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Most Well Rounded Players Ever

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Old
07-12-2011, 04:56 PM
  #26
Hawksfan2828
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A lesser known name would be Steve Larmer... Obviously he won't be named in the same breath with some of the aforementioned players, however he was still a complete player, and a mighty good one to boot...

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07-12-2011, 04:57 PM
  #27
redbull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilus View Post
Bobby Orr

Gordie Howe
Stan Mikita
Bobby Clarke
Bryan Trottier
Sergei Fedorov
besides the old guys (Howe and Makita - whom I never saw play, until they were really old) I'd place Clarke, Trottier, Fedorov and Forsberg in the same group, when healthy.

Lindros wasn't very good defensively, he was just fierce on offense and along the boards.

Today, Datsyuk is close, even though he brings no physical play.

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07-13-2011, 08:57 AM
  #28
Psycho Papa Joe
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Amongst guys I've seen, in no particular order, the seven most complete players I've seen. Basically, based my ratings on physicality, offense and defense. Guys who were very good to elite in those three areas at the same time:

Clarke
Trottier
Robinson
Potvin
Chelios
Stevens
Pronger

Appologies to Fedorov, Bourque and Lidstrom, but they weren't mean enough or hit hard enough to make my list, even though they may be superior talents. A peak Messier wasn't strong enough defensively.


Last edited by Psycho Papa Joe: 07-14-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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Old
07-13-2011, 09:00 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Amongst guys I've seen, in no particular order, the six most complete players I've seen. Basically, based my ratings on physicality, offense and defense. Guys who were elite in those three areas at the same time:

Clarke
Trottier
Robinson
Potvin
Chelios
Stevens

Appologies to Fedorov, Bourque and Lidstrom, but they weren't mean enough or hit hard enough to make my list, even though they may be superior talents. A peak Messier wasn't strong enough defensively. Pronger misses out because of good but not great offensive skills.
I think though leadership skills should be included when judging the most "well rounded" players.

I think Mikita, Howe, Orr, Clarke and Beliveau have to be the top 5 for me, Yzerman and Messier to a lesser extent.

... when it comes though to physicality, tenacity, defense, offense and leadership the aforementioned 5 should be on everyone's list.

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07-13-2011, 09:02 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
I think though leadership skills should be included when judging the most "well rounded" players.

I think Mikita, Howe, Orr, Clarke and Beliveau have to be the top 4 for me.
Good point. Coincidentally, all six guys I chose were also great leaders, so taking that into account, my list remains the same.

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07-13-2011, 09:27 AM
  #31
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Other then some already aformentioned players who deserve to be on that list I would nominate an Olympic silver medallist, a Memcup winner and a recent inductee into the HHoF.

A player who in his Jr days played defence, wing and centre, was an allstar in the WHA as a LW and Dman, was exclusively an allstar defenceman in the NHL and some say the best Flyer Dman of all time, Mark Howe

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07-13-2011, 10:09 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Amongst guys I've seen, in no particular order, the six most complete players I've seen. Basically, based my ratings on physicality, offense and defense. Guys who were elite in those three areas at the same time:

Clarke
Trottier
Robinson
Potvin
Chelios
Stevens

Appologies to Fedorov, Bourque and Lidstrom, but they weren't mean enough or hit hard enough to make my list, even though they may be superior talents. A peak Messier wasn't strong enough defensively. Pronger misses out because of good but not great offensive skills.
Finally a Potvin mention. IMO the most complete player ever. Passing, shooting, skating, smarts, tough play, great defense, leadership... its all there in spades. I liked his attitude a lot too. He had that chip on his shoulder to be a great player and that rubbed off on his team.

Very surprised that Vlad Konstantinov and Iggy haven't been mentioned yet.

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07-13-2011, 10:22 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by #66 View Post
Finally a Potvin mention. IMO the most complete player ever. Passing, shooting, skating, smarts, tough play, great defense, leadership... its all there in spades. I liked his attitude a lot too. He had that chip on his shoulder to be a great player and that rubbed off on his team.

Very surprised that Vlad Konstantinov and Iggy haven't been mentioned yet.
Potvin should be mentioned as well but I have to disagree when you say he's the most complete player "ever".

Orr for starters was a more complete player among defensemen.

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07-13-2011, 10:50 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
besides the old guys (Howe and Makita - whom I never saw play, until they were really old) I'd place Clarke, Trottier, Fedorov and Forsberg in the same group, when healthy.

Lindros wasn't very good defensively, he was just fierce on offense and along the boards.

Today, Datsyuk is close, even though he brings no physical play.
You haven't seen enough of Pavel Datsyuk then cause he's a great hitter. He tends to save it for the playoffs but he's very physical whether it's fighting off players when he has the puck, battling in the corners or making a nice hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_c5bNXaVfQ

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07-13-2011, 10:53 AM
  #35
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Konstantinov had a career high of 38 points, how is that among the most well rounded ever?

Also, Forsberg was severely lacking in the category of goal-scoring, at least to be compared to the Howes and Mikitas this thread was made for. Between 1994 and 2003 (the era in which Forsberg played most of his games and challenged for the Art Ross), Eric Daze and Petr Nedved were comparable goal scorers (actually, they put up better goal scoring numbers).

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07-13-2011, 11:25 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by danincanada View Post
You haven't seen enough of Pavel Datsyuk then cause he's a great hitter. He tends to save it for the playoffs but he's very physical whether it's fighting off players when he has the puck, battling in the corners or making a nice hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_c5bNXaVfQ
I should have reworded the physical game comment a bit. I definitely agree that Datsyuk definitely doesn't shy away from contact, he can (and will) take a hit to make a play (usually a great play!) and he's a bull-dog with the puck, deceptively strong on his skates, on the puck, not easily knocked off stride.

What I meant was more that he didn't initiate physical play as much as some of the others on the list - such as Trottier and Clarke. These guys were intimidating physically. Players feared going into the boards with these players because they'd get hurt, either with a clean body check or a dirty elbow/stick. Datsyuk doesn't instill that level of fear/intimidation in opponents with his physical play at all.

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07-13-2011, 11:53 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I should have reworded the physical game comment a bit. I definitely agree that Datsyuk definitely doesn't shy away from contact, he can (and will) take a hit to make a play (usually a great play!) and he's a bull-dog with the puck, deceptively strong on his skates, on the puck, not easily knocked off stride.

What I meant was more that he didn't initiate physical play as much as some of the others on the list - such as Trottier and Clarke. These guys were intimidating physically. Players feared going into the boards with these players because they'd get hurt, either with a clean body check or a dirty elbow/stick. Datsyuk doesn't instill that level of fear/intimidation in opponents with his physical play at all.
I dunno, some of those hits by Datsyuk look like they hurt (intimidation) and most of them were initiated by Datsyuk. Bobby Clarke couldn't hit like that and being dirty shouldn't help make a player be seen as "more well rounded".

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07-13-2011, 12:05 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
Konstantinov had a career high of 38 points, how is that among the most well rounded ever?

Also, Forsberg was severely lacking in the category of goal-scoring, at least to be compared to the Howes and Mikitas this thread was made for. Between 1994 and 2003 (the era in which Forsberg played most of his games and challenged for the Art Ross), Eric Daze and Petr Nedved were comparable goal scorers (actually, they put up better goal scoring numbers).
This is just my opinion but Forsberg along with Messier and Datsyuk are the three most overrated players on Hfboards.

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07-13-2011, 12:22 PM
  #39
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- Howe
- Mikita
- Beliveau
- Orr
- Clarke
- Potvin
- Trottier
- Messier
- Bourque
- Gilmour
- Fedorov
- Lindros
- Pronger
- Forsberg
- Datsyuk
- Crosby

Those are the most well rounded players in NHL history. Not a guy there who can't hit, defend, control the puck, make a play, or score a goal. All are very clutch too as well, a ton of heart. Hope I didn't miss any.

Players like Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Sakic lack a physical game to the point where I couldn't include them on a list of most well rounded, but would instead belong on a list of best two-way players.

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07-13-2011, 12:40 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jags6868 View Post
This is just my opinion but Forsberg along with Messier and Datsyuk are the three most overrated players on Hfboards.
Interesting opinion for sure. Makes me question how much you have watched them, especially during the playoffs? Can't think of many centers besides the obvious two who I'd decisively prefer on my team if I'm trying to win a Stanley Cup.

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07-13-2011, 12:50 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Chrono Trigger View Post
- Howe
- Mikita
- Beliveau
- Orr
- Clarke
- Potvin
- Trottier
- Messier
- Bourque
- Gilmour
- Fedorov
- Lindros
- Pronger
- Forsberg
- Datsyuk
- Crosby

Those are the most well rounded players in NHL history. Not a guy there who can't hit, defend, control the puck, make a play, or score a goal. All are very clutch too as well, a ton of heart. Hope I didn't miss any.

Players like Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and Sakic lack a physical game to the point where I couldn't include them on a list of most well rounded, but would instead belong on a list of best two-way players.
IMO, Gilmour and Fedorov were no more physical than the guys you want to call two-way players (Sakic, Zetterberg and Lidstrom).

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07-13-2011, 01:09 PM
  #42
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Forsberg was the most well rounded player ever.

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07-13-2011, 01:10 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by danincanada View Post
IMO, Gilmour and Fedorov were no more physical than the guys you want to call two-way players (Sakic, Zetterberg and Lidstrom).
I agree with this.

The fact is, the many shades of grey in between what's "physical" confuses things.
Still a pretty good list of hockey players!

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Old
07-13-2011, 01:16 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by danincanada View Post
IMO, Gilmour and Fedorov were no more physical than the guys you want to call two-way players (Sakic, Zetterberg and Lidstrom).
I would say they were certainly a notch above them in terms of physical play. Not bulldozers by any means, but I don't recall seeing the three of them throw their body around or muck it up in the corners quite like these two could and would.

Skip to 2:50 of this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxuP8...eature=related

Then here's Fedorov.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcPq5OMzVMo

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07-13-2011, 01:21 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
Forsberg was the most well rounded player ever.
So you don't have to be a particularly good goal-scorer to be more well-rounded than Howe, Mikita, etc?
Tell me what weakness Gordie Howe had, that was as weak as Forsberg's goal-scoring.

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07-13-2011, 01:38 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by danincanada View Post
IMO, Gilmour and Fedorov were no more physical than the guys you want to call two-way players (Sakic, Zetterberg and Lidstrom).
One of these things is not like the others.

Gilmour no more physical than Lidstrom/Sakic/Zetterberg.

Now I've heard it all..

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07-13-2011, 01:38 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
So you don't have to be a particularly good goal-scorer to be more well-rounded than Howe, Mikita, etc?
Tell me what weakness Gordie Howe had, that was as weak as Forsberg's goal-scoring.
He didn't play recently. This is Infinite Vision, after all.

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07-13-2011, 01:44 PM
  #48
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Jarome Iginla?

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Old
07-13-2011, 01:47 PM
  #49
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I was going to answer...but Brave beat me to it. Thanks, you know me all too well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRtrQ1YrCzw

Can we stop pretending he wasn't an absolutely amazing goalscorer...

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07-13-2011, 01:49 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Infinite Vision View Post
I was going to answer...but Brave beat me to it. Thanks, you know me all too well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRtrQ1YrCzw

Can we stop pretending he wasn't an absolutely amazing goalscorer...
A goalscorer with 30 as his career high is not very impressive. He hit that number 3 times in his career.

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