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Old
02-04-2012, 10:54 PM
  #1
KingJet*
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Get Guy Carbonneau as head Coach

I think he'd be a good fit in Columbus, did well in Montreal and I think he'd do well for Columbus

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02-04-2012, 11:17 PM
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Does he speak French?

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02-04-2012, 11:34 PM
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Does he speak French?
Yes! But not English..........

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02-05-2012, 01:57 AM
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This will never happen.

Unfortunately, what JMAC Jr does not seem to realize is that it is not just a simple question of what he thinks about Scott Howson. The bigger question is, what does the league and the hockey world think of him.

Neither Carbonneau, nor any established NHL head coach, would ever think of coming here so long as Howson stays. If things don't go well, and given Howsie's track record....well, things might not go well......There are 2 possible outcomes:

1. Howson throws the new coach under the bus, just like he did Hitch and Arneil.
2. Ownership finally wises up and fires Howson, creating organizational upheaval and a new GM is (finally) brought in. Most coaches do not survive long under a new GM.

The team will not be able to be upgraded tremendously well in the coming months, as top FA's will not come here for the above reasons. Also Howson will be trading consistently from a position of need, a position of weakness. He might get some things done, but he will not maximize return for our assets. We will get a top Russian rookie in the draft, however.

So....what kind of a coach could we get?

1. A broken down, often fired and maligned coach with experience
2. A second-tier rookie HC (coming from the AHL)

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02-05-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St1ngr View Post
This will never happen.

Unfortunately, what JMAC Jr does not seem to realize is that it is not just a simple question of what he thinks about Scott Howson. The bigger question is, what does the league and the hockey world think of him.

Neither Carbonneau, nor any established NHL head coach, would ever think of coming here so long as Howson stays. If things don't go well, and given Howsie's track record....well, things might not go well......There are 2 possible outcomes:

1. Howson throws the new coach under the bus, just like he did Hitch and Arneil.
2. Ownership finally wises up and fires Howson, creating organizational upheaval and a new GM is (finally) brought in. Most coaches do not survive long under a new GM.

The team will not be able to be upgraded tremendously well in the coming months, as top FA's will not come here for the above reasons. Also Howson will be trading consistently from a position of need, a position of weakness. He might get some things done, but he will not maximize return for our assets. We will get a top Russian rookie in the draft, however.

So....what kind of a coach could we get?

1. A broken down, often fired and maligned coach with experience
2. A second-tier rookie HC (coming from the AHL)
I have no idea whether or not I would want Carbonneau to coach this team, because the Blue Jackets haven't defined their vision, which means it's impossible to determine who the correct candidates would be.

I completely disagree that no "established" head coach "would ever think of coming here" and using Guy Carbonneau as an example, notice Carbonneau has been in Juniors for the past three years since he was fired by the Habs. There are only 30 NHL head coaching jobs. Any "established" head coach who desperately wants to get back to the NHL will consider all available jobs, including this one.

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02-05-2012, 09:49 AM
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I can see, however, many top talents interested in the GM job if Howson ever gets fired. It's seems it's almost impossible to get canned from that job no matter how incompetent you are.

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02-05-2012, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
I have no idea whether or not I would want Carbonneau to coach this team, because the Blue Jackets haven't defined their vision, which means it's impossible to determine who the correct candidates would be.

I completely disagree that no "established" head coach "would ever think of coming here" and using Guy Carbonneau as an example, notice Carbonneau has been in Juniors for the past three years since he was fired by the Habs. There are only 30 NHL head coaching jobs. Any "established" head coach who desperately wants to get back to the NHL will consider all available jobs, including this one.
Any coach with any other options would never come here to coach under Howson. See Boucher, Guy.

Scott Howson is the laughing stock of this league. No credible coach will coach under him for the reasons I mentioned.

As you stated, there are only 30 NHL jobs, so I agree with you there will always be plenty of candidates. However I'm talking about top candidates, top coaching prospects or established winning NHL coaches. For example, I don't think if Dineen was currently interviewing that he would take the CBJ job.

I admit I don't know much about Carbonneau. I don't know how hard he has been trying to get back into the league. If he really wanted back in, I would think his best options would be to spend some time as an assistant at a top NHL team or go back to the AHL as opposed to coming here. Under Howson, he will just be the next poor sap thrown under the bus, or he will be in the un-enviable position of surviving a GM purge, soon to be sacked by the new GM who will want to bring in his own guy (no pun intended).

Now we get rid of Howson, and all this changes. I think we get rid of Howson, get Nail, unload some malcontents (i.e. Carter), get a real experienced NHL GM in place - and we'd have top coaching prospects knocking down the door!!!!

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02-05-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St1ngr View Post
Any coach with any other options would never come here to coach under Howson. See Boucher, Guy.

Scott Howson is the laughing stock of this league. No credible coach will coach under him for the reasons I mentioned.

As you stated, there are only 30 NHL jobs, so I agree with you there will always be plenty of candidates. However I'm talking about top candidates, top coaching prospects or established winning NHL coaches. For example, I don't think if Dineen was currently interviewing that he would take the CBJ job.

I admit I don't know much about Carbonneau. I don't know how hard he has been trying to get back into the league. If he really wanted back in, I would think his best options would be to spend some time as an assistant at a top NHL team or go back to the AHL as opposed to coming here. Under Howson, he will just be the next poor sap thrown under the bus, or he will be in the un-enviable position of surviving a GM purge, soon to be sacked by the new GM who will want to bring in his own guy (no pun intended).

Now we get rid of Howson, and all this changes. I think we get rid of Howson, get Nail, unload some malcontents (i.e. Carter), get a real experienced NHL GM in place - and we'd have top coaching prospects knocking down the door!!!!
First off, let me be really clear. I have wanted Howson replaced for several years, and started the original "Fire Howson" thread.

Just because I think he's the wrong guy, I'm also not going to take a woe is me, defeatist attitude and I'm not going to blame him for everything from the Hindenburg disaster, the Lindbergh kidnapping or the war in Afghanistan.

Point 1- You talk about "top coaching prospects or established winning NHL coaches." Please tell me who these are that are in the market today?

Hint- there aren't many established coaches unless you want MacT, Randy Carlisle, Davis Payne, Iron Mike, or Andy Murray. I would bet you any amount all of those guys would hop the next plane to Columbus for an interview, much less a job. Carbonneau is not a top candidate anywhere, not even Montreal and he's an ex-Hab player and coach and is fluent in French.

Point 2- Guy Boucher was faced with the choice of a Columbus franchise with little talent beyond Rick Nash and a barren pipeline or a Tampa team with: arguably the 2nd best forward in the NHL Steven Stamkos, All Stars Martin St. Louis and Vincent Lecavelier, a budding potential franchise defenseman in Victor Hedman and a pretty solid all around roster and an owner Jeffrey Vinik with and open checkbook. If the Tampa job wasn't open at exactly the same time, Columbus would have been stuck with that trapping, boring loser of a coach.

Point 3- Dineen has a job. He would have gladly taken the Columbus job. When he is out of a job again, I'm sure he would gladly take this one unless a team with a better roster also wants him.

Coaches desperately want ANY of the 30 NHL jobs if they don't have one. If they are lucky enough to have multiple offers, they then would probably choose the one that puts them in a position to win and win big. Hell, Tom Renney took an assistant coaching job in Edmonton and then got promoted when Pat Quin was fired a few years ago. Trust me, Edmonton is a bigger freak show than even Columbus; it's on a par with the Islanders or what the Thrashers were in Atlanta.

The reasons to get rid of Howson? There are many to list. Attracting a decent coach is not one of them.

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02-06-2012, 01:09 AM
  #9
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If Carbonneau got an offer from any teams to become head coach he will accept it.

The real question those a team really want him? He always said that when a team need a new head coach he let them know that he is interested.

Is biggest problem, and all his ex-players said the same thing, it's the fact that he doesn't communicated enough with them. They where complaining that they didn't know what to do on the ice when he was their coach.

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02-06-2012, 06:35 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
The reasons to get rid of Howson? There are many to list. Attracting a decent coach is not one of them.
You're probably generally correct; I don't have as much experience with all the ex-coaches out there as you but do you think Peter Laviolette would have come to Columbus under Howson had the situation been possible? I was actually surprised when Hitchcock came here when MacLean was GM... Do you think Babcock or Ruff would come here under Howson if they would be fired? I dunno, I don't think many proven NHL coaches would jump to come here, not only because of Howson but Priest as well..., less successful or less experienced perhaps.

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02-06-2012, 08:28 AM
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OP did a great sell job. I'm convinced...

Err...

Honestly this is one of the least interesting conversations we can have, for now.

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02-06-2012, 08:31 AM
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I'm rapidly approaching the line of thinking of "The Blue Jackets are one of the few teams which haven't fired Mike Keenan yet... Why not?"

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02-06-2012, 09:00 AM
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No coach in the world could overcome a sub-standard NHL roster and a organizational management team that makes the Marx Brothers look like a competent group of guys.

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02-06-2012, 02:16 PM
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I'm rapidly approaching the line of thinking of "The Blue Jackets are one of the few teams which haven't fired Mike Keenan yet... Why not?"
Hire him as another front office advisor. That should solve the problem of folks kvetching about the lack of hockey experience in management.

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02-06-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
No coach in the world could overcome a sub-standard NHL roster and a organizational management team that makes the Marx Brothers look like a competent group of guys.
The closest I've seen in the 08/09 Jackets with any Rangers team that has made the playoffs a close second.

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02-06-2012, 03:04 PM
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The last three coaches Montreal hired-not including its most recent, Randy Cunneyworth-who were rookie NHL coaches in Montreal, all have done quite well elsewhere.

Alain Vigneault was in the SC finals last season with Vancouver and has had a nice run there.

Michel Therien went on to lead Pittsburgh to the SC finals one season.

Claude Julien went on to win the Stanley Cup last season with Boston.

Each of these three coaches were hired, in part, because they were bi-lingual despite not having prior NHL head coaching experience. Since each of these may have not been quite ready to coach in the NHL at the time of their appointments, the time in Montreal served as a valuable apprenticeship for them.

Carbonneau had two pretty good seasons (90 and 104 points) before his partial third year. He also won multiple Stanley Cups as a player and was a world class defensive forward....he understands team defense which is vital in today's NHL. Montreal was his first and only NHL head coaching job.

Montreal is the polar opposite of Columbus. The pressure to win and win now is unreal. Any former Montreal head coach would feel like he was on vacation in Columbus by comparison.

As a previous poster pointed out, there are 30 NHL head coaching jobs. There are very few coaches who really can pick and chose exactly where they would coach in the NHL.

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02-06-2012, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Hire him as another front office advisor. That should solve the problem of folks kvetching about the lack of hockey experience in management.
Right, since you think we shouldn't have any experience in the front office, of course you'd say that.

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02-06-2012, 04:36 PM
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Right, since you think we shouldn't have any experience in the front office, of course you'd say that.
Wow, I didn't realize I was that opposed to getting Howson any and good advice. I must be totally out of my mind. In other news, there's this thing between "black" and "white" called "gray."

For the record, I merely object to the use of "experience in the front office" as a euphemism for "fire everybody".

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02-06-2012, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
The last three coaches Montreal hired-not including its most recent, Randy Cunneyworth-who were rookie NHL coaches in Montreal, all have done quite well elsewhere.

Alain Vigneault was in the SC finals last season with Vancouver and has had a nice run there.

Michel Therien went on to lead Pittsburgh to the SC finals one season.

Claude Julien went on to win the Stanley Cup last season with Boston.

Each of these three coaches were hired, in part, because they were bi-lingual despite not having prior NHL head coaching experience. Since each of these may have not been quite ready to coach in the NHL at the time of their appointments, the time in Montreal served as a valuable apprenticeship for them.

Carbonneau had two pretty good seasons (90 and 104 points) before his partial third year. He also won multiple Stanley Cups as a player and was a world class defensive forward....he understands team defense which is vital in today's NHL. Montreal was his first and only NHL head coaching job.

Montreal is the polar opposite of Columbus. The pressure to win and win now is unreal. Any former Montreal head coach would feel like he was on vacation in Columbus by comparison.

As a previous poster pointed out, there are 30 NHL head coaching jobs. There are very few coaches who really can pick and chose exactly where they would coach in the NHL.
Why you don't take Therrien instead of Carbonneau? Don't forget that Carbo was his assistant coach in Montreal for one year. Look what he did with the Penguins, they where going no where when he became the coach and Crosby was in his rookie season. After 3 years he bring his team to the Stanley cup final.

At the next draft the Columbus will draft probably the first overall player. It's kind of a similar situation, but I perfectly know that it's not the same thing.

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02-06-2012, 08:44 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
You're probably generally correct; I don't have as much experience with all the ex-coaches out there as you but do you think Peter Laviolette would have come to Columbus under Howson had the situation been possible? I was actually surprised when Hitchcock came here when MacLean was GM... Do you think Babcock or Ruff would come here under Howson if they would be fired? I dunno, I don't think many proven NHL coaches would jump to come here, not only because of Howson but Priest as well..., less successful or less experienced perhaps.
Hitchcock is a perfect example. Coaches who want to coach take the best available job. I doubt Hitchcock would not have taken Columbus's offer if Detroit had offered him at the same time. since there are usually few jobs available and it's rarely Cup contenders, any team can get a good coach if they make a good decision.

This is splitting hairs. Ruff is mediocre at best and Babcock is a very select case.

Neither, but for different reasons: Ruff is very a close friend of Doug MacLean's. Ruff was an assistant under MacLean and regularly hosts him in Buffalo.

Babcock isn't likely to coach anywhere unless they are a Cup contender, if he even wants to coach anywhere else at all. If Columbus becomes one by the time Babcock gets fired, then yes.

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02-06-2012, 09:51 PM
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I would just add, if Howson throws coaches under buses, it takes him a long time to do it. Under SH, the coach's seat is rarely hot.

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