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Old
07-16-2011, 04:33 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KallioWeHardlyKnewYe View Post
This Johansen nonsense has gotten beyond silly. Shouting down EDM fans obviously isn't working. Maybe time to avoid the convo altogether?

Or do we think we're just one more thread from winning them over to our side?

Silver lining -- I'm at least pleased that other teams are all hot-and-bothered for a CBJ property. Certainly better than the alternative.
Amen.
All the back and forth makes the board unreadable.

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07-16-2011, 04:40 PM
  #252
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I agree w/ Kalio..the Johan love is just over the top

Many said at prospect camp Atkinson was a terror and he is still considered a long shot, while Johan was just very good & he is "the one". Shows how much size is considered a factor.

I know that there are other intangibles, speed, skating, hockey knowledge, puck handling, shot selection etc., but physicality and size is considered the factor that cannot be taught.

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07-16-2011, 05:41 PM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
So we complain about Oiler fans over-valuing Hemsky (an accurate assessment judging by a click glance at the trade board), and, in the same thread, promptly proceed to overvaluing Johansen at Hemsky-like levels? Not sure I follow...

Johansen wouldn't have gotten Carter straight up. And are we honestly suggesting that Johansen is better than Hall?
After reading the 5 page thread about Johansen on the mains, and then this 11 page behemoth, I think Sammy is on the money here.


The hype you guys are giving Johansen is worse than calling Filatov 'the next Ovechkin' like everyone here did 3 years ago.

You guys will never learn. Prospects are UNPREDICTABLE.

I'm not saying trade him for Hemsky, but god damn it, RyJo is not the 2nd coming of Mario Lemieux or Wayne Gretzky.

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07-16-2011, 06:53 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
After reading the 5 page thread about Johansen on the mains, and then this 11 page behemoth, I think Sammy is on the money here.


The hype you guys are giving Johansen is worse than calling Filatov 'the next Ovechkin' like everyone here did 3 years ago.

You guys will never learn. Prospects are UNPREDICTABLE.

I'm not saying trade him for Hemsky, but god damn it, RyJo is not the 2nd coming of Mario Lemieux or Wayne Gretzky.
Prospects are certainly unpredictable, granted, but we have never established a path for a #1 prospect to mature and reach his potential in the NHL. I for one, think that anyone is trade bait for the proper return, but unless it is significantly in our favor count me as one that would rather hang on to Johansen

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07-16-2011, 07:01 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
I'm not saying trade him for Hemsky, but god damn it, RyJo is not the 2nd coming of Mario Lemieux or Wayne Gretzky.
Of course he isn't, he's the 1st coming of RyJo.

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07-16-2011, 07:14 PM
  #256
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I was looking beyond this year and was happy to see that in 2012-2013 we have the strong possibility of seeing John Moore, Ryan Johansen, David Savard, Cam Atkinson, Thomas Kubalik and Maxim Maorov all vying for legitimate spots. I am sure that all of them will not be ready, or will be traded, but it is nice to know we have some good low priced talent in the pipes percolating to the parent club.

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07-16-2011, 07:23 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
After reading the 5 page thread about Johansen on the mains, and then this 11 page behemoth, I think Sammy is on the money here.

The hype you guys are giving Johansen is worse than calling Filatov 'the next Ovechkin' like everyone here did 3 years ago.
Everyone calling Filatov the next AO. What an f'ing joke. What is everyone about 4 people now?

The concept of one year left on a contract is lost on you and Samkow isn't it? That new contract on top of injury history devalues Hemsky. You would be hesitant to give him full market and he's camp will be hesitant to take anything less than full market. Which means he's probably going to FA, unless someone blinks (outstanding healthy year or another injury year.

The fact that Johansen is a center also increases his value.

I'm, personally, not valuing Johansen at anything. What I am doing is telling you what it appears Howson and the org is valuing Johansen at.

There is a lot that goes into evaluating the value of a prospect.

Quote:
You guys will never learn. Prospects are UNPREDICTABLE.
No @#$@#%@ Sherlock. Most people around here have an IQ above 10.

Quote:
I'm not saying trade him for Hemsky, but god damn it, RyJo is not the 2nd coming of Mario Lemieux or Wayne Gretzky.
Probably not. But he could very well be the next <insert elite top line big two way center name here>. However, thanks for picking two of the top players to ever play the game and compare it to trading a prospect for Hemsky. Bravo.

Come on TW, get off the hyperbole train and try and grasp what some are saying. If you are going to paint in such insulting broad strokes, at least quote what you are talking about and single out those responsible. While you are at it, don't lump a bunch of people in that group because it's rarely as many as people like you seem to think it is.

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07-16-2011, 07:30 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
The concept of one year left on a contract is lost on you and Samkow isn't it? That new contract on top of injury history devalues Hemsky. You would be hesitant to give him full market and he's camp will be hesitant to take anything less than full market. Which means he's probably going to FA, unless someone blinks (outstanding healthy year or another injury year.
What exactly does this have to do with me saying that both sides are overrating their respective pieces?

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07-16-2011, 08:00 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Everyone calling Filatov the next AO. What an f'ing joke. What is everyone about 4 people now?

The concept of one year left on a contract is lost on you and Samkow isn't it? That new contract on top of injury history devalues Hemsky. You would be hesitant to give him full market and he's camp will be hesitant to take anything less than full market. Which means he's probably going to FA, unless someone blinks (outstanding healthy year or another injury year.

The fact that Johansen is a center also increases his value.

I'm, personally, not valuing Johansen at anything. What I am doing is telling you what it appears Howson and the org is valuing Johansen at.

There is a lot that goes into evaluating the value of a prospect.



No @#$@#%@ Sherlock. Most people around here have an IQ above 10.



Probably not. But he could very well be the next <insert elite top line big two way center name here>. However, thanks for picking two of the top players to ever play the game and compare it to trading a prospect for Hemsky. Bravo.

Come on TW, get off the hyperbole train and try and grasp what some are saying. If you are going to paint in such insulting broad strokes, at least quote what you are talking about and single out those responsible. While you are at it, don't lump a bunch of people in that group because it's rarely as many as people like you seem to think it is.
hemsky and schenn for johanschenn not signed yet ?

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Old
07-16-2011, 08:11 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
What exactly does this have to do with me saying that both sides are overrating their respective pieces?
Meh, I failed to read (beyond the first few words) in my annoyance at TW's post. My apologies, sort of. It does speak directly to one person on "my side" and how I came to "over valuing" Johansen. Having said that, maybe you'll read my post(s) and understand that my (and others) stance on Johansen isn't due to some personal over valuing of Johansen.


Last edited by blahblah: 07-16-2011 at 08:18 PM.
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Old
07-16-2011, 08:42 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
You guys will never learn. Prospects are UNPREDICTABLE.

I'm not saying trade him for Hemsky, but god damn it, RyJo is not the 2nd coming of Mario Lemieux or Wayne Gretzky.



So, that's your prediction of the unpredictable?

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Old
07-17-2011, 07:24 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
[/B]

So, that's your prediction of the unpredictable?
"Unpredictable" only means "could be worse than we think/hope", never "better".

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Old
07-17-2011, 11:36 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
"Unpredictable" only means "could be worse than we think/hope", never "better".
This is still the Columbus Bluejackets, right?


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07-17-2011, 12:22 PM
  #264
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My .02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless Winter View Post
After reading the 5 page thread about Johansen on the mains, and then this 11 page behemoth, I think Sammy is on the money here.


The hype you guys are giving Johansen is worse than calling Filatov 'the next Ovechkin' like everyone here did 3 years ago.

You guys will never learn. Prospects are UNPREDICTABLE.

I'm not saying trade him for Hemsky, but god damn it, RyJo is not the 2nd coming of Mario Lemieux or Wayne Gretzky.
Agree wholeheartedly, and if the trade were for Bobby Ryan from Anaheim, healthy/ young/ great right wing.. I say make the trade & sign dood long term

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07-17-2011, 12:52 PM
  #265
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I will never, ever, ever understand this "trade him before he busts" mentality.

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07-17-2011, 01:53 PM
  #266
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Agreed..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I will never, ever, ever understand this "trade him before he busts" mentality.
I wasn't saying trade before he busts, only that if you have a current need that can be filled by trading that valued prospect, sometimes it makes sense to do so. I am hoping that we didn't make the offseason moves that we did so that we remain middle of the pack.

Howson isn't stupid by any means, and I think to trade Johan he would want a large overpayment.

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07-17-2011, 02:01 PM
  #267
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I will never, ever, ever understand this "trade him before he busts" mentality.
You're a Blue Jackets fan, right???

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Old
07-17-2011, 03:30 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I will never, ever, ever understand this "trade him before he busts" mentality.
I agree with this comment.

Ryan Johansen doesn't only look to have all of the necessary tools, he also looks to have the right attitude and some tangibles that could make him a top-line center in the NHL very soon. I understand that we've all been duped by prospects before, but Johansen isn't the typical Blue Jacket first round prospect.

I get the impression this franchise is finally committed to letting their prospects develop before bringing them along, and with Johansen's skillset and charisma, there's absolutely no reason why we should trade this guy unless we're getting back a significant long-term investment. The argument has been made that Ales Hemsky has had a better points/game ratio than Jeff Carter ... but that doesn't mean squat if we're trading away a stud prospect like Johansen.

What else does Ales Hemsky do? If we weren't trading him in the Jeff Carter deal (a big center who can at least stay healthy), what makes everyone want to sell him up the river for what is honestly a lesser player? Just because Huselius is going to miss the first few months of the season?

EDIT: And I'm not against bringing Hemsky on board, I'm just against trading away one of the top 5 offensive prospects in the world for a player already well into his prime, having already seen the best he can do.

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07-17-2011, 04:43 PM
  #269
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From Howson's quote in the Dispatch I thought something

would happen relatively quickly, but we can a) stand pat, b) trade for a RW c) Sign a UFA or wait for other teams to buyout overpaid/ unwanted players

Wolski was mentioned as a potential buyout. Why would the Rangers do that, they aren't up against the cap ceiling? Edmonton fans have suggested a trade for Hemsky or Omark. Can anyone speculate on other potential targets?

UFA's: Samsonov, Prospal, Stillman, Zherdev..

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07-17-2011, 04:47 PM
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
would happen relatively quickly, but we can a) stand pat, b) trade for a RW c) Sign a UFA or wait for other teams to buyout overpaid/ unwanted players

Wolski was mentioned as a potential buyout. Why would the Rangers do that, they aren't up against the cap ceiling? Edmonton fans have suggested a trade for Hemsky or Omark. Can anyone speculate on other potential targets?

UFA's: Samsonov, Prospal, Stillman, Zherdev..
I saw this earlier, but since we're lousy with C's, why not trade Pahlson for Wolski? I feel like NY would like Sammy's style and it would give them some cap relief. It'd also give us a young W that could play here for a while if we like his play and we re-sign him. Maybe I'm wrong.

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07-17-2011, 05:02 PM
  #271
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx4lz...e_gdata_player
Id love to get him back as long as we see plays like that again

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07-17-2011, 05:45 PM
  #272
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I saw this earlier, but since we're lousy with C's, why not trade Pahlson for Wolski? I feel like NY would like Sammy's style and it would give them some cap relief. It'd also give us a young W that could play here for a while if we like his play and we re-sign him. Maybe I'm wrong.

Wolski is going to make $3.8 mil next year, the Rangers may buy him out. There is really no need to trade for him and pay him $3.8 mil, when he might be a UFA that could be signed for half that.

If the CBJ are going to address the top 6 via trade, I would start looking at Buffalo and Calgary if I were GMSH.

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07-17-2011, 08:07 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by ZachACA View Post
I saw this earlier, but since we're lousy with C's, why not trade Pahlson for Wolski? I feel like NY would like Sammy's style and it would give them some cap relief. It'd also give us a young W that could play here for a while if we like his play and we re-sign him. Maybe I'm wrong.
If you love Zherdev, you'll love Wolski, if you didn't love Z, well...

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07-17-2011, 08:46 PM
  #274
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If you love Zherdev, you'll love Wolski, if you didn't love Z, well...
/conversation on Wolski thread.

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Old
07-18-2011, 07:53 AM
  #275
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We need to hold on to Pahlsson until we find out if we're in the playoff race or not. If we're in it, we keep him, if we're not, thats when his value is highest

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