates too many chances to be kept off the scoreboard. He'll be a 40 goalscorer IMO...

While we're playing the 'if' game - what happens if Gillis doesn't package Grabner up in that trade? Do the Canucks have their 1st Stanley cup in 41 years?

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07-11-2011, 12:00 PM
  #173
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Even though Grabs had 30+ goals with the Islanders this year, he was either ice cold or red hot.
He consistently generated offense. His production was off and on, like most goalscorers in the NHL...

Are people saying even with hindsight they would do that deal over again? We're talking about a guy with the 2nd most non PP goals in the NHL last year - while playing 15:00 a night.

I don't hear people justifying the Cam Neely trade saying it wasn't the Canucks fault because Vancouver gave him 3 years and he only had 14 goals in his final year as a Canuck. Why is that?

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07-11-2011, 12:00 PM
  #174
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^Possibly. Grabner would have had plenty of chances to crack into the top six with the injuries at various times to Burrows, Samuelsson and Raymond (each missed around 10 games). I also see Grabner as capable of at least 25 goals a season.

Anyway...back to the trade at hand, I'll re-iterate--Duco should be good for generating some competition for a fourth line roster spot. I think guys like he, Pinizzotto and Oreskovich will be in a bit of a dogfight for it.

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07-11-2011, 12:06 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
I'm not convinced Grabner's inclusion was because Tallon had to have him. IMO Grabner was part of the package because the Canucks didn't want another skilled player in the top 9 and wanted a guy like Raffi Torres to take his place. Wouldn't Tallon have given Gillis an opportunity to re-aquire Grabner for an asset before he put him on waivers?

I would be very surprised if a healthy Grabner isn't scoring upwards of 25 goals consistently. He just generates too many chances to be kept off the scoreboard. He'll be a 40 goalscorer IMO...

While we're playing the 'if' game - what happens if Gillis doesn't package Grabner up in that trade? Do the Canucks have their 1st Stanley cup in 41 years?
I'm glad you have the inside scoop. Gillis could have kept Grabner in the AHL for another year if he was non-essential to the deal. Dale Tallon does a lot of things that don't make much sense and some people have speculated he thought he could sneak Grabner through waivers.

You're playing a different "if" game. I'll say yes, the Canucks would be a dynasty that would never lose a hockey game with Grabner. Not one.

My "if" game isn't really a game. We're going to be able to see what happens in real life.

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