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Free Agent Frenzy Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
07-13-2011, 10:47 AM
  #26
My name is Legion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
To tor
gagner
7th

To edm
Gunnarsson
bozak
holzer

Center experiment for a good young possible top4 dman in Gunnarsson, a shut down d prospect in holzer and a more suitable bottom 6 center and gange replacement bozak
Yeah no way Oilers touch that deal, Gagner and 7th are above anything toronto offers in that package, plus we dont need another shut down d prospect we have enough, thanks but no thanks

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Old
07-13-2011, 10:51 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Who would trade an established top-4 defenseman for Gagner?

I'm not necessarily saying that Edmonton should do this deal -- but I don't think you're getting an established top-4 defenseman for a player whose production has essentially flatlined for 4 straight seasons (his PPG slightly increased between the 08-09 season and the 09-10 season; but, it'd only extrapolate to an extra 5 points or so over an 82 game schedule). He's young, yes, but at this point, being young isn't going to increase his value to the level that some think it could.

In Gagner, you have a relatively one-dimensional, somewhat injury prone ~45 point player that gets spoonfed top-ice time on an awful team. Above-average offensive skills, and his age/contract, is what makes him an attractive piece in a trade. I don't think he is valuable enough to garner a legitimate top-4 defenseman, though; which is why I think Edmonton is better off keeping him, given their center depth.
This.

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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
We can agree on that, then. Don't see how this deal helps Edmonton.
And this deal help Edmonton. That give them a solid young number 4 defenseman that can be more in the future for their awful defense.

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Old
07-13-2011, 10:52 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Blayzer View Post
Yeah well you have not seen him play. Coming from a team who thinks Omark is...anything.
Omark is the raw rookie RW who helped 21 year old Gagner score 42 points in 68 games. If he is nothing, then what is your opinion on Vanek who was the right winger who helped 30 year old Connolly score 42 points in 68 games?

If Omark is nothing, then what is Connolly?

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07-13-2011, 10:56 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
And this deal help Edmonton. That give them a solid young number 4 defenseman that can be more in the future for their awful defense.
Gunner doesn't improve Edmonton's defense. It gives them another bottom pairing defensemen.

Edmonton would probably claim him on waivers but beyond that I don't see much interest.

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07-13-2011, 11:08 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
Omark is the raw rookie RW who helped 21 year old Gagner score 42 points in 68 games. If he is nothing, then what is your opinion on Vanek who was the right winger who helped 30 year old Connolly score 42 points in 68 games?

If Omark is nothing, then what is Connolly?
Please don't compare Omark to Vanek.

Vanek >>>>>> Omark
Connolly (when healthy) >>> Gagner

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:13 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
And this deal help Edmonton. That give them a solid young number 4 defenseman that can be more in the future for their awful defense.
I wouldn't necessarily say so -- it fills a hole, and creates another hole. The Oilers have a pretty solid future on 'D; frankly, I don't see Gagner being traded, as the Oilers wouldn't be able to acquire the pieces they would need to get back in dealing Gagner. He has more value to the Oilers than he does in a trade.

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07-13-2011, 11:13 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
Omark is the raw rookie RW who helped 21 year old Gagner score 42 points in 68 games. If he is nothing, then what is your opinion on Vanek who was the right winger who helped 30 year old Connolly score 42 points in 68 games?

If Omark is nothing, then what is Connolly?

This argument is wrong on so many levels

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:15 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Please don't compare Omark to Vanek.

Vanek >>>>>> Omark
Connolly (when healthy) >>> Gagner
If you have to put (when healthy) then no, he isn't more valuable.

No one in the league would rather have Connolly over Gagner. Some TML fans will say they would, but they're lying to themselves.

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07-13-2011, 11:15 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I wouldn't necessarily say so -- it fills a hole, and creates another hole. The Pilers have a pretty solid future on 'D; frankly, I don't see Gagner being traded, as the Oilers wouldn't be able to acquire the pieces they would need to get back in dealing Gagner. He has more value to the Oilers than he does in a trade.
This guy gets it, good post

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:16 AM
  #35
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No thanks from Oilers perspective. If we were to move Gagner it would be because we need mopre size down the middle - bringing in Bozak would be completely pointless on our roster. Gagner for Gunarsson isn't very fair for the Oilers so we pass.

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:21 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
If you have to put (when healthy) then no, he isn't more valuable.

No one in the league would rather have Connolly over Gagner. Some TML fans will say they would, but they're lying to themselves.
Obviously age and salary have something to do with that. All things being equal, Connolly is clearly the better player right now though.

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:23 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
If you have to put (when healthy) then no, he isn't more valuable.

No one in the league would rather have Connolly over Gagner. Some TML fans will say they would, but they're lying to themselves.
I would rather have neither

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:24 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
If you have to put (when healthy) then no, he isn't more valuable.

No one in the league would rather have Connolly over Gagner. Some TML fans will say they would, but they're lying to themselves.

Most people would take Gagner because of the age.

It would come down to Gagner's potential to become more than a 40-45 point top 6 forward vs Connolly's potential to stay healthy.

I don't think either one of those are safe bets

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
Omark is the raw rookie RW who helped 21 year old Gagner score 42 points in 68 games. If he is nothing, then what is your opinion on Vanek who was the right winger who helped 30 year old Connolly score 42 points in 68 games?

If Omark is nothing, then what is Connolly?

What the hell are you trying to prove here???
Comparing players by how many points their linemates scored.
Then you should be comparing Omark with Vanek, not Connolly.
Omark scored 5 goals in 51 games!

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:29 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by GreasyGrinder View Post
Haha. Classic.

Even if I never watched him play we're talking about a 5th defender in terms of TOI/game on the worst defensive team in the league. What a beast.

I wouldn't throw rocks. You are not going to win that war.
YOu apparently don't know how to read numbers along with never seeing some players play games. The worst defensive team in the league was Colorado. Even you were worse than the Leafs.


And Gunnarsson had about 5 minutes a night more than the the 5th defender (making him the dman with 4th spot minutes, you know, if you couldn't figure that one out). Thanks for trying out but you getting cut from the elementary reading team.

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:32 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by GreasyGrinder View Post
Gunner doesn't improve Edmonton's defense. It gives them another bottom pairing defensemen.
He would be easily on the 2nd pairing.

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07-13-2011, 11:32 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Obviously age and salary have something to do with that. All things being equal, Connolly is clearly the better player right now though.
Their point totals since Gagners rookie season are fairly close.

Connollys stock has fallen quite a bit with his injuries.

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07-13-2011, 11:33 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Obviously age and salary have something to do with that. All things being equal, Connolly is clearly the better player right now though.
30 year old scores 42 pts in 68 games playing with Vanek is clearly better than 21 year old scoring 42 pts in 68 games playing with Omark ??

Connolly scored 23 ES points playing with Vanek, Gagner scored 32 ES pts playing with Omark. Connolly matched Gagner's total scoring only because he happened to be on a team with a much better pp.

You Leaf fans should huddle up and figure out which way you are going to argue this.

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07-13-2011, 11:35 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
He would be easily on the 2nd pairing.
Pardon?

Hes playing over which 2 of the following 4?
Whitney
Barker
Gilbert
Smid

Easily? Thanks for showing your bias.

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07-13-2011, 11:36 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by QMJHLfollower View Post
He would be easily on the 2nd pairing.
Yeah I dont know about that, he would have a shot but easily is a little much. I'm not sure he could crack the Oiler top 4.

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07-13-2011, 11:37 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Pardon?

Hes playing over which 2 of the following 4?
Whitney
Barker
Gilbert
Smid

Easily? Thanks for showing your bias.
Gunnarsson is definitely better than Barker; I can't stress enough how horrendous of a defenseman Barker is.

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:38 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Pardon?

Hes playing over which 2 of the following 4?
Whitney
Barker
Gilbert
Smid

Easily? Thanks for showing your bias.
Is Cam Barker really your second best D-man???

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:39 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Their point totals since Gagners rookie season are fairly close.

Connollys stock has fallen quite a bit with his injuries.
Their point totals haven't been close, outside of last year. On a PPG basis, Connolly is well above Gagner, as he should be considering his age and experience.

This is no slight on Gagner. It's unrealistic to expect a young player to be as effective as a veteran like Connolly through his first few seasons in the NHL. You can opine that Gagner will improve in the years to come, which may very well happen, but based on past performance I don't see how you can argue that he is already a better player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
30 year old scores 42 pts in 68 games playing with Vanek is clearly better than 21 year old scoring 42 pts in 68 games playing with Omark ??

Connolly scored 23 ES points playing with Vanek, Gagner scored 32 ES pts playing with Omark. Connolly matched Gagner's total scoring only because he happened to be on a team with a much better pp.

You Leaf fans should huddle up and figure out which way you are going to argue this.
Well, you can come to a lot of incorrect conclusions based on one year of play. I tend to take a slightly longer view when evaluating players. For example, I'd probably say that Connolly is superior to Grabovski right now, although that would be extremely close. Reasons for saying that would include his PK ability (which Toronto needs desperately), his past performance as a near PPG centre, and the likelihood that last year was an off year. If both of them duplicate what they did last season this year, Grabovski will clearly be ahead though, and due for a big pay raise.

Similarly, if Gagner has a solid 50+ point season and Connolly disappoints, it starts to be a pretty easy choice.


Last edited by grabo84: 07-13-2011 at 11:45 AM.
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Old
07-13-2011, 11:41 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Gunnarsson is definitely better than Barker; I can't stress enough how horrendous of a defenseman Barker is.
Better than Minnesota Barker? Agreed.
Better than Chicago Barker? Not even close.


Problem is, we as Oiler fans have no idea which Barker we're getting.

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Old
07-13-2011, 11:41 AM
  #50
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As it stands, Connolly is a better player than Gagner.

He'll put up [slightly] better offensive numbers, but the major difference is that Connolly is an excellent penalty killer. He is a more versatile player than Gagner.

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