got a question for Flames fan, Why are they always going off the board with long term prospect?
Do management think the crop of star players at the NHL level will still be going strong in 7-8 years? That's my problem with picks like Jankowski and Gaudreau. They may pan out, but not for a long time.
Because choosing safe picks for a number of years under Sutter did us nothing and we deserving got crapped on here for that. If Jank and Gaudreau pan out then it doesn't matter how long it takes because it would have been worth waiting for top line talent than taking a short cut.
WHL, OHL QMJHL. All 3 leagues produce the highest amount of 1 & 2 rounder.
NCAA is not on that level.
Interesting to see what Russian posters think of the RHL, the feeder league to the KHL. I dont think any players from there play in the NHL but they supply alot og KHL players. I wonder how it is in comparison to NCAA.
Also, I wonder how a really good Canadian University team like UofA would do against a good NCAA team. Those university teams are almost made up of ex CHLers who are older. Whereas NCAA is made up of americans from USHL and canadians from Jr.A leagues who are 2-3 years younger.
They would get their ***** handed to them. You're not giving near enough credit to the NCAA.
And the NCAA doesn't have first rounders because you can't play there until you're in university. Meaning most kids are 18, and handful are 17. And kids are drafted by then...
CHL = 16-21 with the majority of players being 16-20 due to overage limits.
NCAA = 18+ (no age limit as far as I'm aware, and there are a substantial number of 23, 24 year olds)
You've got a league where half the players are still growing vs a league that's comprised almost exclusively of adults, many of whom have spent a great deal more time in the gym than kids in Major Junior.
Statistically, players numbers transfer best from the NCAA. There is simply less time and space to work with and the teams are typically more polished across the league. There is a lot better balance of talent, which leads to less scoring. Point per Game scoring from the NCAA transfers typically about 20% better to the NHL game than in the CHL. Amongst the CHL leagues, the WHL is the best, The OHL is a few percentage points below that, and the Q is a few percentage points below that. (EDIT: For the Record, the USHL typically transfers at about 50% below the Q).
The CIS is nowhere near any of those leagues. In fact, it transfers at about 70% below the CHL.
A few points.
A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.
B) The CIS is nowhere comparable to either league. How many NHLers have been even played in the CIS? I can think of one. Joel Ward. Joel Ward has one of the coolest paths to the NHL ever. Look it up.
Last edited by TheBakester66: 11-26-2012 at 03:37 PM.
Reason: Added USHL comparable
Statistically, players numbers transfer best from the NCAA. There is simply less time and space to work with and the teams are typically more polished across the league. There is a lot better balance of talent, which leads to less scoring. Point per Game scoring from the NCAA transfers typically about 20% better to the NHL game than in the CHL. Amongst the CHL leagues, the WHL is the best, The OHL is a few percentage points below that, and the Q is a few percentage points below that. (EDIT: For the Record, the USHL typically transfers at about 50% below the Q).
The CIS is nowhere near any of those leagues. In fact, it transfers at about 70% below the CHL.
A few points.
A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.
B) The CIS is nowhere comparable to either league. How many NHLers have been even played in the CIS? I can think of one. Joel Ward. Joel Ward has one of the coolest paths to the NHL ever. Look it up.
brendan morrison, martin st. louis, eric perrin all had higher than 2.0 PPG after kariya did. it's still an oddity to score at that clip from the 1980's until present and especially in today's NCAA which is more defensive oriented.
Statistically, players numbers transfer best from the NCAA. There is simply less time and space to work with and the teams are typically more polished across the league. There is a lot better balance of talent, which leads to less scoring. Point per Game scoring from the NCAA transfers typically about 20% better to the NHL game than in the CHL. Amongst the CHL leagues, the WHL is the best, The OHL is a few percentage points below that, and the Q is a few percentage points below that. (EDIT: For the Record, the USHL typically transfers at about 50% below the Q).
The CIS is nowhere near any of those leagues. In fact, it transfers at about 70% below the CHL.
A few points.
A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.
B) The CIS is nowhere comparable to either league. How many NHLers have been even played in the CIS? I can think of one. Joel Ward. Joel Ward has one of the coolest paths to the NHL ever. Look it up.
The large majority of CHL players never make it to the NHL either. If you take a random CHL team, the chances of them having an NHL quality future player is fairly low, usually around 1 or 2. The CIS is made up of the rest of those CHL kids, the only difference is they are a bit older and more experienced.
I know this is HF Boards so hyperbole is at a premium, but I think Gaudreau may have the best hockey IQ/sense of any US player since Brett Hull. I'm not sure about P. Kane. In fact, the only US players I can think of that may have had better hockey IQ/sense are Hull and Leetch.
Whether physically he can play in the NHL is the only question.
If most guys actually started at 18 in the NCAA then it wouldn't be much of a difference but a lot of freshman are 20, 21 and are 23, 24+ by the time they're done. And at that age it is a big difference.
A) When was the last time you saw anyone in the NCAAs score more than (or even around) 2 PTS/GP? And i'm talking about players in a legit conference. The only one I can name definitively is Paul Kariya for the U of Maine in 92 and 93 (look it up). Whereas in the CHL, we've had plenty of guys get near or reach 2 pts/gp. Last Year, Sven Bartschi and Jonathan Huberdeau did it. There may be others, i haven't looked. It's a combination of the NCAAs being a much more team oriented game, better defense, less careless play, and the talent level of offensive players just not being as high as we see in the CHL year in year out.
.
Would be funny if John Gaudreau did it this year: 11GP 19P so far. lol
NCAA would wipe the floor with any CHL team. The speed and strength of those teams would be more than enough to handedly dominate a 7 game series.
Does the CHL develop more NHLers? Ofcourse! But the difference in talent is not that large, whereas as the difference between a team with an avg age of 21 vs 18 is HUGE!
B) The CIS is nowhere comparable to either league. How many NHLers have been even played in the CIS? I can think of one. Joel Ward. Joel Ward has one of the coolest paths to the NHL ever. Look it up.
Amazingly, they're still the best team in the league even after losing three of their best players in Kreider, Cross, and Dumolin.
It takes a special kind of coach/team to pull that off.
Paul Carey and Barry Almeida were pretty darn good too, it certainly helps getting Gaudreau and Parker Milner, arguably the best goalie in the country back though.
Amazingly, they're still the best team in the league even after losing three of their best players in Kreider, Cross, and Dumolin.
It takes a special kind of coach/team to pull that off.
York has 5 NCAA title rings. Four of BC's five national titles came under his helm. The only title that BC has won not under York was in 1949. Three in the last five NCAA titles have been won by BC. He's reached the final seven times in 18 years as the coach. That's means almost 40% of the time that York has been coach of BC, he has reached the championship game. By my count there are 23 BC alumni that were playing in the NHL last season.
I know this is HF Boards so hyperbole is at a premium, but I think Gaudreau may have the best hockey IQ/sense of any US player since Brett Hull. I'm not sure about P. Kane. In fact, the only US players I can think of that may have had better hockey IQ/sense are Hull and Leetch.
Whether physically he can play in the NHL is the only question.
I'm surprised that as of yet, not a single person has commented on this. That's incredible praise.
NCAA would wipe the floor with any CHL team. The speed and strength of those teams would be more than enough to handedly dominate a 7 game series.
Does the CHL develop more NHLers? Ofcourse! But the difference in talent is not that large, whereas as the difference between a team with an avg age of 21 vs 18 is HUGE!
I dunno, I think the difference between the top CHL teams and NCAA teams is close.
I think it would be really cool to see a Memorical Cup Champion vs. NCAA Champion match. Would be really interesting to see how they stack up.
The coach of Dartmouth who has been around the Big East for 15 years or so compared Gaudreau to Paul Kariya after the game this weekend.
Wow, thats big praise. I try not to get too excited about Johnny as he still has a long way to go, but its hard not to when we has gotten so much praise lately.
Actually I thought that they two leagues would be comparable... until I went to an NCAA game. The guys are so much bigger than in the CHL and are all around better players. I saw Minnesota play and a guy like Bjugstad would destroy the CHL.
Actually I thought that they two leagues would be comparable... until I went to an NCAA game. The guys are so much bigger than in the CHL and are all around better players. I saw Minnesota play and a guy like Bjugstad would destroy the CHL.
A guy like Charlie Coyle did destroy the CHL, although it was in the Q. Was a 2 PPG player in the playoffs.
