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HFStars 2011 Top-20 Prospects: [#6]

View Poll Results: Who is the Stars' #6 prospect?
Bachman 11 30.56%
Beskorowany 0 0%
Dillon 2 5.56%
Klingberg 1 2.78%
Nemeth 7 19.44%
Ritchie 2 5.56%
Roman 0 0%
Sceviour 0 0%
R. Smith 5 13.89%
Vincour 8 22.22%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-13-2011, 06:36 PM
  #1
piqued
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HFStars 2011 Top-20 Prospects: [#6]

  
pos.
country
acquired
change
% of vote
1
Jack Campbell
G
2010
0
48.7
2
Philip Larsen
D
2008
0
44.4
3
Scott Glennie
C
2009
0
50.0
4
Jamie Oleksiak
D
2011
new
45.0
5
Alex Chiasson
RW
2009
1
74.1

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Old
07-13-2011, 06:39 PM
  #2
piqued
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Bachman.

He was ranked 6th last year and has continued to do nothing but excel at every level. He'll be an NHLer in a year's time.

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07-13-2011, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Bachman.

He was ranked 6th last year and has continued to do nothing but excel at every level. He'll be an NHLer in a year's time.
Went with Bachman as well. I doubt hes ever an important piece of the Dallas Stars, but I dont doubt that hes capable of being a very solid starting NHL goalie. Hes put up great numbers at every level. Obviously he doesnt have ideal netminder size but his athleticism and smarts make up for that. Would love to see him win the backup job this season as I really dont know that he has much to learn in the AHL.

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07-13-2011, 07:00 PM
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I don't think Bachman has a future in Dallas.

I agree that he'll likely be Dallas' backup goaltender next season, but I think our best hope for him is that he can be Dallas' Halak. Regardless of his performance (just like Halak being an absolute stud in the playoffs for Montreal), I think Dallas will go bigger and younger with Beskorowany and Campbell eventually.

I'm not saying that this will be the right decision, but if you had to guess right now which of the 3 goalie prospects is least likely to stay when all 3 are NHL ready (assuming that happens), I think most would have Bachman as the odd man out eventually? Luckily, that issue is several years down the road.

That belief makes it difficult to get excited over him, but I know that's no reason to discount his obvious talent or overlook him.

The three guys with highest ceilings at this point seem to be Bachman, R. Smtih, and Klingberg. The two guys that are the safest and will likely be key role players in the NHL very soon are Nemeth and Vincour.

It's strange and awesome that Dallas' highly regarded 2nd round pick from this year may not have a legitimate place in Dallas' Top 10. I actually need some more time to think about the exact order (and my next vote), but I'm fairly certain I'm down to Bachman, Klingberg, Nemeth, R. Smith, and Vincour as 6 through 10.

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07-13-2011, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
Would love to see him win the backup job this season as I really dont know that he has much to learn in the AHL.
I disagree. The 40 or 50 games in the AHL next season will be good, but I think on paper (I know that's a bit risky to say ... but I'll chance it) Texas looks like a playoff team with a solid mix of veterans and talent. I believe they'll make the playoffs and last at least a couple rounds. I think a nice run in the AHL playoffs would do wonders for Bachman.

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07-13-2011, 08:15 PM
  #6
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Nemeth.

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07-13-2011, 08:24 PM
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Going with Bachman, he proved he can play and post solid numbers at every level so far. Also about his future with us, I think Bachman has more potential and will have a better career than Besko IMO. Although I'm not sure out of the 2 will be traded first or let go. It's going to be interesting to see how it turns out though. Looking forward to seeing how Bachs does next year in the AHL, if he could put up similar numbers and make a good run in the playoffs I personally see him being a Halak/Schnieder/Rask type goalie for us.

I'll be voting for Nemeth for the next poll, I think he should get the 7th spot. We could see him in the NHL in the 2012-2013 season.

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07-13-2011, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I don't think Bachman has a future in Dallas.

I agree that he'll likely be Dallas' backup goaltender next season, but I think our best hope for him is that he can be Dallas' Halak. Regardless of his performance (just like Halak being an absolute stud in the playoffs for Montreal), I think Dallas will go bigger and younger with Beskorowany and Campbell eventually.

I'm not saying that this will be the right decision, but if you had to guess right now which of the 3 goalie prospects is least likely to stay when all 3 are NHL ready (assuming that happens), I think most would have Bachman as the odd man out eventually? Luckily, that issue is several years down the road.
The thing about that though, is once someone wins the starter job it's very difficult to unseat them if things continue to go well.

With Halak and Price... Price established himself first, despite being younger. And he was the one who was ultimately kept.

Bachman may not have the all-important size attribute which is apparently the current golden ticket in this organization, but he does have a head start. Besko hasn't proven anything at the AHL level and Campbell hasn't proven anything at the OHL level. Even assuming both of those guys fulfill their potential and succeed in the NHL (which I doubt) Bachman still has a long-term chance if he gets the job first and his play is unimpeachable.

It's a little bit like the Quick/Bernier situation in LA. Bernier is, by all accounts, the more highly regarded prospect and goalie. But he's not going to be given the job as long as Quick performs the way he has.

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07-13-2011, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
The thing about that though, is once someone wins the starter job it's very difficult to unseat them if things continue to go well.

With Halak and Price... Price established himself first, despite being younger. And he was the one who was ultimately kept.

Bachman may not have the all-important size attribute which is apparently the current golden ticket in this organization, but he does have a head start. Besko hasn't proven anything at the AHL level and Campbell hasn't proven anything at the OHL level. Even assuming both of those guys fulfill their potential and succeed in the NHL (which I doubt) Bachman still has a long-term chance if he gets the job first and his play is unimpeachable.

It's a little bit like the Quick/Bernier situation in LA. Bernier is, by all accounts, the more highly regarded prospect and goalie. But he's not going to be given the job as long as Quick performs the way he has.
I agree there may be a window of opportunity for him. Thats why i want him to win the backup job this year. He could get 30 nhl games in and the stars could really evaluate him. Then the season after they can decide if it would be worth it to pay whatever Kari would be requesting or run with Bachman.

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07-13-2011, 09:31 PM
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I agree with all your points with the exception of one.

I never considered the angle that Price was established ... seems like a valid argument and Quick/Bernier are a solid example. Despite the fact I get the feeling most fans view the organization's statements that Campbell had a great second half and playoffs as lip service, I can't argue with that sentiment. The numbers speak for themselves (they look bad), but listening to games, watching highlights (obviously not ideal), and paying attention to people outside of the Dallas organization who actually are concerned with Windsor made me get the same impression that he really did improve a great deal late in the season. Still, he's proven squat, but so did Besko in the OHL. That leads me to my question/maybe concern is a better word.

This is NOT an argument for who will be better in the long-run. This is 100% a response to saying Besko hasn't proven anything at the AHL level which seems disingenuous.

I know 18 games isn't enough to prove yourself at the AHL level, and regardless of the qualifier (at the AHL), it seems like your discounting Beskorowany's accomplishments. I don't think that was even your intention, and I'm sure you'll point that out. I just want to point something else out .....

Besko turned pro at 20 (compared to 22 for Bachman), and he's putting up similar numbers in his first pro season as Bachman did.

He got screwed that Krahn returned to status quo and was injured last year. That blew his chance to play more games, but he still only played 5 games less than Bachman in his first season.

They're on the same path, posting similar numbers, and Besko is doing it at 20 instead of 22.

Like I said, I don't know who will be better between those 2 specifically, but Besko's development is clearly ahead of Bachman's considering age and numbers.

You obviously have to give the head-to-head nod at this present moment to Bachman because he's proven to be a top AHL starter.

IDK ... the issue or the confusion for me is ... when you say he has less AHL experience my immediate reaction is so what. Consider their age and stage of development. They're both professionals now, Besko is younger, and I don't really see it as being cut and dry that Bachman is miles ahead of Besko in terms of development. If anything, they're fairly close to one another ... again with the current nod to Bachman based only on the fact that he's older and that automatically gives him more experience.

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07-13-2011, 09:36 PM
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I guess that's my question ...

Does a gap exist, that I don't see, between Bachman and Beskorowany? I honestly see them in the same situation as Mike Smith and Dan Ellis. They were pretty much neck and neck coming up in the Dallas system.

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07-13-2011, 09:46 PM
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It's kind of funny ... to make sure I wasn't confusing the details of Ellis and Smith ...

Both went pro the same year, and Smith (coming out of the OHL, larger in size) is 2 years younger than Ellis (coming out of the NCAA, smaller in size).

Besko (coming out of the OHL, a giant) is 2 years younger than Bachman (coming out of the NCAA, fairly tiny by most standards). I understand the similarities basically end here. That extra year as a pro is clearly beneficial to Bachman in their battle for ice time.

I just didn't realize the 2 situations were honestly as close as I remembered.

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07-13-2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
It's kind of funny ... to make sure I wasn't confusing the details of Ellis and Smith ...

Both went pro the same year, and Smith (coming out of the OHL, larger in size) is 2 years younger than Ellis (coming out of the NCAA, smaller in size).

Besko (coming out of the OHL, a giant) is 2 years younger than Bachman (coming out of the NCAA, fairly tiny by most standards). I understand the similarities basically end here. That extra year as a pro is clearly beneficial to Bachman in their battle for ice time.

I just didn't realize the 2 situations were honestly as close as I remembered.
3 posts in a row! whoohoo. You make a good point. I think bachman is ahead but who knows how large the gap is at this point. The Stars clearly prefer larger goalies at this point so many bachman never really gets a shot. It would be kind of funny of none of bachman besko and campbell ever becomes our number one.

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07-13-2011, 09:55 PM
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I'll go with Reilly Smith right now I guess mainly because I've watched him more than anyone else on the list, and I get excited watching him play. Of the next 5 I'll go with, I don't think he's as safe a pick as Vincour, Nemeth, or Bachman to make the NHL. I'm pretty confident those three will have some level of a career in the NHL. I think he and Klingberg are neck and neck with who has the best opportunity to make the most significant impact in the NHL assuming they reach that point, but I think Klingberg is probably a bigger wild card to reach his potential than Smith.

I think I'll probably end up going Smith, Nemeth, Bachman, Vincour, and then Klingberg as my order for picks 6-10 ... but I'm not 100% locked in. Regardless, I imagine Bachman wins this round anyway which will allow me to vote for Smith again.

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07-13-2011, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I'll go with Reilly Smith right now I guess mainly because I've watched him more than anyone else on the list, and I get excited watching him play. Of the next 5 I'll go with, I don't think he's as safe a pick as Vincour, Nemeth, or Bachman to make the NHL. I'm pretty confident those three will have some level of a career in the NHL. I think he and Klingberg are neck and neck with who has the best opportunity to make the most significant impact in the NHL assuming they reach that point, but I think Klingberg is probably a bigger wild card to reach his potential than Smith.

I think I'll probably end up going Smith, Nemeth, Bachman, Vincour, and then Klingberg as my order for picks 6-10 ... but I'm not 100% locked in. Regardless, I imagine Bachman wins this round anyway which will allow me to vote for Smith again.
so im guessing richie is a lock for 11 or is that besko?

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07-13-2011, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
3 posts in a row! whoohoo.
Quantity over quality ... that's what I always say.

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It would be kind of funny of pretty devastating if none of bachman besko and campbell ever becomes our number one.
2 out of 3 years you use your very first pick (even if one was a late 2nd) on a goalie, you better get a number one. If Dallas continually fails drafting, I question their ability (even with a new owner) to compete with the big boys in free agency. I don't know that they can hang with these nutzo front-loaded deals. Hopefully the new CBA can level the playing field. That applies to all positions though.

It's clearly irrational to believe all of these guys will hit their potential, but the team needs a good chunk of guys to excel.

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07-13-2011, 10:08 PM
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so im guessing richie is a lock for 11 or is that besko?
IDK ... but like I already mentioned, it's great that a guy like Ritchie probably isn't a Top 10 prospect at this point.

I haven't put a ton of time into it, but I think Besko, Dillon, and Ritchie have to at least be considered at 11.

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07-13-2011, 10:30 PM
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IDK ... but like I already mentioned, it's great that a guy like Ritchie probably isn't a Top 10 prospect at this point.

I haven't put a ton of time into it, but I think Besko, Dillon, and Ritchie have to at least be considered at 11.
i think the 5 we have so far are clearly the top 5. The next 7 or so IMO is pretty much a tossup. You can make a case for any of them being 6th or 12th.

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07-13-2011, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
3 posts in a row! whoohoo. You make a good point. I think bachman is ahead but who knows how large the gap is at this point. The Stars clearly prefer larger goalies at this point so many bachman never really gets a shot. It would be kind of funny of none of bachman besko and campbell ever becomes our number one.
Funny? I guess, but it be more disappointing if you ask me. I think 2 of the 3 could be starters in the NHL in the future

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07-13-2011, 10:49 PM
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Funny? I guess, but it be more disappointing if you ask me. I think 2 of the 3 could be starters in the NHL in the future
not haha funny funny sad mmhmm

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07-13-2011, 11:06 PM
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I put up Dillon, I think he's close to NHL ready and will be seeing time on the big club as early as this year.

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07-13-2011, 11:09 PM
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I considered Ritchie at this spot, but went with Reilly Smith.
Bachman I think at best he'll have to hope for a platoon role somewhere.

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07-13-2011, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
They're on the same path, posting similar numbers, and Besko is doing it at 20 instead of 22.
It's worth pointing out that Bachman was dominating the NCAA in some pretty high pressure situations at the age of 20.

Smith and Ellis I always viewed as contemporaries, only one of whom was going to survive. I just don't feel that way about these two. There's a gap. It's not a big one, but it's there.

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07-14-2011, 12:27 AM
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gotta go with Nemeth
Bachman, I see as trade bait, he just does not seem to fit in with the organizations plans. ( ie. he's just to small) His exceptional talent has value, just not as much in Dallas.
R. Smith has one year of showing great potential and I hope he follows it up with another great year, But Nemeth has proven more so far in his career. Just gotta give him the edge.

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07-14-2011, 04:36 AM
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I'll go with Vincour, can't vote though.

I admit that I can't say much about North American Junior/College players as I've never seen them play, only heard stories.
It's very difficult as there is no precise explanation on how this ranking is structured. Short-term impact on Stars (Vincour has already played many games in NHL, some of them pretty impressive, why put him lower in the rankings compared to some Junior players whose potential remains to be seen?) against long-term future prospects (high potential, high draft picks but no idea if they can ever reach their potential).

Personally I would prefer the guys who have already showed their skills in better leagues such as the AHL & our Swedes in Europe's Elite Leagues. I'd wait one more year and see how players like Ritchie or Smith have improved, before putting them ahead of guys who have already played pro.

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