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08-07-2015, 03:22 PM
  #1
BadFella
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NJ.com hockey fan map

Didn't see this posted, apologies if there WAS a thread about it, since it's from June, but I couldn't find one.

NJ.com (the Star-Ledger) created an interactive fan map based on about 100,000 respondents and I was surprised to see just how popular we were throughout NJ, especially South Jersey, where we're allegedly neck-and-neck with the Flyers in Atlantic and Cape May, even beating Philly in Wildwood and Atlantic City.

http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/in...rder_batt.html

I've been saying for a long time, here and elsewhere, that the Devils should be more aggressive in SJ, and consider moving the Albany Devils to AC (without even needing to change the jerseys). These figures back me up with the theory that there is a strong base down there for the Devils if they want it.

I think the Rags fans are under-reported a bit, but I could be wrong.

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08-07-2015, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BadFella View Post
Didn't see this posted, apologies if there WAS a thread about it, since it's from June, but I couldn't find one.

NJ.com (the Star-Ledger) created an interactive fan map based on about 100,000 respondents and I was surprised to see just how popular we were throughout NJ, especially South Jersey, where we're allegedly neck-and-neck with the Flyers in Atlantic and Cape May, even beating Philly in Wildwood and Atlantic City.

http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/in...rder_batt.html

I've been saying for a long time, here and elsewhere, that the Devils should be more aggressive in SJ, and consider moving the Albany Devils to AC (without even needing to change the jerseys). These figures back me up with the theory that there is a strong base down there for the Devils if they want it.

I think the Rags fans are under-reported a bit, but I could be wrong.
I would say that's pretty accurate.

Devils have a pretty solid grip in Central Jersey although there is a good amount of Rangers fans here as well. As you move South, it becomes heavily Philly dominated and as you get closer to New York, you encounter more Rangers fans.

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08-07-2015, 03:37 PM
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I would say that's pretty accurate.

Devils have a pretty solid grip in Central Jersey although there is a good amount of Rangers fans here as well. As you move South, it becomes heavily Philly dominated and as you get closer to New York, you encounter more Rangers fans.
Depends on how NY your family is. In Mercer is split between Flyers/Devils for hockey but most natives to the county and scions of Trenton tend to be more Philly driven.

Union County to me seems more Rangers Driven or at least as popular.

The map is a bit flawed, you can tell by the lack of response overall to Flyers fans.

Lest we forget people's migration patterns as well. I see alot more Yankees/Rangers/Knicks/Giants/Jets in South Jersey than anything else.

Hockey is really a step child type fanbase. I see some Devils fans, but Flyers just dominate.

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08-07-2015, 03:53 PM
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Depends on how NY your family is. In Mercer is split between Flyers/Devils for hockey but most natives to the county and scions of Trenton tend to be more Philly driven.
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Originally Posted by GhostofKenKlee View Post
Hockey is really a step child type fanbase. I see some Devils fans, but Flyers just dominate.


I'd say that Mercer County is really two counties with a clear border in the center, when it comes to the Philly vs. New York/North Jersey fan loyalties. Princeton, Robbinsville, the Windsors, etc. are Devils Country, whereas Hamilton et al. are heavily pro-Flyers.

Some border towns (like Lawrenceville and Robbinsville) are more mixed than the others.

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Originally Posted by GhostofKenKlee View Post
The map is a bit flawed, you can tell by the lack of response overall to Flyers fans.
Because South Jersey is less populated than North+Central.

~3.5 million people live in North Jersey
~3.5 million people live in Central Jersey
~2.5 million people live in South Jersey (and that's including 600k people in Ocean County, which is arguably Central Jersey and full of Devils and Rangers fans)
~9 million people live in New Jersey

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08-07-2015, 03:56 PM
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don't dismiss that nj.com doesn't really cover the most populated counties with a affliate paper in sj. Burlington and CC are covered by papers that are more philly driven content so alot of readership chances are missed.

this was a reader participated survey.

JVB paid a political pollster to do a report, it's out there somewhere in the universe.

Devils will never be popular "statewide" because of media markets and the lack of tv content outside of public tv and news12 that is jersey based. If they did pay the Flyers/Islanders/Rangers money upon moving into market, they have been leaving alot of money on the table all these years by not monitizing the asset statewide.

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08-07-2015, 04:01 PM
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Devils will never be popular "statewide" because of media markets and the lack of tv content outside of public tv and news12 that is jersey based.
Not to mention most of New Jersey is Comcast Country.



My cousin couldn't get Devils games for a while because he was considered to be living in the Philly market and Comcast, who own the Flyers, didn't bother giving him MSG+, which is owned by Cablevision/the Rangers.

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08-07-2015, 04:04 PM
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Harris and Blitzer need to figure out a way to fully use the Devils since they did pay the terroritory fee to three franchises. It's silly you can watch the Devils in NY, but can't in certain parts of the state...

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08-07-2015, 04:15 PM
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Yep. Living in Brooklyn and Staten Island I've never missed a Devils game due to television restrictions.

Living in Central Jersey, even with FIOS, sometimes the Devils would wind up on MSG+2 and I couldn't watch in HD, but I could watch the Knicks, Rangers and Islanders in HD. In New Jersey. Something's wrong with that scenario.

MSG carries Sabres games in Upstate NY but not in NYC and Jersey so it's not as though they can't switch feeds based on your location.

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08-07-2015, 04:23 PM
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There are definitely tons of fans for the flyers (or anything philly) in south jersey. I'm guessing a lot never hopped in to vote because it's nj.com and all the philadelphia faithful (whether in nj or not) look down their noses at the devils so they'd never be privy to the poll nor have the app installed. Plus the market proximity thing mentioned earlier cannot be stressed enough. I never ever see a devs jersey unless I'm headed to the rock for a game, and only then on the train or turnpike. I'd probably get spit on or stabbed for wearing #4 in some of the bars in my own state!

I do find flyers fans around me can be particularly dismissive of the devs, which is quite the haughty attitude considering that 40 year drought they'd rather not talk about. Not to mention sometimes finding themselves on the wrong side of history vs. devs in playoffs. Which reminds me of a particularly amusing event last season...I was over a house of a friend who is a flyers fan. As such he also despises the pens, and has always disliked jagr by association...and probably more so since he made his rounds with the devs too. Anyway I just happened to be at his place to watch that game where jagr had a hat trick last season, january was it? I played the humble guest all night by not rubbing it in but I was cracking up inside at not only the decisive loss, but that a player he's always disliked notched a hat trick on his boys...and at that age no less! I gave him a sort of passive ribbing over it by talking about how awful the devs were last season and how they've struggled a great deal. Meanwhile...3-0 lead over flyers in first period, he was visibly disgusted.

But yeah that flyers count is grossly understated for sure.

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08-07-2015, 04:51 PM
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Sascha Goc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadFella View Post
Didn't see this posted, apologies if there WAS a thread about it, since it's from June, but I couldn't find one.

NJ.com (the Star-Ledger) created an interactive fan map based on about 100,000 respondents and I was surprised to see just how popular we were throughout NJ, especially South Jersey, where we're allegedly neck-and-neck with the Flyers in Atlantic and Cape May, even beating Philly in Wildwood and Atlantic City.

http://www.nj.com/sports/njsports/in...rder_batt.html

I've been saying for a long time, here and elsewhere, that the Devils should be more aggressive in SJ, and consider moving the Albany Devils to AC (without even needing to change the jerseys). These figures back me up with the theory that there is a strong base down there for the Devils if they want it.

I think the Rags fans are under-reported a bit, but I could be wrong.
I posted this in the Prudential Center forum a couple months back (keep in mind I'm also an extremely positive fan) marketing in south jersey is a lost cause. I just graduated from Rowan U in Glassboro in Gloucester county right by Philly. They LOVE the Flyers down there, I was down there during the 2010 Cup Final run for them and they were probably on par with the Eagles in terms of popularity. You may see some Devils fans here and there, I do know a family or two that live in South Jersey and are Devil fans, but the team is better off pushing the marketing in Central and North Jersey. Once you get to exit 5/6 on the NJTP... its VAST majority Philly fans, it's not even like up here in Bergen/Hudson where its basically an even split Devils/Rangers.

The map is very misrepresentative of the non-Devils fanbase in NJ.

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08-07-2015, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by GhostofKenKlee View Post
Depends on how NY your family is. In Mercer is split between Flyers/Devils for hockey but most natives to the county and scions of Trenton tend to be more Philly driven.

Union County to me seems more Rangers Driven or at least as popular.

The map is a bit flawed, you can tell by the lack of response overall to Flyers fans.

Lest we forget people's migration patterns as well. I see alot more Yankees/Rangers/Knicks/Giants/Jets in South Jersey than anything else.

Hockey is really a step child type fanbase. I see some Devils fans, but Flyers just dominate.
My girlfriend lives in Union County, it's a very big Devils area. Obviously you see Ranger gear now because they are winning but it's definitely majority Devils fans. In 2012 the flags were everywhere.

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08-07-2015, 04:56 PM
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My cousin went to Rowan and I hung out there quite a bit back when he was living on campus. You're 100% right. That area is way too close to Philly. I was referring more to Ocean/Atlantic/Cape May. The Delaware Valley is a lost cause, yeah.

I've been to a few concerts in Camden and one time someone made the mistake of thinking because it was New Jersey, it was still an extension of New York. Huge mistake. Their own fans booed pretty loudly.

In AC, there's going to be a lot of New Yorkers and people from North/Central New Jersey any given day, hardly just local yokels and Philth.

At the end of the day, even from Cape May you can take the GSP and get to Newark with minimal effort. It just takes a while. Takes almost as long to get to a Flyer game (a half hour difference).


Last edited by BadFella: 08-07-2015 at 05:01 PM.
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08-07-2015, 08:14 PM
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Always see Devils fans when in AC.

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08-07-2015, 10:52 PM
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What's the deal with Sussex County? Is it a TV coverage thing? Maybe just small sample size?

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08-07-2015, 11:16 PM
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I grew up in Cape May County. To get to the Prudential Center I would drive to Metro Park and take the train and it takes 2.5-3 hours. To get to Philly it takes about 1.25 hours.

There are a few Devils fans around CMC, but mostly Flyers fans. I wish I didn't have to pay to watch Devils games while living in the same state as the team.

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08-07-2015, 11:21 PM
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I grew up in Cape May County. To get to the Prudential Center I would drive to Metro Park and take the train and it takes 2.5-3 hours. To get to Philly it takes about 1.25 hours.

There are a few Devils fans around CMC, but mostly Flyers fans. I wish I didn't have to pay to watch Devils games while living in the same state as the team.
That really is nuts.

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08-08-2015, 06:42 AM
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What's the deal with Sussex County? Is it a TV coverage thing? Maybe just small sample size?
The map has little to no validity.
There was no limits to how many times or towns one can vote.

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08-08-2015, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by GhostofKenKlee View Post
don't dismiss that nj.com doesn't really cover the most populated counties with a affliate paper in sj. Burlington and CC are covered by papers that are more philly driven content so alot of readership chances are missed.

this was a reader participated survey.

JVB paid a political pollster to do a report, it's out there somewhere in the universe.

Devils will never be popular "statewide" because of media markets and the lack of tv content outside of public tv and news12 that is jersey based. If they did pay the Flyers/Islanders/Rangers money upon moving into market, they have been leaving alot of money on the table all these years by not monitizing the asset statewide.
Devils games should be available on cable in every home in the state.
It's a small state geographically.

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08-08-2015, 12:14 PM
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I grew up in Barnegat (the lowest dark red town in Ocean County on the map)

That town is the actual border to NY/Philly TV rights. Growing up, we had all sports channels, NY and Philly alike (Also two NBC/ABC/CBS/FOX channels). But now in Barnegat they've slowly filtered out the Philly channels. Directly to the south in Stafford, they've slowly filtered out NYC channels.

I would have guessed a 35/35/30 split for NJ/NY/PHL in my town, but looks like some Devils fans knew about the poll. I haven't lived there in a while though and didn't even know about the poll myself til I saw this thread today.

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08-08-2015, 02:01 PM
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My cousin went to Rowan and I hung out there quite a bit back when he was living on campus. You're 100% right. That area is way too close to Philly. I was referring more to Ocean/Atlantic/Cape May. The Delaware Valley is a lost cause, yeah.

I've been to a few concerts in Camden and one time someone made the mistake of thinking because it was New Jersey, it was still an extension of New York. Huge mistake. Their own fans booed pretty loudly.

In AC, there's going to be a lot of New Yorkers and people from North/Central New Jersey any given day, hardly just local yokels and Philth.

At the end of the day, even from Cape May you can take the GSP and get to Newark with minimal effort. It just takes a while. Takes almost as long to get to a Flyer game (a half hour difference).
Ah ok, this I agree with, there are enough transplants in the shore area to convert to Devils fans. I do think Atlantic City is open game and I think it would be smart to move the A-Devils down there to Boardwalk Hall.

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08-08-2015, 05:09 PM
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I am sorry but what does this map matter. It's about who buys season tickets. Those of us that watch on TV give zero revenue to the team. Those of us that attend 4 or 5 games a season help a little but not worth considering. We could have a map with 100% Devils fans but if they don't finally support the team by being at the games it doesn't matter.

With the Islander moving to Brooklyn the competition for season ticket holder becomes tight and considering the Devils are going to have a tough two years it will be a struggle to main the base but with a new marketing team under Shero that could make the difference.

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08-08-2015, 05:30 PM
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I am sorry but what does this map matter. It's about who buys season tickets. Those of us that watch on TV give zero revenue to the team. Those of us that attend 4 or 5 games a season help a little but not worth considering. We could have a map with 100% Devils fans but if they don't finally support the team by being at the games it doesn't matter.
TV numbers determine our tv contract as well as the going rate for commercials during the game. So zero revenue is patently false

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08-09-2015, 12:44 AM
  #23
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I'm surprised at there being a huge Devils fan contingent in Atlantic and Cape May Counties, beating out the Flyers in some spots. There's no Devils games broadcast locally in those areas, or at least not to my knowledge. It's all Flyers and Philly market I believe.

Now I know in Monmouth and Ocean Counties, locally all the MSG's and Comcast Philly are provided as local channels. I'm assuming it's the same in Trenton and Mercer County area, perhaps even Burlington County as well?

People I know in the Wall, Howell, Toms River, Belmar, Manasquan, Point Pleasant, Seaside Heights/Park, Forked River, Stafford, Barnegat, LBI, all get the Rangers/Islanders/Devils broadcasts on MSG (along with YES, SNY, New York City teams) as well as the Flyers and Philly teams with their standard cable packages. Those areas are kind of in between New York City and Philadelphia, right in the middle. Whereas the Atlantic City/Cape May area is a hell of a lot closer to Philly than New York City.

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08-09-2015, 01:14 AM
  #24
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I'm surprised at there being a huge Devils fan contingent in Atlantic and Cape May Counties, beating out the Flyers in some spots. There's no Devils games broadcast locally in those areas, or at least not to my knowledge. It's all Flyers and Philly market I believe.

Now I know in Monmouth and Ocean Counties, locally all the MSG's and Comcast Philly are provided as local channels. I'm assuming it's the same in Trenton and Mercer County area, perhaps even Burlington County as well?

People I know in the Wall, Howell, Toms River, Belmar, Manasquan, Point Pleasant, Seaside Heights/Park, Forked River, Stafford, Barnegat, LBI, all get the Rangers/Islanders/Devils broadcasts on MSG (along with YES, SNY, New York City teams) as well as the Flyers and Philly teams with their standard cable packages. Those areas are kind of in between New York City and Philadelphia, right in the middle. Whereas the Atlantic City/Cape May area is a hell of a lot closer to Philly than New York City.
Howell, like all of Monmouth County, get New York channels.

Speaking as someone who's lived in Mercer County, it's a bit more complicated. Comcast moved all of the New York local channels to very high numbers and considers the county to be primarily Philly market, but they still have MSG, MSG+, SNY, YES, etc.

When I had Comcast, they didn't have MSG2/MSG+2 though. If the Knicks and Rangers were playing at the same time, or all three hockey teams, it wasn't going to be pretty for either Islanders or Devils fans.

It wasn't always like that with Comcast. When I first had Comcast, 2/4/5/7/9/11/13 were on their regular NY channel numbers, but then Comcast decided to put like, QVC on channel 2, and crazy sh-- like that.

FIOS treats the area like the New York market.

Can't speak for DirecTV, and only had DISH Network for a little while, but satellite's always been pretty good for out-of-market sports.


Last edited by BadFella: 08-09-2015 at 01:20 AM.
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08-09-2015, 09:11 AM
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Now I know in Monmouth and Ocean Counties, locally all the MSG's and Comcast Philly are provided as local channels. I'm assuming it's the same in Trenton and Mercer County area, perhaps even Burlington County as well?

People I know in the Wall, Howell, Toms River, Belmar, Manasquan, Point Pleasant, Seaside Heights/Park, Forked River, Stafford, Barnegat, LBI, all get the Rangers/Islanders/Devils broadcasts on MSG (along with YES, SNY, New York City teams) as well as the Flyers and Philly teams with their standard cable packages. Those areas are kind of in between New York City and Philadelphia, right in the middle. Whereas the Atlantic City/Cape May area is a hell of a lot closer to Philly than New York City.
The only Phila TV I get from Cablevision are the SD Channels of NBC, ABC, FOX and whatever the hell channel 17 is. No sports channels at all. I live in Ocean Twp., Monmouth County. We are a NY TV region, through and through.

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