HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

tor-edm

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-13-2011, 11:43 AM
  #51
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Their point totals haven't been close, outside of last year. On a PPG basis, Connolly is well above Gagner, as he should be considering his age and experience.

This is no slight on Gagner. It's unrealistic to expect a young player to be as effective as a veteran like Connolly through his first few seasons in the NHL. You can opine that Gagner will improve in the years to come, which may very well happen, but based on past performance I don't see how you can argue that he is already a better player.
Their point totals since Gagner came into the league are similar.

If you take into account Connolly missed a ton of games and want to rank them on a per game basis, then thats different. But going just off of point totals, they're very close.

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:44 AM
  #52
JeffMangum
I'm v
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,057
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Better than Minnesota Barker? Agreed.
Better than Chicago Barker? Not even close.


Problem is, we as Oiler fans have no idea which Barker we're getting.
Barker was sheltered in Chicago; if he's playing top-4 minutes...make sure you contact hair club for men prior to each game, becuase you'll more than likely tear your hair out from watching Barker try and play defense. He's got a good slapshot, and slightly above-average offensive instincts, but otherwise, he's a trainwreck in the other two zones. He was never a reliable defensive player at the NHL level.

Gunnarsson is being a bit underrated here; I don't think this deal works for Edmonton from a needs standpoint, but I do think Gunnarsson could certainly help the team.

__________________
Soon.
JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:45 AM
  #53
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rymistri View Post
Is Cam Barker really your second best D-man???
Not sure. We'll see how he plays this year. Defense is clearly our weak point though.


You do understand that's the same as me asking "Is Kulemin REALLY your second best forward???"

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:46 AM
  #54
JeffMangum
I'm v
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,057
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Not sure. We'll see how he plays this year. Defense is clearly our weak point though.


You do understand that's the same as me asking "Is Kulemin REALLY your second best forward???"
I'd say there's a pretty drastic difference between those statements. Kulemin was a 30 goal scorer last season. Cam Barker was bought out.

JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:47 AM
  #55
agropop
Registered User
 
agropop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Windsor
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,452
vCash: 500
Kulemin IS our best forward.

agropop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:47 AM
  #56
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Not sure. We'll see how he plays this year. Defense is clearly our weak point though.


You do understand that's the same as me asking "Is Kulemin REALLY your second best forward???"
Okay, but there's no need to be defensive. Kulemin didn't get bought out by a non-playoff team prior to FA. Barring a miraculous turnaround, he doesn't deserve a spot in anybody's top four.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Their point totals since Gagner came into the league are similar.

If you take into account Connolly missed a ton of games and want to rank them on a per game basis, then thats different. But going just off of point totals, they're very close.
Well, why wouldn't you? Connolly also has a 65 point season two years ago, which is a big step up from the 40-50 range.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:49 AM
  #57
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Barker was sheltered in Chicago; if he's playing top-4 minutes...make sure you contact hair club for men prior to each game, becuase you'll more than likely tear your hair out from watching Barker try and play defense. He's got a good slapshot, and slightly above-average offensive instincts, but otherwise, he's a trainwreck in the other two zones. He was never a reliable defensive player at the NHL level.

Gunnarsson is being a bit underrated here; I don't think this deal works for Edmonton from a needs standpoint, but I do think Gunnarsson could certainly help the team.
There is a ton of defensemen who would help the Oilers. Our defense is terrible. Is Gunnarsson worth Gagner though? No. At least I don't think so.

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:50 AM
  #58
Rymistri
Registered User
 
Rymistri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 276
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Not sure. We'll see how he plays this year. Defense is clearly our weak point though.


You do understand that's the same as me asking "Is Kulemin REALLY your second best forward???"
Not really. There was a list of 4 D-men. Barker was second on the list. I asked if he was your second best defensemen.

I thought it was pretty self explanatory

Rymistri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:50 AM
  #59
My name is Legion
Watch it Burn...
 
My name is Legion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 330
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rymistri View Post
Is Cam Barker really your second best D-man???
No, but Oiler fans are hoping for a huge bounce back from him. If Gunner was to crack the top 4 it would be under Whitney, Gilbert, and Smid but with Pecham, Chorney, Petry, Sutton all competing for spots this year its not impossible Gunner could crack the top 4 but it would not be easy.

My name is Legion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:52 AM
  #60
JeffMangum
I'm v
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,057
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
There is a ton of defensemen who would help the Oilers. Our defense is terrible. Is Gunnarsson worth Gagner though? No. At least I don't think so.
I'm not going to comment on value, but I will agree to the opinion that Gagner for Gunnarsson doesn't work for Edmonton; value is irrelevant in that situation.

JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 11:52 AM
  #61
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
It doesn't change the fact that having Kulemin as your 2nd (or first) best forward shows towards a very weak forward crop. Just as the Oilers defensive crop is currently terrible.

Sure there is the fact that you guys have a good number of quality young forward prospects, but in the same note, Edmonton has some quality d prospects as well.

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:00 PM
  #62
Lottery Oilers*
Nuge is Cobra
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
And Gunnarsson had about 5 minutes a night more than the the 5th defender (making him the dman with 4th spot minutes, you know, if you couldn't figure that one out). Thanks for trying out but you getting cut from the elementary reading team.
Gunnarsson ranked 144th in the league in terms of defensemsen TOI/game on the club that finished in the bottom 10.

He's a bottom pairing defensmen.

Do. Not. Want.

Lottery Oilers* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:02 PM
  #63
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreasyGrinder View Post
Gunnarsson ranked 144th in the league in terms of defensemsen TOI/game on the club that finished in the bottom 10.

He's a bottom pairing defensmen.

Do. Not. Want.
well at least you guys don't pretend you've seen him play i guess

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:04 PM
  #64
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
well at least you guys don't pretend you've seen him play i guess
Oh, the good old "You haven't seen him play! They don't televise Leaf games outside of Toronto!"

Vezna..... who else would come in with a quality post like this?


I have seen him play. Most of us have. Torontos D as a whole underperformed for the majority of last season. Gunner included.

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:06 PM
  #65
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Pardon?

Hes playing over which 2 of the following 4?
Whitney
Barker
Gilbert
Smid

Easily? Thanks for showing your bias.
whitney is the only dman better than gunnar in that list

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:07 PM
  #66
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
whitney is the only dman better than gunnar in that list
I'd put Gilbert and Smid over him without thinking.

"Thanks for pretending you've watched them......" nevermind, I refuse to write garbage like that.

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:11 PM
  #67
theIceWookie
#LeafHysteriaAlert
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Their point totals since Gagner came into the league are similar.

If you take into account Connolly missed a ton of games and want to rank them on a per game basis, then thats different. But going just off of point totals, they're very close.
If you take only last years point total. However looking at other years it becomes a little more obvious who the better player is.

Connolly had .89 PPG in 09-10 while assisting 48 times, consequently, one less assist than Gagner's career high in points. Gagner had a 0.6 PPG rate.

The year before Connolly had a .97 ppg while Gagner had 0.53 PPG. The year before that 07-08, Connolly had 0.83 PPG in 48 games. Gagner had 0.62 PPG in that year (his rookie year).

Want to make the argument that Gagner could grow further into a similar player? Fine, but the two are not on the same level right now. In fact this past season looks like an anomaly for Connolly, not the norm, where it was just the norm for Gagner.

theIceWookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:13 PM
  #68
zeus3007*
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 13,227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
whitney is the only dman better than gunnar in that list
Every one of those d-men is better than Gunnar. Maybe not Barker, we'll see what he brings this year. We don't need Gunnarson. He is a bottom pairing d-man. Even if he would be Edmonton's 4th best d-man, the 4th best d-man on arguably the worst defense in the league means you are a bottom pairing d-man on most teams.

zeus3007* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:13 PM
  #69
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
If you take only last years point total. However looking at other years it becomes a little more obvious who the better player is.

Connolly had .89 PPG in 09-10 while assisting 48 times, consequently, one less assist than Gagner's career high in points. Gagner had a 0.6 PPG rate.

The year before Connolly had a .97 ppg while Gagner had 0.53 PPG. The year before that 07-08, Connolly had 0.83 PPG in 48 games. Gagner had 0.62 PPG in that year (his rookie year).

Want to make the argument that Gagner could grow further into a similar player? Fine, but the two are not on the same level right now. In fact this past season looks like an anomaly for Connolly, not the norm, where it was just the norm for Gagner.
You should read the post next time. I clearly stated that if you look at just point totals and not per game totals, their stats were very close.

To call a season from Connolly a .97ppg without mentioning he hardly touched the ice due to injury is a little misleading if you ask me.

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:13 PM
  #70
theIceWookie
#LeafHysteriaAlert
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Not sure. We'll see how he plays this year. Defense is clearly our weak point though.


You do understand that's the same as me asking "Is Kulemin REALLY your second best forward???"
Not really, not at all. Barker just had a ridiculous bad season and was signed hoping he could be better. Kulemin has only progressed and just put up 30 goals. Which was higher than your best forward by 8. So in conclusion, no its not at all like saying that.

theIceWookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:14 PM
  #71
vezna*
Canada's Team
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
If you take only last years point total. However looking at other years it becomes a little more obvious who the better player is.

Connolly had .89 PPG in 09-10 while assisting 48 times, consequently, one less assist than Gagner's career high in points. Gagner had a 0.6 PPG rate.

The year before Connolly had a .97 ppg while Gagner had 0.53 PPG. The year before that 07-08, Connolly had 0.83 PPG in 48 games. Gagner had 0.62 PPG in that year (his rookie year).

Want to make the argument that Gagner could grow further into a similar player? Fine, but the two are not on the same level right now. In fact this past season looks like an anomaly for Connolly, not the norm, where it was just the norm for Gagner.
why are you even wasting your time arguing with him? i'd take lombardi over gagner. there's no spot for gagner in our team. he's not a top 6 centre and he's too small to play in the bottom 6

vezna* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:15 PM
  #72
theIceWookie
#LeafHysteriaAlert
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
I'm not going to comment on value, but I will agree to the opinion that Gagner for Gunnarsson doesn't work for Edmonton; value is irrelevant in that situation.
It's irrelevant both ways. Toronto needs a top line center. Not a guy that has proven he's merely a B level second line center.

theIceWookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:17 PM
  #73
Cooperalls
Oiler Fan!!!
 
Cooperalls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 494
vCash: 500
This argument could go on forever, mainly because it's a terrible proposal. Doesn't work for either team at all.... imo.

Cooperalls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:17 PM
  #74
RStar*
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Red Deer
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,021
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Not really, not at all. Barker just had a ridiculous bad season and was signed hoping he could be better. Kulemin has only progressed and just put up 30 goals. Which was higher than your best forward by 8. So in conclusion, no its not at all like saying that.
Well seeing as how all the other Toronto fans in here are brining it up, you do understand that going by a PPG pace Kuli is not better than our best forward correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
why are you even wasting your time arguing with him? i'd take lombardi over gagner. there's no spot for gagner in our team. he's not a top 6 centre and he's too small to play in the bottom 6
Lombardi over Gagner?

Keeping up that solid high quality posting level I see.

RStar* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-13-2011, 12:22 PM
  #75
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
I'd put Gilbert and Smid over him without thinking.

"Thanks for pretending you've watched them......" nevermind, I refuse to write garbage like that.
Well, there's your problem.

Anyways, jokes aside, this is really beyond pointless. All you have to say is you don't think the Oilers would want to pay the price Toronto would want for Gunnarsson. You can afford to let some younger players get a shot or take a risk on Barker. We can't, and we need Gunnarsson to stabilize the blueline and keep some continuity.

As far as Connolly goes, I've seen him play many, many times over the past few years. Like I said last page, Gagner may very well be better in a couple of years, but we need Connolly contributing now. I don't think, for next season only, Gagner is an improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RStar View Post
Well seeing as how all the other Toronto fans in here are brining it up, you do understand that going by a PPG pace Kuli is not better than our best forward correct?
Who, Hemsky? No, of course he isn't. Maybe he will be in a few years, but not right now.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.