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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part III (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

View Poll Results: Which team is better?
Former Habs 34 44.16%
Current Habs 33 42.86%
It's even 4 5.19%
None 6 7.79%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-04-2012, 01:06 PM
  #876
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Bottom line:

I know it was 2 years ago already, but it is INCONCEIVABLE that Price would be capable of shutting the door in the Caps and Pens series the way Halak did.

While I'm at it...

It is also inconceivable that Bourque could lead the NHL in playoff points the way Cammy did.
Maybe not at that time, but Price's ability is on another level from Halak.

Not to downplay what Halak did but the Habs gave up a ton of shots but mostly from outside and collapsed to get the rebounds.

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02-04-2012, 01:40 PM
  #877
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Maybe not at that time, but Price's ability is on another level from Halak.

Not to downplay what Halak did but the Habs gave up a ton of shots but mostly from outside and collapsed to get the rebounds.
Halak made a many outstanding saves. One of the most memorable for me was on Crosby in game 7 on a Pit PP.

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02-04-2012, 01:44 PM
  #878
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Ken Hitchcock Goalie God (as long as his players buy in)

Pascal Leclaire 9 shutouts
Steve Mason 10 shutouts and a Calder Trophy.

Enough said.

Not saying Halak is a bad goalie, he's clearly a good goalie, but lets not overinflate his stats either.... Elliott has 5 shutouts this season too.

Hitchcock teams just make their goalies look great, until Hitch's act wears off and they stop playing for him.

Didnt he make Cechmanek look like a great goalie in Philly too?

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02-04-2012, 01:59 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Ken Hitchcock Goalie God (as long as his players buy in)

Pascal Leclaire 9 shutouts
Steve Mason 10 shutouts and a Calder Trophy.

Enough said.

Not saying Halak is a bad goalie, he's clearly a good goalie, but lets not overinflate his stats either.... Elliott has 5 shutouts this season too.

Hitchcock teams just make their goalies look great, until Hitch's act wears off and they stop playing for him.

Didnt he make Cechmanek look like a great goalie in Philly too?
Halak's stats are currently around his career avg, plus whatever improvements one would expect with career progression. We already know what he can do in the playoffs on an 8th seed team, so he's already a proven commodity in that department as well. I guess it's always possible to describe a goalie as either being a contributor to success or benefactor of a system. It really depends on what the underlying motivation is for the description.

I guess the ultimate arbitrator of "system vs goalie" will be the playoffs, since those goalies you listed did not experience much playoff success despite good regular reasons?

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02-04-2012, 02:05 PM
  #880
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Halak's stats are currently around his career avg, plus whatever improvements one would expect with career progression. We already know what he can do in the playoffs on an 8th seed team, so he's already a proven commodity in that department as well. I guess it's always possible to describe a goalie as either being a contributor to success or benefactor of a system. It really depends on what the underlying motivation is for the description.

I guess the ultimate arbitrator of "system vs goalie" will be the playoffs, since those goalies you listed did not experience much playoff success despite good regular reasons?
5 shutouts in 28 games is not around his career averages. Its a big jump.

A 1.96 GAA is almost 1/2 a goal better than his other full seasons.

The SV% is the only number that is pretty close.

This tells me its definitely Hitchcock's system that is helping those two numbers.

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02-04-2012, 02:11 PM
  #881
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SV% is the main number we use to evaluate a goalie independent of team success or even shutouts which are more a matter of good fortune than anything else. Halak is playing as well as he did in Montreal two seasons ago. Like I said, Hitchcock has not transformed mediocre or even decent goalies into playoff gods, so there will be an opportunity to analyze a different set of data that could help clarify the issue anyway.

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02-04-2012, 02:18 PM
  #882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
5 shutouts in 28 games is not around his career averages. Its a big jump.

A 1.96 GAA is almost 1/2 a goal better than his other full seasons.

The SV% is the only number that is pretty close.

This tells me its definitely Hitchcock's system that is helping those two numbers.
I think the "established" pattern is that goalies maintain similar SV% wherever they go, but numbers like wins, GAA and SO vary more with strength of the team/system they play behind. That's why I'll always argue that SV% is a much better gauge of the goalie's ability (and not as much his ability to play behind a certain team/system) than any of the other stats.

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02-04-2012, 02:23 PM
  #883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Bottom line:

I know it was 2 years ago already, but it is INCONCEIVABLE that Price would be capable of shutting the door in the Caps and Pens series the way Halak did.

While I'm at it...

It is also inconceivable that Bourque could lead the NHL in playoff points the way Cammy did.
Sure and it's inconceivable that any goalie could have done what Theodore did for the Habs during the 2001/2002 season. Are we going to keep living in the past or move on?

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02-04-2012, 03:09 PM
  #884
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Sure and it's inconceivable that any goalie could have done what Theodore did for the Habs during the 2001/2002 season. Are we going to keep living in the past or move on?
Is is the EX-HABS thread.....if there is ONE thread to live in the past, that's the one. That's exactly why I insisted to have that kind of thread so that people who wouldn't want to live in the past, wouldn't have to see that thread.

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02-04-2012, 03:10 PM
  #885
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Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
5 shutouts in 28 games is not around his career averages. Its a big jump.

A 1.96 GAA is almost 1/2 a goal better than his other full seasons.

The SV% is the only number that is pretty close.

This tells me its definitely Hitchcock's system that is helping those two numbers.
Shoutouts or no, it's not hard to think that with an average team like we've given him, he was doing great. So with a better team, he does better no?

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02-04-2012, 03:57 PM
  #886
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Halak made a many outstanding saves. One of the most memorable for me was on Crosby in game 7 on a Pit PP.
Price plaed as well or better last year vs Boston but we were missing too many soldiers.

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02-04-2012, 05:14 PM
  #887
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I think the "established" pattern is that goalies maintain similar SV% wherever they go, but numbers like wins, GAA and SO vary more with strength of the team/system they play behind. That's why I'll always argue that SV% is a much better gauge of the goalie's ability (and not as much his ability to play behind a certain team/system) than any of the other stats.
For the most part I agree with that. However I don't think SV% is a perfect stat either.

Some teams and systems will keep shots to the outside, and minimize quality chances.

Others play wide open offensive systems and the chances against are from more prime scoring areas.

So while I do agree its better than the other goalie stats, I don't feel that any goalie stat is perfect.

This is why a stats only or moneyball approach to hockey doesnt work.

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02-04-2012, 05:17 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Shoutouts or no, it's not hard to think that with an average team like we've given him, he was doing great. So with a better team, he does better no?
I agree with that....St. Louis right now is a better team than any team we ever had in front of either Price or Halak.

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02-06-2012, 07:28 PM
  #889
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New Cammy Ad



Looks pretty sweet, but I think we know better than to fall for these videos with him.

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02-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  #890
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Imagine if he had worked that hard on the ice this year with the Habs....he'd have 25 goals and 40+ points right now and the team would be in a playoff spot.....but thats the only time he's broken a sweat this season!!

Since his shoulder injury....he's been even softer than before...he won't go near a corner and battle for a puck at all anymore. He's a totally different player than he was 2 or 3 seasons ago!

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02-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  #891
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what a loser

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02-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #892
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So that's why he has no energy left when he's playing hockey.

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02-06-2012, 07:39 PM
  #893
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He even runs like a girl.

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02-06-2012, 07:53 PM
  #894
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I checked video of Scott Thornton last night and I want to share this with you. One of my favourite player as a young boy ! He was spectacular and I miss moments like this.

A long time ago, we were able to answer the bell against the Bruins... What a fight. For men only







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02-06-2012, 08:20 PM
  #895
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I checked video of Scott Thornton last night and I want to share this with you. One of my favourite player as a young boy ! He was spectacular and I miss moments like this.

A long time ago, we were able to answer the bell against the Bruins... What a fight. For men only






Loved Scotty as well. I remember in junior when he laid a beating on Chris Simon.

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02-06-2012, 08:32 PM
  #896
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Is is the EX-HABS thread.....if there is ONE thread to live in the past, that's the one. That's exactly why I insisted to have that kind of thread so that people who wouldn't want to live in the past, wouldn't have to see that thread.
I'm referring to the concept of thinking we should have kept Halak because of his 2 round playoff performance and dwell on it. I don't mind the thread, I'm just wondering what it'd take to move on from this particular comparison. Theodore was the last player for us to win major awards and his accomplishments were pretty quickly forgotten and moved on from. Does Halak have to fall off the face of the earth? Does he have to get knocked out of the playoffs?

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02-06-2012, 08:53 PM
  #897
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Scott Thornton...What a bust.

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02-07-2012, 07:12 AM
  #898
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Should we bring back Pete Dags?

Destroying it in the minors, clearly superior to Gomez, time to push the button.



A heros return.

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02-07-2012, 07:32 AM
  #899
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Destroying it in the minors, clearly superior to Gomez, time to push the button.



A heros return.
He's not even in the minors he is in some Euro B league.

Maybe if we can get Tim the tool man Taylor to put a better moton on him, the Binford 2015.

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02-07-2012, 07:40 AM
  #900
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I just threw up a bit in my mouth.

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